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Harriet Hageman defeats Liz Cheney in Wyoming primary

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The simple fact that either you don't know about because either you get "bored" or because you don't get news from multiple sources, and that is that Trump had no right whatsoever to remove classified documents and bring them to Mar-a-Logo, especially the ones marked "Top Secret: SCI", which can only be opened in a closed and secured setting in the White House's special rooms in the basement.

So, instead of being "bored", maybe force yourself to investigate and read carefully from multiple sources because this is what educators are supposed to do.
Apparently you don’t know the definition of the word fact.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Time for...
R.aae3814a3c0634d5fcc1beb1e5bab15a
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Really? No measure at all? Not even simple honesty (you know, Trump never tells lies, right?)

I don't view those who propagated the lies of the Bush administration about Iraq and WMDs as "honest." That she's honest in one instance doesn't erase her record of being otherwise.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
I wonder why a few posters in this thread seem to be blaming Liz Cheney for the Iraq war. As I understand it, Congress had to grant Bush the authority to wage war, and forgive me if I'm incorrect, but I thought that took a majority of the House (then 435 voting members). Surely Liz couldn't have done it all on her own. So why does she alone earn your opprobrium?

Who said she alone does? I criticize others who voted for that war and/or promoted it, including Biden and Hillary Clinton. The focus of this thread is Liz Cheney, though, not any of the others who did similarly concerning the Iraq War.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
No I don't see it that way. Many people have made horrible decisions that cost lives because they believed that the decision was the right thing to do. You would say that one terrible decision means that as far as you are concerned the person is irretrievably evil. I don't agree.

The war itself was one thing. All the stupid decisions that followed us taking Saddam out is a much much bigger deal to me.

No, one terrible decision doesn't make someone irretrievably evil, but a terrible decision followed by a series of actions to promote and defend that decision puts a huge question mark on someone's moral integrity, empathy, and honesty.

People who have made decisions as terrible as Liz Cheney's don't simply get to say "oops!" and get away scot-free after contributing to half a million deaths. I view human life as far too valuable to allow that.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I don't view those who propagated the lies of the Bush administration about Iraq and WMDs as "honest." That she's honest in one instance doesn't erase her record of being otherwise.
You don't believe it possible that Cheney believed
Bush's representations about Iraq & WMDs?
Hillary apparently believed them, & voted for that
war too. Moreover, you were quite harsh to those
of us who voted for Trump in order to keep that war
monger out of office. And now, you oppose Trump's
strongest foe, thereby empowering him for another
run at the presidency.
I think you've some priorities to sort out & clarify.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
You don't believe it possible that Cheney believed
Bush's representations about Iraq & WMDs?

It is possible she did initially. Whether she still believed them later on when she was still endorsing the war is a different story.

Did she ever publicly acknowledge her mistake in voting for the war or apologize for it? Not that an apology would bring back the lost Iraqi lives, but it would still be better than nothing at all.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
It is possible she did initially. Whether she still believed them later on when she was still endorsing the war is a different story.

Did she ever publicly acknowledge her mistake in voting for the war or apologize for it? Not that an apology would bring back the lost Iraqi lives, but it would still be better than nothing at all.
Politicians generally don't admit mistakes or apologize.
(So that's a useless ad hoc standard for criticism.)
Although your alternative to Cheney, ie, Hageman did
admit her error of opposing Trump. She now fervently
supports him. And she was the alternative to Cheney.
Do you really believe that Hageman is the lesser of those
2 evils?
 
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