• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Presidential Records Act and penalties

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I thought it worthwhile to highlight the law. This article starts with the history of various laws going back to Nixon. This are the key paragraphs

More specific to records, 18 U.S.C. § 2071 makes it a felony to willfully and unlawfully remove, mutilate or destroy—or to attempt to remove, mutilate or destroy—any record deposited in any public office or with any public officer of the United States. That same provision also makes it a felony for anyone having custody of such records to remove, mutilate or destroy those records and imposes severe consequences: a violation requires the individual to “forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States.”


In addition to these provisions, 18 U.S.C. § 1505 makes it a felony for individuals to obstruct congressional investigations.


Under a straightforward reading of any of these statutes, Trump (and those who knowingly helped him destroy presidential records) could well be held liable for violations of criminal law. Note that at least some courts have held that the statutes prohibiting the destruction of public records are specific intent crimes, meaning that violators must know they are breaking the law to be convicted. But that should not be an obstacle here, as reporting indicates Trump and his aides were specifically and repeatedly warned about violating the PRA.


Trump’s Presidential Records Act Violations: Short- and Long-Term Solutions
 

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
"Today, the most persistent PRA problems stem from ,,, reliance on a president who acts in good faith."

Oh dear.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I thought it worthwhile to highlight the law. This article starts with the history of various laws going back to Nixon. This are the key paragraphs

More specific to records, 18 U.S.C. § 2071 makes it a felony to willfully and unlawfully remove, mutilate or destroy—or to attempt to remove, mutilate or destroy—any record deposited in any public office or with any public officer of the United States. That same provision also makes it a felony for anyone having custody of such records to remove, mutilate or destroy those records and imposes severe consequences: a violation requires the individual to “forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States.”


In addition to these provisions, 18 U.S.C. § 1505 makes it a felony for individuals to obstruct congressional investigations.


Under a straightforward reading of any of these statutes, Trump (and those who knowingly helped him destroy presidential records) could well be held liable for violations of criminal law. Note that at least some courts have held that the statutes prohibiting the destruction of public records are specific intent crimes, meaning that violators must know they are breaking the law to be convicted. But that should not be an obstacle here, as reporting indicates Trump and his aides were specifically and repeatedly warned about violating the PRA.


Trump’s Presidential Records Act Violations: Short- and Long-Term Solutions
Hillary isn't concerned. Neither will Trump be.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
"Today, the most persistent PRA problems stem from ,,, reliance on a president who acts in good faith."

Oh dear.
There's also the tradition of letting the mucky mucks
off the hook. Lesser folk go to prison for any security
failure. But not Hillary, Donald, etc.
This should change. If Trump is convicted, & earns
a real sentence, ie, prison time, this will be a great
victory for equality under the law.
No more royal impunity! Lock'm all up!
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I thought it worthwhile to highlight the law. This article starts with the history of various laws going back to Nixon. This are the key paragraphs

More specific to records, 18 U.S.C. § 2071 makes it a felony to willfully and unlawfully remove, mutilate or destroy—or to attempt to remove, mutilate or destroy—any record deposited in any public office or with any public officer of the United States. That same provision also makes it a felony for anyone having custody of such records to remove, mutilate or destroy those records and imposes severe consequences: a violation requires the individual to “forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States.”


In addition to these provisions, 18 U.S.C. § 1505 makes it a felony for individuals to obstruct congressional investigations.


Under a straightforward reading of any of these statutes, Trump (and those who knowingly helped him destroy presidential records) could well be held liable for violations of criminal law. Note that at least some courts have held that the statutes prohibiting the destruction of public records are specific intent crimes, meaning that violators must know they are breaking the law to be convicted. But that should not be an obstacle here, as reporting indicates Trump and his aides were specifically and repeatedly warned about violating the PRA.


Trump’s Presidential Records Act Violations: Short- and Long-Term Solutions
Actually a straightforward reading proves Trump didn’t. Can you provide any proof that Trump willing wanted to violate this?
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
There's also the tradition of letting the mucky mucks
off the hook. Lesser folk go to prison for any security
failure. But not Hillary, Donald, etc.
This should change. If Trump is convicted, & earns
a real sentence, ie, prison time, this will be a great
victory for equality under the law.
No more royal impunity! Lock'm all up!
On that, we are in agreement.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Provide evidence for your claim.
upload_2022-8-14_13-24-9.jpeg


There are witnesses, photos. Any reasonable person would agree that there is considerable evidence.

A person determined to ignore evidence and defend dear leader at any cost will do …


Well, let’s see.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Actually a straightforward reading proves Trump didn’t. Can you provide any proof that Trump willing wanted to violate this?
Oh, you mean the witnesses. I'm sure they will offer their testimonies in due time. Thanks for asking about it.

Trump is a loser, and is in bigger and bigger trouble as things progress legally. I doubt many aids will want to ruin their own lives by lying or not testifying against Trump. As we see in the Jan 6 committee hearings many have been willing to talk. Trump doesn't;t have many friends left.

Interestingly, some are suggesting Krutchner as the insider who called the authorities. He is young and his father went to prison for white collar crimes, so he knows he doesn't want to follow in his dad's footsteps. Krutchner has full access to Trump and materials given his various jobs in the administration.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
There's also the tradition of letting the mucky mucks
off the hook. Lesser folk go to prison for any security
failure. But not Hillary, Donald, etc.
This should change. If Trump is convicted, & earns
a real sentence, ie, prison time, this will be a great
victory for equality under the law.
No more royal impunity! Lock'm all up!

I suspect more likely get a fine.
Wouldn't prevent anyone from running/holding office.
Though as a felon I suppose it be illegal for Trump to vote for himself.
 
Top