Gospels and Shiite hadiths match up.

Brian2 said:

This seems to have nothing to do with my quote of Colossians 2:8-10.

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That’s because all you are trying to do is quote random verses hoping to wriggle serpent-like out of the truth that is being shown to you.

It has already been pointed out to you that the fullness of God (His spirit in wholeness) filled Jesus at his anointing. The verse simply qualifies what I already showed you.

And the rest of what you quoted is an attempt to use a positive to override a truth. It is indeed to be wary of those who try to sway away believers from the truth… it doesn’t prove or say anything against me - in fact it is just a reminder, a strengthened, in my belief… sorry, but all you did was backfire against yourself…

Nevertheless Jesus was the Christ, anointed and sent by God to earth. He was also anointed with the Holy Spirit as His baptism to start His ministry for which God had sent Him.

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That is so muddled… Desperation is muffling you’d timeline…!!

Check over what you wrote and see where you erred!! A truth speaker does not err since they would see that there is untruth in what they are writing. But a desperate unbeliever will write in desperation not caring whether what they write is true - kneejerkjng is very bad!!

As a baby Jesus was the Christ whom Simeon saw.

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What does ‘Christ’ mean?

When did Jesus become ‘Christ’? (Use the definition and meaning of ‘Christ’ in your response.)

Luke 2:25 Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was on him. 26 It had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not die before he had seen the Lord’s Messiah. 27 Moved by the Spirit, he went into the temple courts. When the parents brought in the child Jesus to do for him what the custom of the Law required, 28 Simeon took him in his arms and praised God, saying:
29 “Sovereign Lord, as you have promised,
you may now dismiss your servant in peace.

Jesus was also the Son of God and was that also when He was with the Father at the creation.
Hebrews 1:1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

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Jesus is MAN. A human Being.

• ‘You made them a little lower than the angels; you crowned them with glory and honor’ (Heb 2:7)

Being made lower than the angels until he accomplished his task confirms the verses you quoted:

• “After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.[/QUOTE]

He ‘BECAME’ superior to the angels…

Prior to that Jesus always referred to the angels as property of his Father whom the Father would send to help him:

• “Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?” (Matt 26:53)

After Jesus ascends to Heaven he acquires that which the Father has: he takes over ownership (albeit temporarily!!!!) of the angels!

Soapy said:

What has nature got to do with equality?

The work Jesus has done is that which the Father EMPOWERED him to do. Jesus’ ability to perform the work that God gave him to do is because God ‘put his spirit on him’:

• “Behold, My Servant, whom I uphold; My Chosen One in whom My soul delights. I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the nations...” (Isaiah 42:1)

Brian2, how can you read this verse and claim against the truth spoken by God and the true apostles:

• “You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached—how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.“ (Acts 10:37-38)

Brian2… GOD anointed Jesus with His spirit. Being anointed with the spirit of God, the verse says, gave Jesus the power to do God’s work. Oh, isn’t that the same as what GOD Himself says in Isaiah 42:1?

And, again, Isaiah 42:1 shows Jesus as being ‘the SERVANT of God… GOD is not a servant…. But you keep calling Jesus ‘GOD’ …almighty God.

You say the prince is the same as the king… really?

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If I am a man only then I have the nature of a man and am equal in nature to all men.
If I am the begotten Son of God then I have the nature of God and am equal in nature to God.
Jesus also is equal in other ways also, as He is the image of His Father and has the same glory and name etc (Heb 1:1-4)
Jesus humbled Himself and became a servant and a man and left His Godly attributes out of things when on earth and acted like all other men except He did not sin, and He needed God's Holy Spirit to accomplish His ministry of preaching and miracles etc.
Jesus tells us that the greatest in heaven is the servant of all. How is it that you say that God is not a servant?

Soapy said:

That which Jesus has is GRANTED to him AFTER he has accomplished what the Father endowed him with power to do! He did not have that which the Father granted him BEFORE he accomplished.

But, of course you missed out the part where Jesus

• “My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all…” (John 10:29)
• “My Father is greater than I” (John 14:28)

The Father is King; the Son is Prince: Jesus says that the King is greater than the Prince!

Are we to believe you, or Jesus?

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While a man on earth Jesus said that He owns all that the Father has. John 16:15
He owned this before He came to earth also but is like His Father and so humbled Himself and came and did not demand all that was rightly His, equality. Jesus became a servant and obeyed till death and the His Father exalted Him and gave Him His inheritance which was rightly His all along including worship from everyone (see Phil 2:5-11)
While Jesus was on earth the Father was greater than Him in position and authority. Jesus was the servant of God. The Father was not "better" in nature however because even while having the nature of a servant the Son also has the nature of His Father.

Soapy said:

Do you not read scriptures and understand?…
What if the prince regent carries out a crime worthy of death… would he still accede in-line to the throne? No! Absolutely not!!

So, knowing your scriptures: who is the ‘Father of all humanity’? No, not the creator, God, but the one from whom all OTHER humans came…?

Adam.

So Adam WAS, in the day of his creation, holy, sinless, and righteous. He initially carried our all the work God gave him to do …. A perfect SON OF GOD in the flesh - the very image of God! (‘In [God’s] image he created [him]’).

But the PRINCE committed a heinous crime and brought doom on mankind by sinning and disobeying his spiritual Father, YHWH.

Yes, Brian2, the prince regent (Adam) was removed from his position, and…. guess what…?

A second holy, sinless, and righteous man was created in the image of God…. A ‘SECOND ADAM’, indeed, the ‘LAST ADAM’… Jesus, anointed Christ when he proved to be a perfect Son to God:

• “And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” (Matt 3:17)

Isn’t that what God prophesied in Isaiah 42:1?

((If prince Andrew was regent and committed the unadmitted crimes reported, would he still be crowned King, today? Indeed, who would accept him?))

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Jesus was there at creation and doing the creating of ALL things in heaven and on earth, invisible and visible, alongside His Father. You should read the scriptures.
The plan of salvation was made before the earth was created. You should read the scriptures.
This mediator of the new covenant is the perfect mediator between God and men because He is both God and man.
This Christ becomes King over the Kingdom and the whole of creation, just as the scriptures tell us. (Ezek 37:24, Rev 3:14)
Zech 14:9 On that day the LORD will become King over all the earth— the LORD alone, and His name alone.
This Christ is going to come and judge the earth and the Father will not be doing any judging. The Old Testament tells us that YHWH is going to come and judge the earth. (John 5, Psalm 98:9, Psalm 96:13)

Brian2 said:

If I am a man only then I have the nature of a man and am equal in nature to all men.
If I am the begotten Son of God then I have the nature of God and am equal in nature to God.
Jesus also is equal in other ways also, as He is the image of His Father and has the same glory and name etc (Heb 1:1-4)
Jesus humbled Himself and became a servant and a man and left His Godly attributes out of things when on earth and acted like all other men except He did not sin, and He needed God's Holy Spirit to accomplish His ministry of preaching and miracles etc.
Jesus tells us that the greatest in heaven is the servant of all. How is it that you say that God is not a servant?



While a man on earth Jesus said that He owns all that the Father has. John 16:15
He owned this before He came to earth also but is like His Father and so humbled Himself and came and did not demand all that was rightly His, equality. Jesus became a servant and obeyed till death and the His Father exalted Him and gave Him His inheritance which was rightly His all along including worship from everyone (see Phil 2:5-11)
While Jesus was on earth the Father was greater than Him in position and authority. Jesus was the servant of God. The Father was not "better" in nature however because even while having the nature of a servant the Son also has the nature of His Father.



Jesus was there at creation and doing the creating of ALL things in heaven and on earth, invisible and visible, alongside His Father. You should read the scriptures.
The plan of salvation was made before the earth was created. You should read the scriptures.
This mediator of the new covenant is the perfect mediator between God and men because He is both God and man.
This Christ becomes King over the Kingdom and the whole of creation, just as the scriptures tell us. (Ezek 37:24, Rev 3:14)
Zech 14:9 On that day the LORD will become King over all the earth— the LORD alone, and His name alone.
This Christ is going to come and judge the earth and the Father will not be doing any judging. The Old Testament tells us that YHWH is going to come and judge the earth. (John 5, Psalm 98:9, Psalm 96:13)

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You are so confused that the truth brings tears to your eyes blinding you even further.

Virtually all that you said is so incredibly incorrect that responding to them would create even longer post than I’ve already shown you.

But in truth, I detect that you already know you are in error. What you are trying to do is to get me to be angry and post something incorrect. No sir!

As I said, you know you are in error - serious error. I have shown you many answers to your circular arguments and that you don’t employ feedback on your views simply because doing something would expose to the whole forum readers the grave misreading that you present.

Brian2 said:

If I am the begotten Son of God then I have the nature of God and am equal in nature to God.

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Brian lets clarify things. Are you in fact claiming that YOU are the begotten Son of God?

IndigoChild5559 said:

Brian lets clarify things. Are you in fact claiming that YOU are the begotten Son of God?

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No I was speaking of Jesus.
However I have been born of God and He has given me His Spirit. I am an adopted Son of God and through His Spirit I participate in/taste of the divine nature. (2Peter 1:3-4)

Brian2 said:

No I was speaking of Jesus.
However I have been born of God and He has given me His Spirit. I am an adopted Son of God and through His Spirit I participate in/taste of the divine nature. (2Peter 1:3-4)

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But Brian2, you must be God!!! You said yourself that Jesus is God because he has the same spirit as God… and now you have that same spirit, too…!

But if you are saying that you are not God despite having the Spirit of your God … the spirit of your Jesus … then maybe Jesus is not God despite having the spirit of his God!!

Hmmm… seems like a copy of Phil 2:

• ‘Though he had the spirit of God [Anointed with] he did not think that equality with God was a thing to grasp at [reach out and try to take hold of] !’

Soapy said:

But Brian2, you must be God!!! You said yourself that Jesus is God because he has the same spirit as God… and now you have that same spirit, too…!

But if you are saying that you are not God despite having the Spirit of your God … the spirit of your Jesus … then maybe Jesus is not God despite having the spirit of his God!!

Hmmm… seems like a copy of Phil 2:

• ‘Though he had the spirit of God [Anointed with] he did not think that equality with God was a thing to grasp at [reach out and try to take hold of] !’

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You misquoted Phil 2.
I quoted 1,000,001 scriptures that tells us that Jesus is God and I don't think any one of them says that He is God because He was given the Holy Spirit at His baptism.
I did say that there is one Spirit and so the Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit however.(Eph 4:4,Romans 8:9)

Brian2 said:

You misquoted Phil 2.
I quoted 1,000,001 scriptures that tells us that Jesus is God and I don't think any one of them says that He is God because He was given the Holy Spirit at His baptism.
I did say that there is one Spirit and so the Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit however.(Eph 4:4,Romans 8:9)

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Ah, Brian2, Brian2, Brian2, you really aren’t that clever…. 10,000,001 times would be better since not only is that amount a palindrome but it would be exactly divisible by 11…. Makes more sense than diatribe! And Maths is precise - unlike the very imprecise trinity garble!

No scripture does say that Jesus is God because he received the spirit of God [at his baptism]…. It is what YOU SAID or strongly implied.

And the spirit of Christ Jesus is not the Holy Spirit. It is AKIN TO the spirit of his Father, to His Holy Spirit

• ‘I and my Father are one [in agreement]’ means: ‘What he believes, I also believe.

Jesus has to consciously be in agreement to the spirit of his Father. Think about the night before Jesus was to die. He stumbled at the thought of what was to come… HIS SPIRIT was deeply troubled in him and he said:

• ‘Father, if there could be another way….!’

What do you think happened there?

But Jesus recovered himself, saying:

• ‘… yet NOT MY WAY but YOURS!’

Two spirits… Jesus’ and YHWH’s.

Each and everyone has ownership of ONE SPIRIT. That one spirit can be influenced by the spirit of someone else. But it does not mean that the first person has THE one SPIRIT as the other.

Jesus called some Jews, ‘Sons of [Satan]’. Why? Because they were influenced by the spirit of Satan… their own spirit was ‘Doing the works of their Father: He was a liar from the beginning…!’

But even so, ‘Satan’ means, ‘Opposer’. So these Jews were being ‘Opposers’ of truth; and their influence was the ‘Satan, the Father of the lie; the Angel who became fully associated with that title’.

In effect, then, each of those Jews was ‘Being A SATAN’ (Being an opposer’) … note carefully the singular ‘An’ indicating a personal affect. They were not each ‘The angel associated with that title’ but ones AKIN TO HIM.

Similarly, exactly in fact, Jesus is not ‘YHWH’ the God (title), associated with that title for the Israelites, Jews, and Christians, but one AKIN to YHWH.

Those whom the Holy Spirit of God anointed in that upper chamber in Jerusalem on that particular day became endowed with the spirit of YHWH. Thus they were able to perform miracles way beyond any normal humanBeing’s ability.

Having these abilities marked them out for attempted hero (God) worship… which is wrong. Paul and Barnabas (and doubtless the others, hopefully) refused such ceremonial worship pointing out that they were in fact just human like them.

You are no doubt going to claim Jesus was worshipped …. Oh dear… NO HE WAS NOT. Consider that the Jews were seeking ways to have Jesus killed…. Think about that….!!!

Since the Jews believed that only YHWH must be worshipped, what then if the disciples did actually ‘Worship’ Jesus in their sighting….!!!!

No, Brian2, OBEISANCE is perfectly legally performed to any dignitary… Bowing down to one such is not blasphemy! Point in case: Bathsheba is said to have ‘Worshipped’ King David at his bedside. Yet no one bats an eye at that. Why? Because it would be a nonsense!

No! Brian2, to greet your ‘master’, to show reverence to a judge, a monarch, a high priest, a Lord,…, is not ‘ceremonial’ WORSHIP… it is OBEISANCE. Please do not bring that ridiculous trinity-driven-deliberate-misunderstanding to the table unless you are absolutely desperate to attempt to uphold your fallacious belief… thank you.

Soapy said:

And the spirit of Christ Jesus is not the Holy Spirit. It is AKIN TO the spirit of his Father, to His Holy Spirit

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There is one Spirit and we have that one Spirit which is called the Spirit of God and also called the Spirit of Christ.

Soapy said:

Jesus has to consciously be in agreement to the spirit of his Father. Think about the night before Jesus was to die. He stumbled at the thought of what was to come… HIS SPIRIT was deeply troubled in him and he said:

• ‘Father, if there could be another way….!’

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Jesus was and lived as a man and was tempted to sin because of that, but did not, and wanted to live and not be tortured to death because of that, but did the Father's will.
Jesus was in the form of God (Phil 2) Two persons one form, and that form is Spirit, the Spirit of God.
Jesus became a man and had the spirit of a man and left His God attributes and power behind and did not use them as a man. The spirit of Jesus as a man was the same nature as the Spirit of God and when Jesus ascended He remained a man with a glorified resurrection body but also filled all things, the whole universe when His spirit was joined to the form He was before He became a man. He was on earth both God and man but now He has taken back His omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence also. (Eph 4:10)

Soapy said:

Two spirits… Jesus’ and YHWH’s.

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You should believe what the Bible says.

Soapy said:

Having these abilities marked them out for attempted hero (God) worship… which is wrong. Paul and Barnabas (and doubtless the others, hopefully) refused such ceremonial worship pointing out that they were in fact just human like them.

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Yes in the gospels most, if not all of those times that it says that Jesus was worshiped, it should be that people showed Him honor by bowing or kneeling imo.
But the angels were told to worship Jesus when He became a man. They no doubt did not realise what had happened and that the Son of God had become a man.

Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say: “You are My Son; today I have become Your Father”? Or again: “I will be His Father, and He will be My Son”? 6 And again, when God brings His firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all God’s angels worship Him.” 7 Now about the angels He says: “He makes His angels winds, His servants flames of fire."

The angel in Revelation did not accept John falling down to worship (Rev 19:10, Rev 22:9) but Jesus did accept this adulation from people however and some of it does appear to be worship. The disciples knew that being the Son of God was akin to being equal to God (in nature) and so in the below passage (and probably others) I would say they were worshiping Him. It was like Thomas acknowledging that Jesus was his Lord and God. (John 20:28)

Matt 28:31 Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?”
32 And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. 33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

Brian2 said:

There is one Spirit and we have that one Spirit which is called the Spirit of God and also called the Spirit of Christ.

Jesus was and lived as a man and was tempted to sin because of that, but did not, and wanted to live and not be tortured to death because of that, but did the Father's will.
Jesus was in the form of God (Phil 2) Two persons one form, and that form is Spirit, the Spirit of God.
Jesus became a man and had the spirit of a man and left His God attributes and power behind and did not use them as a man. The spirit of Jesus as a man was the same nature as the Spirit of God and when Jesus ascended He remained a man with a glorified resurrection body but also filled all things, the whole universe when His spirit was joined to the form He was before He became a man. He was on earth both God and man but now He has taken back His omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence also. (Eph 4:10)


You should believe what the Bible says.



Yes in the gospels most, if not all of those times that it says that Jesus was worshiped, it should be that people showed Him honor by bowing or kneeling imo.
But the angels were told to worship Jesus when He became a man. They no doubt did not realise what had happened and that the Son of God had become a man.

Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say: “You are My Son; today I have become Your Father”? Or again: “I will be His Father, and He will be My Son”? 6 And again, when God brings His firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all God’s angels worship Him.” 7 Now about the angels He says: “He makes His angels winds, His servants flames of fire."

The angel in Revelation did not accept John falling down to worship (Rev 19:10, Rev 22:9) but Jesus did accept this adulation from people however and some of it does appear to be worship. The disciples knew that being the Son of God was akin to being equal to God (in nature) and so in the below passage (and probably others) I would say they were worshiping Him. It was like Thomas acknowledging that Jesus was his Lord and God. (John 20:28)

Matt 28:31 Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?”
32 And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. 33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

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I see you are so confused that you really have no idea how many errors you just made ….

Oh, it’s sad but ‘Thank you’. Being challenged by your fallacy only makes my belief in trinity fallacy all the greater. You have shown that trinity fallacy belief is incredibly addictive to those who are caught in its web of lies. It brings credence to the prophecy of Revelation concerning the whore of Babylon.

IndigoChild5559 said:

Brian lets clarify things. Are you in fact claiming that YOU are the begotten Son of God?

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I believe that is an interesting question since that is usually referred to as Jesus. However Jesus is in born again believers so it would seem to me we have all the identifications that He has.

Muffled said:

I believe that is an interesting question since that is usually referred to as Jesus. However Jesus is in born again believers so it would seem to me we have all the identifications that He has.

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Sorry, but that is utterly illogical.

IndigoChild5559 said:

Sorry, but that is utterly illogical.

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I believe then you should show your reasoning. I am a past master at logic.

Muffled said:

I believe then you should show your reasoning. I am a past master at logic.

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Sure. and you are a concert pianist and a trapeze artist as well.

IndigoChild5559 said:

Sure. and you are a concert pianist and a trapeze artist as well.

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At the same time - don’t forget!!

I’ve seen her performance / it’s not much to write home about - kept getting her notes wrong!!

IndigoChild5559 said:

Sure. and you are a concert pianist and a trapeze artist as well.

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I believe that does not logically follow. A logical person is not necessarily a good pianist nor trapeze artist. From my experience pianists do well either by good instincts or memory to motor control. Trapeze artists seem the same to me. I never had a great memory nor did I have good motor control.

Soapy said:

At the same time - don’t forget!!

I’ve seen her performance / it’s not much to write home about - kept getting her notes wrong!!

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My wife used to say that I could not do two things at the same time. She was right. My mind had very good focus on the thing I was doing.

Muffled said:

My wife used to say that I could not do two things at the same time. She was right. My mind had very good focus on the thing I was doing.

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Sorry to be the one to infirm you but…. You aren’t even good at focussing on this ONE thing: Almighty God… one thing… not three!!!

There are many more parallels. I should continue this thread.

Link said:

This thread, I will be matching phrases from the Gospels with Shiite hadiths, in the sense Imams (a) say about themselves same thing Jesus (a) is quoted in the Gospels to emphasize on himself.

I will try to match up the phrases with hadiths and provide an explanation of what is meant from Shiite point of view, which differs from some or majority of Christians point of view.

As a clarification of why debate, we can debate which one is more rational.

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I believe it makes sense that fictional writing could reflect some things in the Bible.