World Peace is Possible and Will Happen

Brickjectivity · Aug 14, 2022

QuestioningMind said:
Sure, we'll have a lot better chance of growing up and doing what we need to if we rely on superstition instead of logic, reason, and facts. It's settled... we're doomed.

Many things have been tried or are being tried as we speak, but humanity does not easily give up intuition and what we know to grasp new things with which we are unfamiliar, uncertain or which require effort to learn. That last piece (effort) is the most important one. Thermodynamics is against us and makes us sleepy or distracted when we are trying to study. It is the great satan of our age. Its also uncomfortable to put aside what is popular to do one's own thing.

CG Didymus · Aug 14, 2022

Shaul said:
World peace isn’t something that will happen externally. It is something that can be internally in anyone that chooses it at anytime.

Jews are probably used to this, some religion building off of their teachings and coming up with a new revelation. The Baha'is believe that now is the time for world unity. That each religion had teachings that has been guiding humanity towards this day... When all people can live as one.

Sounds great, but can their ideas to create a peaceful world work? Especially the one about all religions all recognizing the truth in all of the other religions. Is that possible?

CG Didymus · Aug 14, 2022

Heyo said:
They reserve the right to attack anyone and everyone if they so wish.

That's pretty important. It's tough to admit that in the U.S. our leaders did some things very, very wrong. Of course, for good reasons. But from the beginning, we killed and took whatever land we wanted. Our ancestors had no problem enslaving others. Depending on which side a person is on, they don't trust the political leaders of the other side. And we, supposedly, are one of the better, least corrupt nations?

That's my concern, why are our leaders going to be better in this future "peaceful" world? Then the nations are going to elect a world tribunal to run the world? That's giving a lot of power to just a few people. And their decisions are bound to upset somebody.

PearlSeeker · Aug 14, 2022

idea said:
I like the "by the people" system - individual leaders cannot be trusted, any government needs to be bottom up, by the people, not by the king, not by the pope, not by the prophet - by the people.

Dictatorship of people? Democratic system is not ruled by the masses. Everyone can not decide everything. People can vote for their representatives, demand something as a civil iniciative...

CG Didymus · Aug 14, 2022

soulsurvivor said:
That there will be eventually peace on Earth is absolutely true, but not quite the way the Bahai's expect. When the real Christ returns to Earth (which will be pretty soon), the conflicts based on religion will cease because everyone will follow the new Savior. And where there is conflict based on language and ethnicity, the Christ will mediate to create peace..Bahaullah's teachings are good, but they have not created peace yet and won't improve with time.

And that's the problem... you say the teachings are "good", but the teachings depend on people to implement them. Yeah, if God wants his plan to work, he better take the lead, or at least have his Messiah run things. To be fair to the Baha'is, they do have what they believe to be God's representatives on Earth, the Universal House of Justice.

And related to what you're saying, I've asked the Baha'is about when the Christ returns... before or after the tribulations? They have the Christ, their prophet, coming before the tribulations. And now, because their prophet was rejected, we are going to go through the tribulations. And it certainly looks like things are getting bad and could be getting even worse. Then, just before things get so bad that we can't stand it any longer, that's when we'll listen to the Baha'is and implement those teachings about building a peaceful world.

What I gather from Christianity is that the tribulations happen and then Christ returns... And he actually, fixes things... by killing all the evil people and casting Satan into an abyss and all that stuff.

Either way is fine with me, but the Baha'i way doesn't really need God to be involved. If those things are true, and we think they can work, we can put them into practice. But that's what I'm worried about... will they work?

soulsurvivor · Aug 14, 2022

CG Didymus said:
What I gather from Christianity is that the tribulations happen and then Christ returns... And he actually, fixes things... by killing all the evil people and casting Satan into an abyss and all that stuff.

Either way is fine with me, but the Baha'i way doesn't really need God to be involved. If those things are true, and we think they can work, we can put them into practice. But that's what I'm worried about... will they work?

I really doubt that the Christ will do any killing. He is not that kind of guy. Maybe he will just try convincing people (perform some miracles and such)

Humanity has tried bringing peace many times (League of Nations, UN etc) but hasn't quite worked. We thought war in Europe was over until Putin decided otherwise. So I don't think without the Christ's involvement, permanent peace will come. Bahai's believe that Bahaullah was the Christ, but he doesn't seem to have done either - removed evil people or convinced very many.

Heyo · Aug 14, 2022

soulsurvivor said:
That there will be eventually peace on Earth is absolutely true, but not quite the way the Bahai's expect. When the real Christ returns to Earth (which will be pretty soon), the conflicts based on religion will cease because everyone will follow the new Savior. And where there is conflict based on language and ethnicity, the Christ will mediate to create peace..Bahaullah's teachings are good, but they have not created peace yet and won't improve with time.

Not sure if you're a Poe or you really didn't catch the irony of your post.

You dis the Baha'is for failing to create peace for 150 years but expect Christ's return "real soon now" - which people expect since 2000 years and didn't happen yet.

CG Didymus · Aug 14, 2022

PearlSeeker said:
Dictatorship of people? Democratic system is not ruled by the masses. Everyone can not decide everything. People can vote for their representatives, demand something as a civil iniciative...

Yeah, like we're going to let the "masses" decide what's right. At best it's going to be whatever the majority wants, but it would probably be what the few charismatic people want, and the majority of the people will just follow along.

But I don't think representatives are any better. And that's what the Baha'i Faith does for National leaders and for their World leaders at their UHJ. And it's what they propose for the world tribunal.

In the U.S. we have what is supposed to be a system of checks and balances, but it's always getting out of balance. Right now the Supreme Court can make changes that go against the majority. But, at least the U.S. government tried.

What are the checks and balances in this world government that the Baha'is are saying is what is needed to bring peace and security to the world? Rich and powerful nations and people could easily manipulate who gets elected to this tribunal... and then bribe them once they are in. Then what are poor, small nations going to do?

idea · Aug 14, 2022

CG Didymus said:
I asked Baha'is about that. Is their God going to suddenly change the hearts and minds of people? Make them so loving and so unselfish that they won't want to or it will pain them so much to do wrong to others that they won't do it? Kind of like what happened to the guy in "A Clockwork Orange"?

But if this God can do that and will do that, why didn't he do it sooner? Or from the beginning?

I don't think peace would be able to come from any leader, seems like it needs to be created by each individual from within. Education, resources, environment helps quite a bit.

CG Didymus · Aug 14, 2022

soulsurvivor said:
I really doubt that the Christ will do any killing. He is not that kind of guy. Maybe he will just try convincing people (perform some miracles and such)

Humanity has tried bringing peace many times (League of Nations, UN etc) but hasn't quite worked. We thought war in Europe was over until Putin decided otherwise. So I don't think without the Christ's involvement, permanent peace will come. Bahai's believe that Bahaullah was the Christ, but he doesn't seem to have done either - removed evil people or convinced very many.

Yeah, I'm going by him casting the devil and evil people into the abyss.

Now the Baha'is have what they call the "lesser" peace. And that is similar to the U.N., but with more power and authority. That's where every nation is supposed to almost completely disarm. Like that's going to happen. And all nations are supposed to obey the rulings of the world tribunal. If one of them doesn't, and causes trouble, all the other nations, with whatever limited weapons they have, put down the rebellion and restore peace. But that still sounds like war. And the other thing I've brought up to Baha'is is, what if one of the nations hides some nuclear weapons? Or, what if two or more nations have some nukes they hid? Then it's back to the same, the mutual ability to destroy all life on the planet.

But this lesser peace isn't something that the Baha'is implement. It is supposed to be us and the leaders of all the nations. Who's going to verify this disarmament? Heck, right now in the U.S. there's probably citizens that have enough weapons hidden to field a small army. So, I don't know. Peace sounds so good, but how do we, just ordinary people, make it happen? Maybe you're right... the only way it's going to happen is if God and Jesus take control.

idea · Aug 14, 2022

PearlSeeker said:
Dictatorship of people? Democratic system is not ruled by the masses. Everyone can not decide everything. People can vote for their representatives, demand something as a civil iniciative...

I do think the US has fairly close to best system - not perfect, but separate church/state, checks and balances to protect minorities, frequent local votes.

government of the people, by the people, for the people - servant leadership, representatives not dictators.

CG Didymus · Aug 14, 2022

idea said:
I don't think peace would be able to come from any leader, seems like it needs to be created by each individual from within. Education, resources, environment helps quite a bit.

I don't know. I thought we had a whole generation of "peace" people back in the 60's and early 70's. What happened? Once the Vietnam war ended, and the army wasn't trying to make me a soldier, I fell in line, cut my hair, got a job, got a wife, got a house and pretty soon I was just like the people I used to criticize for being just blind followers. What's worse, some of those peace-loving hippies became Jesus Freaks, then joined a Church. Pretty soon they became more and more conservative and started voting Republican. It's crazy how people change... depending on their circumstances.

CG Didymus · Aug 14, 2022

idea said:
I do think the US has fairly close to best system - not perfect, but separate church/state, checks and balances to protect minorities, frequent local votes.

government of the people, by the people, for the people - servant leadership, representatives not dictators.

To me, it seems like we're heading for disaster. How can we fix it? One side says that the other guys are fixing the elections. And the other guys are saying the other side is suppressing people from be able to vote. And too many people have guns and are itching to use them.

idea · Aug 14, 2022

CG Didymus said:
To me, it seems like we're heading for disaster. How can we fix it? One side says that the other guys are fixing the elections. And the other guys are saying the other side is suppressing people from be able to vote. And too many people have guns and are itching to use them.

There is usually a little truth within all sides - I think the media exaggerates problems, but I appreciate being in country where everyone is able to voice their concerns, and see "admit the problems" as the first step in solving them. We can volunteer at the polls, hopefully more are willing to get involved, conversations are healthy - it's the countries where criticism is silenced that worry sets in.

idea · Aug 14, 2022

CG Didymus said:
I don't know. I thought we had a whole generation of "peace" people back in the 60's and early 70's. What happened? Once the Vietnam war ended, and the army wasn't trying to make me a soldier, I fell in line, cut my hair, got a job, got a wife, got a house and pretty soon I was just like the people I used to criticize for being just blind followers. What's worse, some of those peace-loving hippies became Jesus Freaks, then joined a Church. Pretty soon they became more and more conservative and started voting Republican. It's crazy how people change... depending on their circumstances.

A family friend was raised in a family who believed "the end is neigh", so they never went to college - believing the 2nd coming was any day.. decades went by, the end never came, their parents died, they had to get a job, regret not going to school, regret living a life of fear. That all the previous doomsdayers were shown to be exaggerations gives me hope for the present. Good to find balance, see all the good things happening - medical advances, educational opportunities, ability to so easily communicate online.

Different seasons of life...

"'If You Are Not a Liberal When You Are Young, You Have No Heart, and If You Are Not a Conservative When Old, You Have No Brain'"

I'm personally politically and religiously independent, seek moderation, balance - need both sides to find the best center. It all balances out, it's ok.

soulsurvivor · Aug 14, 2022

Heyo said:
Not sure if you're a Poe or you really didn't catch the irony of your post.

You dis the Baha'is for failing to create peace for 150 years but expect Christ's return "real soon now" - which people expect since 2000 years and didn't happen yet.

I don't really 'dis' the Bahais. Their Bahaullah was not the real Christ so his failure was to be expected, their philosophy is great nonetheless.

As for expecting the return for 2000 years, that's about the correct time to wait. 'God' sends a teacher (known by some as the Christ) to Earth approximately every 2160 years (according to the precession of the equinoxes) so expecting him any sooner would have been fruitless. We have finally arrived at the moment that it can happen - anytime in the next couple of years.

loverofhumanity · Aug 14, 2022

CG Didymus said:
This thread was meant to have input from the Baha'is, so I'm glad you showed up. Recalcitrant members, or nations, is one thing, but what do you do when it's people that are spread out over different nations? Even in the U.S. the problem is spread out over every state. We have red states, blue states and purple states. Within a red state there may be a major city that is mostly blue, but the less populated rural areas are mostly red. We could easily be heading for a civil war. Then we have extreme weather disasters, that includes rising sea levels, too much rain and flooding in one area and extreme drought in another.

So, this could be the types of catastrophes that Baha'is and other religions have predicted. What we gonna do? What are Baha'is going to do? Their prophet says he has the remedy. It's kind of outlined but what are the specifics? It's too easy to say, "Well, we must put an end to racism." "We must get rid of the extremes of wealth and poverty." Yeah, how we going to do that? Rich people are just going to say, "Yeah, you're right. I don't need all this money... Which includes a lot of power." And just tell people to stop hating people that aren't the same as you?

But the big question for Baha'is... What can they do to help without making it about them? Because once they say, "And this is God's plan as given by our prophet, Baha'u'llah." You know people in some of the other religions are going to reject anything Baha'is say. And you know atheists will too. All you have to say is "God" and you know they're going to stop listening.

Thanks CG.

The answer to me is that we Baha’is are only catalysts which give impetus and momentum and are joining with others to jump start the long road to peace. But it will be and must be up to the people of the world to decide their own destiny whether it’s peace or war. Baha’is ‘believe’ that humanity is maturing, that the technology is here and that peace is inevitable but it’s only going to happen on humanity’s terms. We only give ideas and recommendations to the UN and governments but then it’s up to them.

The consciousness of the oneness of humanity is a mindset that doesn’t require one to believe in a god or be affiliated with any religion. It not only embraces atheists and humanists but welcomes them. This concept of the oneness of humanity is all inclusive of every race, class, culture, religion or no religion, lifestyle, nationality and language. But it’s entirely up to humanity to choose to evolve into a world community.

So how does this vision unfold? As more and more people and leaders feel comfortable with oneness, the day might arrive when the leaders of the world hold an international summit to establish world peace. That would mean to form a world authority and would require the consent of the people of the world. To cut a long story short, people would vote on it and every nation’s people would have to clearly accept or it wouldn’t be implemented.

What will bring humanity to that stage nobody knows. We are hopeful that it won’t take another war to bring peace but we do need justice in our world and it might take a calamity to unite us to establish peace because so far nothing else has worked allowing dictators and war criminals freedom to ply their trade.

loverofhumanity · Aug 14, 2022

idea said:
A family friend was raised in a family who believed "the end is neigh", so they never went to college - believing the 2nd coming was any day.. decades went by, the end never came, their parents died, they had to get a job, regret not going to school, regret living a life of fear. That all the previous doomsdayers were shown to be exaggerations gives me hope for the present. Good to find balance, see all the good things happening - medical advances, educational opportunities, ability to so easily communicate online.

Different seasons of life...

"'If You Are Not a Liberal When You Are Young, You Have No Heart, and If You Are Not a Conservative When Old, You Have No Brain'"

I'm personally politically and religiously independent, seek moderation, balance - need both sides to find the best center. It all balances out, it's ok.

Education should never be neglected.

CG Didymus · Aug 14, 2022

Heyo said:
Not sure if you're a Poe or you really didn't catch the irony of your post.

You dis the Baha'is for failing to create peace for 150 years but expect Christ's return "real soon now" - which people expect since 2000 years and didn't happen yet.

CG Didymus said:
Bahá’u’lláh: “These fruitless strifes, these ruinous wars shall pass away, and the ‘Most Great Peace’ shall come.”

When I first learned about the Baha'i Faith in 1970, there were some Baha'is that were saying that the lesser peace would happen by the year 2000. With the changes that were happening in the 60's and 70's, that seemed very possible. But then other Baha'is said that was not true, that it was a misinterpretation. Here's a reference to a Baha'i research paper explaining why the confusion...

Prior to the turning of the twentieth century, especially in its last three decades, a widespread notion existed in the Bahá'í community that the Lesser Peace would be established by the year 2000 following some catastrophic event. Confusion and questions arose when the anticipated event did not materialize as expected.

But like the statement implying Jesus will come back soon, Baha'u'llah's statement leaves it up in the air. I'm hoping that if God is real, and if Baha'u'llah is his prophet, that what is going on now is the start of all these trials and tribulations, and we get on with it. And let's get to where things get fixed. But why do I doubt it? Maybe because Jesus has been "coming soon" for 2000 years?

CG Didymus · Aug 14, 2022

loverofhumanity said:
Thanks CG.

The answer to me is that we Baha’is are only catalysts which give impetus and momentum and are joining with others to jump start the long road to peace. But it will be and must be up to the people of the world to decide their own destiny whether it’s peace or war. Baha’is ‘believe’ that humanity is maturing, that the technology is here and that peace is inevitable but it’s only going to happen on humanity’s terms. We only give ideas and recommendations to the UN and governments but then it’s up to them.

The consciousness of the oneness of humanity is a mindset that doesn’t require one to believe in a god or be affiliated with any religion. It not only embraces atheists and humanists but welcomes them. This concept of the oneness of humanity is all inclusive of every race, class, culture, religion or no religion, lifestyle, nationality and language. But it’s entirely up to humanity to choose to evolve into a world community.

So how does this vision unfold? As more and more people and leaders feel comfortable with oneness, the day might arrive when the leaders of the world hold an international summit to establish world peace. That would mean to form a world authority and would require the consent of the people of the world. To cut a long story short, people would vote on it and every nation’s people would have to clearly accept or it wouldn’t be implemented.

What will bring humanity to that stage nobody knows. We are hopeful that it won’t take another war to bring peace but we do need justice in our world and it might take a calamity to unite us to establish peace because so far nothing else has worked allowing dictators and war criminals freedom to ply their trade.

In theory, we here in the U.S. believe that all people are equal and have certain rights. Sounds great. But it doesn't take much to get us to hate each other. We have a lot of diversity but very little unity. Too many young people have assault rifles and aren't afraid to use them... knowing they're probably going to die themselves. One side hates and distrusts the political leaders of the other side. We've got lots of crime.... blue collar and white collar. Some people want to protect the environment while others could care less.

So, even if most of the world agrees to put a stop to war, I don't think it's going to be unanimous. What then do we do with those that don't want peace? And that don't want to get rid of their prejudices? We've got plenty of them here in the U.S. and they all have guns.

World Peace is Possible and Will Happen

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