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Is the biblical story of Noah’s Flood a true account?

Ciscokid

Well-Known Member
may said:
If we grant that a great flood could have happened, why have scientists found no trace of it? Perhaps they have, but they interpret the evidence some other way. For example, orthodox science teaches that the surface of the earth has been shaped in many places by powerful glaciers during a series of ice ages. But apparent evidence of glacial activity can sometimes be the result of water action. Very likely, then, some of the evidence for the Flood is being misread as evidence of an ice age.


You may have something here, perhaps you're right and all the scientists who have spent most of their lives studying these things are wrong.
 

Ciscokid

Well-Known Member
To those who believe the flood stories:

1. How did plants and trees survive this flood? How did the cactus survive?
2. What did the lions and tigers eat after disembarking the ark?
3. How did salt and fresh water fish survive with the mixing of the waters?
 

gnostic

The Lost One
For those creationists who think that of those abundance of evidences of marine fossils on the mountains had to do with Noah's Flood, then I would like to remind you all (literal creationists, IDs or whatever you call yourselves) that these evidences show that they have been fossilised scores of millions years ago (if not hundreds of millions years ago), not a little over 4000 years ago, the supposed time of Noah. So that's long before any flood of Noah's.
 

Free4all

It's all about the blood
Is there any scientific proof of the Great Flood?

Scientific proof of the Great Flood is elusive, not because there is not enough substantive evidence to prove its historicity beyond a reasonable doubt, but because much of the evidence is equivocal. That is, it can be reasonably interpreted in more than one way. “Proof” is evidence which demands a singular conclusion. Consequentially, we do not have scientific proof of the Great Flood per se. Rather we have a strong interdisciplinary scientific case for the Flood.


Did you read my post? If you did you will see that I answered over half of the problems he brought up. I have looked at the site 4 times, and I don't see any proof there. Why would you guys disbelieve something when there isn't any real proof against the flood? (Please read above before responding) You want to put the burden of proof on me, well I'll throw it back at ya - show me proof (real proof) that the flood did not take place and I'll eat my bible. (at least the flood part) :yes:
What makes your website anymore authoritive than mine?

BTW, I gave some reasons that support a global flood. For example, fossilized trees buried at all angles, upside-down and right-side-up, often passing through multiple rock layers, obviously the result of a marine cataclysm worldwide. ??????

References:
http://www.allaboutcreation.org
http://www.christiananswers.net


Gnostic,
For those creationists who think that of those abundance of evidences of marine fossils on the mountains had to do with Noah's Flood, then I would like to remind you all (literal creationists, IDs or whatever you call yourselves) that these evidences show that they have been fossilised scores of millions years ago (if not hundreds of millions years ago), not a little over 4000 years ago, the supposed time of Noah. So that's long before any flood of Noah's.
The earth wasn't created in Gen. 1:1, it was recreated. notice when he gets to grass, herb, fruit tree ... he says let the earth bring forth... and it was so. The seed was already here. Animals, humans... were created. this explains dinosaurs, ice-age ... and the possibility of pre-adamic man, but I digress.


CiscoKid,
To those who believe the flood stories:

1. How did plants and trees survive this flood? How did the cactus survive?
2. What did the lions and tigers eat after disembarking the ark?
3. How did salt and fresh water fish survive with the mixing of the waters?
1. The seed, I would think.
2. I don't know, maybe the Lord provided.
3. see 2


 

Bubber

Member
Free4all said:

2. I don't know, maybe the Lord provided.

And this, I am beginning to realize, is the crux of it. If there is an honest question about how something impossible could ever happen, then this is the answer you will invariably get. Thank you Free4all for opening all of our eyes to where this discussion will eventually lead. I believe I will now bow out as there is nothing that I can say in response to a statement like that.
 

may

Well-Known Member
Ciscokid said:
You may have something here, perhaps you're right and all the scientists who have spent most of their lives studying these things are wrong.
the trouble is , they believe something is true, until better understanding comes to light , and then they have to change their thinking . it is all trial and error in many cases
 

may

Well-Known Member
Flood Legends. Such a cataclysm as the Deluge, which washed the whole world of that time out of existence, would never be forgotten by the survivors. They would talk about it to their children and their children’s children. For 500 years after the Deluge, Shem lived on to relate the event to many generations. He died only ten years before the birth of Jacob. Moses preserved the true account in Genesis. Sometime after the Flood, when God-defying people built the Tower of Babel, Jehovah confused their language and scattered them "over all the surface of the earth." (Ge 11:9) It was only natural that these people took with them stories of the Flood and passed them on from father to son. The fact that there are not merely a few but perhaps hundreds of different stories about that great Deluge, and that such stories are found among the traditions of many primitive races the world over, is a strong proof that all these people had a common origin and that their early forefathers shared that Flood experience in common
 

may

Well-Known Member
As another example, consider the ark itself. The Bible describes a vessel about 437 feet long, with a length-to-height ratio of 10 to 1 and a length-to-width ratio of 6 to 1. (Genesis 6:15) Now, Noah was no shipbuilder. And remember, this was more than 4,000 years ago! Yet, the ark was built with proportions that were ideal for its function as a floating container. In fact, modern naval architects have found similar ratios suitable for structural integrity and stability on the open seas. Although the Bible does not specify the exact length of time Noah spent building the ark, the account allows for construction that took 50 or 60 years. (Genesis 5:32; 7:6) These factors stand in stark contrast with the well-known story found in the Babylonian Epic of Gilgamesh. The epic describes a massive, ungainly cube some 200 feet [60 m] on each side that was built in only seven days. Unlike that Babylonian legend, the Bible’s Deluge account engenders confidence in its accuracy.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
may said:
Flood Legends. Such a cataclysm as the Deluge, which washed the whole world of that time out of existence, would never be forgotten by the survivors. They would talk about it to their children and their children’s children. For 500 years after the Deluge, Shem lived on to relate the event to many generations. He died only ten years before the birth of Jacob.
I have calculated Shem dying 50 years (1658 BC) after the birth of Jacob and Esau (1602 BC), not 10 years before.

See Timeline of the Patriarchs.

It still doesn't changed the fact that the Noah's is to be calculated at the time of the Sumerian 3rd Dynasty (c. 2112–c. 2004 BC), which there was no record of any flood at that time, but the Sumerians do have record of oral tradition before even Noah's Flood (2104 BC), as well as poems written about Ziusudra (the Eridu Genesis) and Gilagamesh (Death of Gilagmesh) during that dynasty.

There is are even mention of Ziusudra, but not about the Flood, in the Instruction of Shurrppak (or Curuppag) to his son Ziusudra, written before even biblical Shem was born, in the pre-Sargonic period (c. 2334–c. 2154 BC).

If anyone is copying anyone then it is Moses copying the Babylonians, and the Babylonians got their flood story from the Sumerians. If Ziusudra lived before the Sargonic period, and there are records of this as well as oral tradition centuries before, then it stands to reason that Ziusudra predated centuries before Noah's flood.
 

may

Well-Known Member
gnostic said:
I have calculated Shem dying 50 years (1658 BC) after the birth of Jacob and Esau (1602 BC), not 10 years before.

quote]
Shem lived 500 years after fathering Arpachshad, dying at the age of 600 years. (Ge 11:10, 11) His death thus occurred some 13 years after the death of Sarah (1881 B.C.E.) and ten years after the marriage of Isaac and Rebekah (1878 B.C.E.).
Shem is stated to have fathered his first son, Arpachshad, two years after the Deluge (2368 B.C.E.) when he, Shem, was 100 years old. (Ge 11:10)
 

gnostic

The Lost One
I have based my calculation on the Jewish calendar, particular the Jewish Era. So today (year 2007), the Jewish Era would be the year 5767; in our time of 2000, it would be the year 5760 of the Jewish Era. This Jewish Era indicated that the Creation of the World and the Creation of Adam was 5767 years ago, ie 3767 BCE.

From the Jewish Era, I can work out when each patriarch was born and died, from Adam to Jacob, using the Genesis. That's how I calculated the timeline of the patriarchs, which you can find on my website Dark Mirrors of Heaven.

This how I calculated when the Flood happened, 2104 BCE, which is 1656 years after Adam's creation (Jewish Era or JE). Noah himself was born 1056 years after Adam's Creation (JE), thus he was born on 2704 BC. Since Noah was 502 when Shem was born (thus 1558 Jewish Era or 2202 BCE), 2 years after God's warning and instruction on building the Ark. Thus Shem was 98 at the time of Flood and 2 years later Arpachshad was born. So if Shem lived another 500 years as stated in 11:11, then his death would happen 2158 year in the Jewish calendar, ie 1602 BCE.

My calculation of Jacob's birth put him in 2108 Jewish Era, which is 1652 BCE, thus Shem's death happened after 50 years after Jacob's birth.

It stated that Sarah was 10 years younger than Abraham (born in 1948 JE or 1812 BCe), so she would have to born on 1958 JE or 1802 BCE. So if she died at age 127, it would be then 2085 JE or 1675 BCE, which is 23 years before Jacob was born.

Leaving out the BCE or JE (Jewish Era) for the moment, I think you did some miscalculation between Shem's birth to Jacob's birth.
 

uumckk16

Active Member

That the Flood did happen is seen in the fact that mankind never forgot it. All around the world, in locations as far apart as Alaska and the South Sea Islands, there are ancient stories about it. Native, pre-Columbian civilizations of America, as well as Aborigines of Australia, all have stories about the Flood. While some of the accounts differ in detail, the basic fact that the earth was flooded and only a few humans were saved in a man-made vessel comes through in nearly all versions. The only explanation for such a widespread acceptance is that the Flood was a historical event.

Er...where did the ancient stories come from, if everyone drowned?

Also, how do people who believe in a literal world-wide flood account for the fact that there isn't a huge gap in world populations of animals, plants, and people? If there was a big flood that wiped out everyone and everything, and all that was left was what was on Noah's ark, every single species would have had to repopulate the world for their species from just a few animals. Not only that, the populations would have to spread all the way to wherever they are now. This would take quite a long time and there would be a noticeable gap in the archaeological remains of human civilizations (say, in North America) as well as animal and plant populations. Yet there isn't one. :confused:
 

UnTheist

Well-Known Member

That the Flood did happen is seen in the fact that mankind never forgot it. All around the world, in locations as far apart as Alaska and the South Sea Islands, there are ancient stories about it. Native, pre-Columbian civilizations of America, as well as Aborigines of Australia, all have stories about the Flood. While some of the accounts differ in detail, the basic fact that the earth was flooded and only a few humans were saved in a man-made vessel comes through in nearly all versions. The only explanation for such a widespread acceptance is that the Flood was a historical event.
:no:
How could they have written about it if they all drowned?
 

Ernestine

Member
Noah's Ark and the flood is not a story--it is a retelling of an actual event. A television documentary recently scientifically proved that point. When Jesus was on earth he referenced the flood as a parallel to the attitude that people have today regarding the end of this system---they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away.
 

Free4all

It's all about the blood
Noah's Ark and the flood is not a story--it is a retelling of an actual event. A television documentary recently scientifically proved that point. When Jesus was on earth he referenced the flood as a parallel to the attitude that people have today regarding the end of this system---they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away.
Bravo, tell it like it is!
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
Noah's Ark and the flood is not a story--it is a retelling of an actual event. A television documentary recently scientifically proved that point. When Jesus was on earth he referenced the flood as a parallel to the attitude that people have today regarding the end of this system---they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away.

Right on, and there IS plenty of evidence for the flood, ifa person can humble themselves and take a look, plenty of good websites out there...
 

gnostic

The Lost One
If there are evidences of global flood that covered the earth then there wouldn't be a single fresh water lake and river anywhere in this world, even today. The sea water would have mixed with the rain water, and everything would have become salty. All the lands that became dry after such flood would have become salty and barren. Salt just doesn't just disappear in the water or in the soil.

So I would discount such evidence.

And Creationists who use the Black Sea as evidences for the biblical flood should realise that evidence of flooding here happened to far back in time for it to be the same one as that of Noah's flood.

As uumckk16, there are no archaeological break in civilisation in the time of Noah's Flood, which I have stated to happen in 2104 BCE, according to the Genesis and the Jewish calendar. See Dark Mirrors of Heaven, Timeline of Patriarchs.
 
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