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God is nice and is doing his best to eliminate suffering.

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I wrote this in another thread, but thought it deserves a topic itself.

My understanding is God is doing his best to eliminate suffering, evil and guide us. The following post elaborates:

Salam

Corruption in land and sea is because of what humans hands has earned.

Suffering by humans to other humans, is not God's punishment or him afflicting it.

He tries us by each other and allows evil ones to cause suffering on earth.

Why doesn't he just get rid of all evil people. He does time and time again, destroy oppressors, and their day is coming.

However, he wishes for evil people to be saved as well.

God loves to forgive more then to punish. He is begging us to ask forgiveness from him. Who does that?

No one asks people who are evil towards them to ask forgiveness so they can forgive them. No one. If the person will ask forgiveness, it won't be by that person reaching out begging them to ask forgiveness so that they could on good terms.

God is nice, but there is limits to being nice. Life is a limited time. Die evil, and consequences are forever. But God is asking us to seek his forgiveness and pray for guidance. He has warned us about the Devils from Jinn because they are unseen parts of our psyche whether we notice or don't.

He wishes to guide us to that he can reward us.

If he can "force" love and make us see his beauty, he would. There is no forcing love, it has to come with freewill. When truth is clear beyond possibility of doubt and there is no way to doubt it at all no matter how much we might try, it's too late to love God, because the matter is decreed now and there is no reward that be given for faith.

The day of judgment people will know truth but at the same time, never be more blind to God and his truth, they will blind to his beauty and further astray in hate of him. Their prayers will always be in error because it can't have love at this point. It will be empty words.

God is trying to save us. What else can he do?

Too many signs have caused nations to perish in the past and the Mahdi (a) coming out when world is not ready can have consequences.

Yet it's upon God to save believers at the moment of peril and distress from their enemies, believers are asking disbelievers for peace and justice, so that the hour doesn't destroy them and world doesn't face the consequences of not being ready.

God never wanted to create this world in the first place. Satan was never meant to disobey God, Adam (a) elite friend of God was truthful so trusted Iblis, but still, why didn't he rely on Ahlulbayt (a) and reach out to them in moments of peril? After that, there was no choice, but to create this world, as he can't try repeat when we all saw consequences, and so had to create a world of trials. But successors of Adam (a) up to Idris (a) were meant to be followed but things went haywire, and Nuh (A) couldn't save them when he was sent. All this was not meant to happen.

A disease we inherited generation to generation after, is that when believers are distressed they call upon God but when saved from enemies and brought to safety, many of them turn on their backs and begin to associate with God being ungrateful. This even happened with children of Israel during Musa (a) lifetime let alone after!

And 313 believers of battle of badr and sincere companions of Mohamad (s) were built by God and his light. They witnessed many things in battle. And the ones who fought Mohammad (s) were thankful for being spared blood and forgiven from the companions as well. It looked good. If most stayed true, as expected they should, things wouldn't have gone bad after Mohammad (s). But they were apathetic and didn't remain resolved and patient, were tired of battles, and didn't come to aid of Ali (a) and Fatima (a) except some of them, which Ali (a) decided to spare their blood and not fight as a result.

God did everything he can, revealed Surah Auli-Imran, begging companions of Mohammad (s) not to turn on their backs. What else can he do.

Fatima (a) reminded them, Ali (a) reminded them, what can be done.
 
Last edited:

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Was there something you wished to debate, or is this just a sermon?
Salam

I believe this explanation solves the issue of "problem of evil". Therefore Quran And Ahlulbayt (a) theodicy solves the issue of "problem of evil". If there is holes in the explanation, people can point it out.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Salam

I believe this explanation solves the issue of "problem of evil". If there is holes in the explanation, people can point it out.

Om shanti.

Setting aside the faith-based premise that God exists, assuming God does exist, how do you know what God wants? Or if God even has the quality of "want?"

Please share your own experiential-based knowledge in your response, rather than quote-mining the Quran.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Setting aside the faith-based premise that God exists, assuming God does exist, how do you know what God wants? Or if God even has the quality of "want?"

Please share your own experiential-based knowledge in your response, rather than quote-mining the Quran.

Salam

The light of God is connected to all of us, by the Guide of time, whether Quran exists or not, he is the connection from heaven to earth and earth to heaven. But God out of his mercy reveals a book reminding of the unseen connection so that we connect to God by it.

Would I have come to know God and the Guide of time and light without Quran? I doubt it, my mind is insane and I would find no grounding. I would probably be paranoid about Shayateen and not be able to fend them off.

The books of God is an act of mercy, Prophets are a mercy to know his will, Messengers are a mercy, but Imam connecting to God as his sign is an act of justice from God because without that light, there is no way to God, no path, and no morality.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Salam

The light of God is connected to all of us, by the Guide of time, whether Quran exists or not, he is the connection from heaven to earth and earth to heaven. But God out of his mercy reveals a book reminding of the unseen connection so that we connect to God by it.

Would I have come to know God and the Guide of time and light without Quran? I doubt it, my mind is insane and I would find no grounding. I would probably be paranoid about Shayateen and not be able to fend them off.

The books of God is an act of mercy, Prophets are a mercy to know his will, Messengers are a mercy, but Imam connecting to God as his sign is an act of justice from God because without that light, there is no way to God, no path, and no morality.

Om shanti.

So is it safe to conclude that your knowledge has no foundation in personal experience and based solely in the Quran?
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
...so I suppose what I post will just have to suffice. ;)
Salam

The signs Quran reminds are 8 types. The proof it offers are 8 types.

It is a way for us to be guided how to reflect over signs such as those within our souls, as well as those on horizons (Ahlulbayt (a) light telepathy guidance), as well as signs such as conscious creatures (dabats).

The Prophet (s) said to seek the knowledge even in China, by that he meant the knowledge of the soul in lies knowledge of God.

The heart of Islamic argument from Adam (a) till the Mahdi (a) is to rely on God. God's book is a means of relying on him, but this doesn't mean blindly follow it. It's meant to be reflected about.

It's political theory, what it says about rights and human rights, all of this, needs to be reflected about with attentive ears. But you have to think about real life as well.

Of course, if I don't rely on God's rope (book + Ahlulbayt), then the argument of Islam would not make sense. But we rely on God and not from self-proclaimed experts or authorities about guidance with no proof from God.

Unseen wise, Jinn can claim to be the light. But Quran teaches how to distinguish light from darkness, the truthful spirit of God's command from false ones, and the sword of God from fake ones.

The reminder it calls to can be witnessed and experienced.

With peace.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Differing conceptions of God, as usual. I lose it at the word 'his'. Whatever this 'God' is supposedly doing to eliminate suffering, it's not very skilled at it.

If we submitted or at least a significant amount of humans in any given generation decided to help God's rope with sincere honorable resolve. All suffering would end.

So it looks bad on him, when it just takes some to respond, command good and forbid evil, after they applied it to themselves, then everything will be fixed.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
If we submitted or at least a significant amount of humans in any given generation decided to help God's rope with sincere honorable resolve. All suffering would end.

So it looks bad on him, when it just takes some to respond, command good and forbid evil, after they applied it to themselves, then everything will be fixed.
Sorry I don't understand Islamic lingo so you'll have to forgive me. I have no idea what God's rope is, or what evil is. I'm so unintelligent you might as well be talking at a dead fish.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Sorry I don't understand Islamic lingo so you'll have to forgive me. I have no idea what God's rope is, or what evil is. I'm so unintelligent you might as well be talking at a dead fish.

Rope is a outreach from God connecting guidance lowest to highest. In this age, it's Quran and Ahlulbayt of Mohammad (S). In the past, a different recitation from God and a different household of guidance. Always been a rope though.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Rope is a outreach from God connecting guidance lowest to highest. In this age, it's Quran and Ahlulbayt of Mohammad (S). In the past, a different recitation from God and a different household of guidance. Always been a rope though.
I reiterate ... you're talking to a rock. I know nothing of your faith. But if you feel talking to a rock isn't a waste of time and energy, go ahead. But I'll stop responding. No point entering discussions where I don't get it.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I reiterate ... you're talking to a rock. I know nothing of your faith. But if you feel talking to a rock isn't a waste of time and energy, go ahead. But I'll stop responding. No point entering discussions where I don't get it.
Salam

God is the truth and we rely on that sacred being for guidance to truth. What is from him in terms of Authority is to be followed. What is disconnected from his authority, I am not familiar with.

I am no one so you should not rely on me. My faith does not matter.

You should not care about that, but just use me to gain truth. If I say false things, ignore it. If I say wisdom and truth, benefit from it.

'my faith', I am no one, I'm a seeker of faith and searching for the creed of Ibrahim, I might have some of it but definitely do not have all the truth nor entire faith nor complete understanding of Quran.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
I wrote this in another thread, but thought it deserves a topic itself.

My understanding is God is doing his best to eliminate suffering, evil and guide us. The following post elaborates:

Salam

Corruption in land and sea is because of what humans hands has earned.

Suffering by humans to other humans, is not God's punishment or him afflicting it.

He tries us by each other and allows evil ones to cause suffering on earth.

Why doesn't he just get rid of all evil people. He does time and time again, destroy oppressors, and their day is coming.

However, he wishes for evil people to be saved as well.

God loves to forgive more then to punish. He is begging us to ask forgiveness from him. Who does that?

No one asks people who are evil towards them to ask forgiveness so they can forgive them. No one. If the person will ask forgiveness, it won't be by that person reaching out begging them to ask forgiveness so that they could on good terms.

God is nice, but there is limits to being nice. Life is a limited time. Die evil, and consequences are forever. But God is asking us to seek his forgiveness and pray for guidance. He has warned us about the Devils from Jinn because they are unseen parts of our psyche whether we notice or don't.

He wishes to guide us to that he can reward us.

If he can "force" love and make us see his beauty, he would. There is no forcing love, it has to come with freewill. When truth is clear beyond possibility of doubt and there is no way to doubt it at all no matter how much we might try, it's too late to love God, because the matter is decreed now and there is no reward that be given for faith.

The day of judgment people will know truth but at the same time, never be more blind to God and his truth, they will blind to his beauty and further astray in hate of him. Their prayers will always be in error because it can't have love at this point. It will be empty words.

God is trying to save us. What else can he do?

Too many signs have caused nations to perish in the past and the Mahdi (a) coming out when world is not ready can have consequences.

Yet it's upon God to save believers at the moment of peril and distress from their enemies, believers are asking disbelievers for peace and justice, so that the hour doesn't destroy them and world doesn't face the consequences of not being ready.

God never wanted to create this world in the first place. Satan was never meant to disobey God, Adam (a) elite friend of God was truthful so trusted Iblis, but still, why didn't he rely on Ahlulbayt (a) and reach out to them in moments of peril? After that, there was no choice, but to create this world, as he can't try repeat when we all saw consequences, and so had to create a world of trials. But successors of Adam (a) up to Idris (a) were meant to be followed but things went haywire, and Nuh (A) couldn't save them when he was sent. All this was not meant to happen.

A disease we inherited generation to generation after, is that when believers are distressed they call upon God but when saved from enemies and brought to safety, many of them turn on their backs and begin to associate with God being ungrateful. This even happened with children of Israel during Musa (a) lifetime let alone after!

And 313 believers of battle of badr and sincere companions of Mohamad (s) were built by God and his light. They witnessed many things in battle. And the ones who fought Mohammad (s) were thankful for being spared blood and forgiven from the companions as well. It looked good. If most stayed true, as expected they should, things wouldn't have gone bad after Mohammad (s). But they were apathetic and didn't remain resolved and patient, were tired of battles, and didn't come to aid of Ali (a) and Fatima (a) except some of them, which Ali (a) decided to spare their blood and not fight as a result.

God did everything he can, revealed Surah Auli-Imran, begging companions of Mohammad (s) not to turn on their backs. What else can he do.

Fatima (a) reminded them, Ali (a) reminded them, what can be done.

It doesn't seem like this god's best is very good. Why doesn't this god give the child rapist/murderer a heart attack after his first or second victim, instead of allowing him to claim twelve victims over the course of his life and die in his sleep at a ripe old age?
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It doesn't seem like this god's best is very good. Why doesn't this god give the child rapist/murderer a heart attack after his first or second victim, instead of allowing him to claim twelve victims over the course of his life and die in his sleep at a ripe old age?

Then everyone would obey God out of pure fear and not love and he won't be able to reward them with himself.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Then everyone would obey God out of pure fear and not love and he won't be able to reward them with himself.

WHAT? You would start fearing this god if this god started giving heart attacks to child rapist/murderers? Why would anyone other than child rapist/murderers be afraid? Personally I would be THANKFUL to any god that started taking such action. It would be an indication that this god actually cared about reducing needless human suffering.
 
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