Is it wrong for a Muslim to perform at a Christmas celebration?

Thank you so much, Lillithu. You actually show what some others simply lecture about.

As for iftar, that's another thing entirely. Every iftar I've been to has been like... like a wedding, or something! Just everyone in such a wonderful mood and music playing and people dancing and, of course, a HUGE buffet of everyone's favorite foods! And then you get visitors, and then you go visit - door to door, house to house. It's like everyone is doing the same thing at the same time, it's really amazing.

Sorry, I didn't mean to cause a disagreement between you brothers and sisters in Islam. My comment to Mujaheed was tongue in cheek as he and others have often pointed to examples of Christians doing things in different ways as though we all disagree with each other and none of us knows what is truth. It appears that Islam has it's own denominations even if they are not official ones with names and everything.

First off I take offense at this whole little backlash I'm getting for making a simple statement. I never said anything bad about Djamila or the way bosnians do things. I did say it was different because the non-bosnian muslims do not share the culture and it is therefore strange to us.

I never said anything self-righteous, I'm not in the middle east or any other part of my body, I'm not stuffy, not crabby, nor do I look down upon other people. And no I have never heard of music being part and parcel of what muslims do exclusively for Ramadhan. If that makes you dislike me so fine I don't care. I disagree with about 98% of what you post, and I point out the differences in cultural viewpoint and now I'm self-righteous? Whatever. If finding the difference makes me crabby or whatever that's your opinion then.

About my head being in the Middle east, no sweetie. My head is in the Quran and the Sunnah. I am not perfect by any stretch, but I do try to hide my own faults and shortcomings and those of other people as well. If that's middle eastern culture to you then again, it's on you and it's a personal problem.

fullyveiled muslimah said:

First off I take offense at this whole little backlash I'm getting for making a simple statement. I never said anything bad about Djamila or the way bosnians do things.

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I recognize that, and did not mean to imply otherwise. I was simply stating my opinion that I am happy that Djamila's here.

fullyveiled muslimah said:

I never said anything self-righteous,

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I called someone else self-righteous, not you.

And My post is not directed at you it's directed at Djamila.

fullyveiled muslimah said:

And My post is not directed at you it's directed at Djamila.

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I never said some of you what you posted, though, FVM. You seem to be responding to mine and Lillith's posts...?

*Paul* said:

Sorry, I didn't mean to cause a disagreement between you brothers and sisters in Islam. My comment to Mujaheed was tongue in cheek as he and others have often pointed to examples of Christians doing things in different ways as though we all disagree with each other and none of us knows what is truth. It appears that Islam has it's own denominations even if they are not official ones with names and everything.

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Well, It's not a matter of Muslims and Christians. It's just a matter of whether the doctrine of a particular religion is conviencing enough or not. For Muslims, you will never see them argue about huge things which deal with the identity of God, or his Prophets, but rather, in some small issues like rituals and some practices, etc.

These things are so normal, even some of the scholars in the past said that, it's a blessing that we are different in some issues, like what you see in the famous four Mazhabs "schools" of thought which usually deal with Fiqh because some people in specific parts of the world might need somthing, and others, might be in need to practice specific things in another way, which doesn't totally conflict with the former. Those schools of thoughts agree with each other maybe like in 90% of the issues, but then, they disagree about some little detailes like whether when someone do Wudu must wash with water all the hair, part of it, or just touching it with some water would be enough?

Yep, things like that. Other than that, thank God, all the Muslims are in agreement.

I remember one of the scholars from Saudi Arabia appeared on TV to answer some questions about Islam, and one muslim woman called him from Egypt, she asked him about somthing --i don't remember what was it-- then he demanded that she ask her Shikh "scholar" in her area, because what might be acceptable in Saudi Arabia, might not be in Egypt, but then he answered others about general things which all the scholars agree about.

Therefore, denominations and organizations, not even without names doesn't exist, but rather, what you see in here or in any other part of the world is no more than an INDIVIDUALS thoughts as a result of studying Islam more and more, because we are not scholars, and we all learn from each other everyday, even i learnt from those whom i disagree with alot of things, much more than you can imagine.

Peace and blessing,

The Truth

lilithu said:

Which is why I view Djamila's presence on RF as such a blessing. As a non-Muslim, I make no judgement as to who holds the correct view and who does not, but I am happy to see a diversity of views represented here.

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I know; it is very refreshing.

Djamila said:

And secondly, why are you even still talking about this?

You're all walking around like God's gift to mankind, "Oh, music at Ramadan? I never heard of it..." "Oh my God, music? Oh no! No Muslim would do that!" "Oh, well we are real Muslims and we pray all Ramadan!"

Well good for you! Bravo! Well done! Good show!

Meanwhile, it's not like I hired actors and faked the videos I've shown you from YouTube. They're real, believe it or not! Look at them again!

The first one is a fine Muslim superstar singing a lovely Bosnian Muslim folk song on Eid ul'Fitr. The second is Sarajevo's Zetra Olympic Stadium absolutely packed with Muslims for a religious concert for Muhammed. They're real, you can see them with their own eyes!

So stop acting like you've no idea what's going on when I say WE LISTEN TO MUSIC AS PART OF CELEBRATING RAMADAN!

You all should try it, maybe you wouldn't be so uptight and crabby. You're all practically LOOKING for conflict. I posted all these threads about mosques in the Islam forum, not ONE ****ING REPLY! Not a SINGLE ONE! I post anything that sets off your "OH MY GOD! THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN WHAT I KNOW!" alarm and you're all over it.

Well, whatever. Enjoy it.

But, as I said - you've seen the videos of the Ramadan concert, so knock off pretending to be confused.

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My dear beloved sister, I never said anything about you. I never said I wanted to fight with you or anything like that. All I said was in question form Ramadan songs? Why? I as a new muslim never have heard anything like that in my area. And have been given plenty of evidence within the sunnah from my teachers and mentors that it is not permissible. I do not question the scholars I know and the students of knowledge which i myself aspire to be by attending here. arees.org

I am not criticizing you or your culture. I follow the Quran and Sunnah. Allah's Messenger warned his companions about music, and told of the punishments for those listening to it, we who follow the sunnah have the evidence. If you want to agree OK. If you want to disagree, give me your evidence and then OK you can disagree.

I apologize if I have said anything to offend you. I am not sure how or what I said or did but my bad. The Bosnians have as far as I know and what I see have mixed alot of the Bosnian culture into people who are muslim. Are some of the things you guys do according to the Quran and sunnah in terms of the concerts, dancing, singing, music, etc. that is between those that do it and Allah.

As far as I know it is not permissible, but for me to say your people and what you do will take you out of the folds of Islam. it is not my call. You and your people are muslim to me. I am proud to call the bosnians my brothers and sisters in religion. there are some great scholars that come out of your region and there has been alot of Jihad that has ravaged you guys. it has been rough for you and all my brothers and sisters in that region. Look at the sacrifices your people have made for the sake of Allah and his religion. look at the oppression you guys went through. Look I am not gonna criticize or talk bad about the Bosnian or say this and that. i am not Allah I am far from perfect.

I am not here to argue with you or any other muslim about petty issues in the whole grand scheme of things. With all that is going on the muslim world and the rest of humanity. this is the last thing which is at the top of my list of priorities. Now if something is said in terms of fiqh and aqeedah concerning certain issues within our religion I like many others will give the evidence you give yours and Allah will judge. Do what you do but just be muslim that is what is most important to me.

for I do not worry about you as much as I do all the non muslims. that is the reality of it. I may disagree with you on something but I still love you because you are my sister.

this is the difference I have seen between brothers and sisters today. Even the companions, the great sahabi of Rasulullah had differences of opinion but they did not hate each other or develop a hatred with each other. But they followed the religion the best way as Allah and his Messenger said. They are the examples. And I gringe to think at what the companions and the messenger of Allah would say if they saw what some of us are doing to each other and this religion. My self included. We all need to take a real hard look at what the Messenger of Allah did and said and how his companions adhered and followed the command and order of Allah and His Messenger Muhammed peace and blessings be upon him. to live life and see it the way they did. To refrain from desire, the desire to not be wrong, the desire to not accept the truth when it comes. We all need to do that myself especially.

Again sorry for whatever I did. Djamila I have rambled on long enough. May Allah's peace mercy and blessings be upon you.

The Truth said:

Well, i think that brother Mujahid Mohammed and sister FVM are not in the Middle East.

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what does the middle east have to do with Islam I am confused now. :sorry1:

lilithu said:

Jeez, such self-righteousness.

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Is saying that muslims try to get closer to Allah during Ramadan is "self-righteousness"??!!
Anyway, Thank you for ur nice remark!

I know that during Ramadan, the days are devoted to fasting and reflection. But when the sun goes down, the evenings are devoted to celebration and family and generosity towards strangers. I would be surprised if there were no singing involved. There was certainly music at the Iftars that I've been to.

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I know that muslims like to prepare different types of food and invite their relatives and such, yet no singing is involved! After the iftar there is Taraweeh prayer which may take from 1 hour and half to 2 hours, and after midnight, some ppl pray tahajjud which may take another hour or more and many read the Quraan after the prayers, so the night is also devoted to prayers and Quran recitations! (I hope this is not self-righteousness too!!!)
This is not something from my imagination, i saw these things by my own eyes! If there r some muslims don't do this, it's not my fault!

*Paul* said:

Sorry, I didn't mean to cause a disagreement between you brothers and sisters in Islam. My comment to Mujaheed was tongue in cheek as he and others have often pointed to examples of Christians doing things in different ways as though we all disagree with each other and none of us knows what is truth. It appears that Islam has it's own denominations even if they are not official ones with names and everything.

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The difference is we have a criterion or measure which cannot be altered or changed to fall back on. To know if what you do is correct or false. Yeah you guys have differences. Major ones. As do we. But how do you know who is correct in methodology. In Islam we have the Quran and Authentic Sunnah. What is your measure of criterion? If you say the bible I will say which one. Which preacher or teachers interpretation to the different congregations is the valid one. For they are different.

We have a measure to go by if it in the Quran and the Sunnah which is a physical representation of the Quran, and the comments of the companions because they lived the Quran and they lived the hadith. They have the deepest knowledge as the messenger of Allah said and they were the least superficial. We go by that measure outside of it will lead one into error. It is very clear.

But you would need to study Islam to know this from someone who will give you the evidence. You see you need an evidence, a proof, to validate any claim. And if the Quran or Messenger of Allah says something it is law to us. To reject something he or his companions did is wrong in Islam. If they did it that way we need to do it that way. the way they prayed, ate, slept, dressed, dealt with each others, and worshipped Allah is Islam. Anything more or less is not it. It is a complete way of life. Complete in all ways down to how one relieves himself in the restroom.

To give a name or claim to something without validating yourself within it is foolish. anyone can say well this is Islamic or muslims do this. If this is said then someone should immediatly ask well did Allah's Messenger do it or say it was ok. How did they carry out the order. Did they not wear hijab. Did they kill themselves. Did they steal and oppress each other. Did they disregard ANY COMMAND ALLAH GAVE THEM. What did they do. This is Islam. You know this

not4me said:

Is saying that muslims try to get closer to Allah during Ramadan is "self-righteousness"??!!

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Oh please. You know that's not what I was referring to. I was referring to this:

On the other side, there are some "muslims" (i don't know what to call them) thought that Ramadan is the month of amusement, so if you went to the mosques searching for them, you wouldn't find them, instead you would find them at the nightclubs, drinking, smoking and watching some naked girls dancing...i can tell you those are few but unfortunately they r present! If they only knew that Ramadan is the month of forgiveness...!!!
But are the second gruop like the first one?! :no: :no:
Would God look at the second one like the first!?! :no:

not4me said:

I know that muslims like to prepare different types of food and invite their relatives and such, yet no singing is involved! After the iftar there is Taraweeh prayer which may take from 1 hour and half to 2 hours, and after midnight, some ppl pray tahajjud which may take another hour or more and many read the Quraan after the prayers, so the night is also devoted to prayers and Quran recitations! (I hope this is not self-righteousness too!!!)
This is not something from my imagination, i saw these things by my own eyes! If there r some muslims don't do this, it's not my fault!

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I am sure that you speak truthfully from your own experience. But your experience is not the totality of the Muslim world. I am also sure that Ramadan, while maintaining some common features everywhere, looks different in Indonesia than it does in Saudi Arabia than it does in Turkey than it does in the United States than it does in Bosnia than it does in China.

not4me said:

I know that muslims like to prepare different types of food and invite their relatives and such, yet no singing is involved!

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You forgot 3bd el moteleb, ramdan gana (Ramadan came! a famous Egyptian song for ramadan)..lol
Actually, I'm starting to think many Egyptians will not notice the beginning of Ramadan if they didnt hear that song in the radio!!

I agree with Mujahid, TT, FVM, not4me..Ramadan is supposed to be a whole month just for worshipping and asking God's forgivness, and what many people do worldwide is totally unsuitable for this month...

And hey Mila, didn't they find any other month to sing except this?...Songs barely keep you in touch with God, and no muslim is supposed to take that risk in Ramadan!!

lilithu said:

I am sure that you speak truthfully from your own experience. But your experience is not the totality of the Muslim world. I am also sure that Ramadan, while maintaining some common features everywhere, looks different in Indonesia than it does in Saudi Arabia than it does in Turkey than it does in the United States than it does in Bosnia than it does in China.

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Well, if we are going to be confused due to some people's activities, then we must refere to the old Islamic ages..

Check what the prophet (pbuh) and companions did in Ramadan, and just do it!

lilithu said:

I am sure that you speak truthfully from your own experience. But your experience is not the totality of the Muslim world. I am also sure that Ramadan, while maintaining some common features everywhere, looks different in Indonesia than it does in Saudi Arabia than it does in Turkey than it does in the United States than it does in Bosnia than it does in China.

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but that is not the issue. The issue is and always is. Is what they are doing Islamic truly. I mean is what they are doing within the halal from the Quran and sunnah. Did any of the companions do it. If the Messenger did not do it they would not do it..

Muslim do alot of different things in different parts of the world. But is it true Islam. Is it something that these individuals did. they are the criterion. they are the measure we judge islam. They are the true believers and successful. they have the deepest knowledge of Quran and sunnah they are the least superficial. they are the one's who gave it to us pure. they are the one's who preserved it and protected it. they are the one's who sacrificed everthing for this religion. they are the one's who performed everything that is required everyday for us in terms of worship.

NO MUSLIM ON THIS PLANET CAN BE USED AS AN EXAMPLE AS THIS IS WHAT MUSLIMS DO. NO MUSLIM ON THIS PLANET CAN BE USED AS AN EXAMPLE AS THIS IS WHAT MUSLIMS DO. NO MUSLIM ON THIS PLANET CAN BE USED AS AN EXAMPLE AS THIS IS WHAT MUSLIMS DO.

The individuals mentioned above are muslims, they are what islam exemplifies. they are individuals who should be icons and examples for all mankind to follow. They are the muslims everyone else is just trying to be as good as they were to the best of their ability.

And our ability is almost nonexexistence compared to theirs. We are in no way possibly close to these individuals in terms of belief, compassion, justice, sacrifice, and just shear umimmpenetrable love they had for Allah and His Messenger. they would sacrifice EVERYTHING for this religion.

It doesn't matter what muslims on the planet do or what they think. they are not an authority in our religion. If what any of them think or do is not in line with what the messenger of Allah and his companions did then you are off the path of Islam. It is very clear in our religion. this is the case for all mankind every tribe that was sent a messenger had to follow the Messenger. they all called their people to God. The true path. You do not deviate or inovate. You hold fast to every part of it.

This is Islam anything outside of what has been established should be called in to question. Ask them to bring the evidence not their ideas their evidence and see if their testimony stands up to the witness of the Quran and authentic sunnah as being truth from Allah.

I am sorry I am just getting really tired of people saying oh these muslims do this and that. Oh they claim to be the truthful muslims. Shia, Sunni, Blah Blah Blah.

Islam is not rocket science God sent the Quran which told the people to Obey Allah and His Messenger in all matters. he will show us the path to guidance and righteous follow the way of the companions for they achieved true faith. that is it. do anything other and you are seriously tripping I mean it is really that simple.

Peace.

Mujahid Mohammed said:

but that is not the issue. The issue is and always is. Is what they are doing Islamic truly. I mean is what they are doing within the halal from the Quran and sunnah. Did any of the companions do it. If the Messenger did not do it they would not do it..

Muslim do alot of different things in different parts of the world. But is it true Islam. Is it something that these individuals did. they are the criterion. they are the measure we judge islam. They are the true believers and successful. they have the deepest knowledge of Quran and sunnah they are the least superficial. they are the one's who gave it to us pure. they are the one's who preserved it and protected it. they are the one's who sacrificed everthing for this religion. they are the one's who performed everything that is required everyday for us in terms of worship.

NO MUSLIM ON THIS PLANET CAN BE USED AS AN EXAMPLE AS THIS IS WHAT MUSLIMS DO. NO MUSLIM ON THIS PLANET CAN BE USED AS AN EXAMPLE AS THIS IS WHAT MUSLIMS DO. NO MUSLIM ON THIS PLANET CAN BE USED AS AN EXAMPLE AS THIS IS WHAT MUSLIMS DO.

The individuals mentioned above are muslims, they are what islam exemplifies. they are individuals who should be icons and examples for all mankind to follow. They are the muslims everyone else is just trying to be as good as they were to the best of their ability.

And our ability is almost nonexexistence compared to theirs. We are in no way possibly close to these individuals in terms of belief, compassion, justice, sacrifice, and just shear umimmpenetrable love they had for Allah and His Messenger. they would sacrifice EVERYTHING for this religion.

It doesn't matter what muslims on the planet do or what they think. they are not an authority in our religion. If what any of them think or do is not in line with what the messenger of Allah and his companions did then you are off the path of Islam. It is very clear in our religion. this is the case for all mankind every tribe that was sent a messenger had to follow the Messenger. they all called their people to God. The true path. You do not deviate or inovate. You hold fast to every part of it.

This is Islam anything outside of what has been established should be called in to question. Ask them to bring the evidence not their ideas their evidence and see if their testimony stands up to the witness of the Quran and authentic sunnah as being truth from Allah.

I am sorry I am just getting really tired of people saying oh these muslims do this and that. Oh they claim to be the truthful muslims. Shia, Sunni, Blah Blah Blah.

Islam is not rocket science God sent the Quran which told the people to Obey Allah and His Messenger in all matters. he will show us the path to guidance and righteous follow the way of the companions for they achieved true faith. that is it. do anything other and you are seriously tripping I mean it is really that simple.

Peace.

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Well said bro.

As Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him said) in the meaning of the hadith: "Islam started as somthing strange, and it will return back again to be somthing strange, so Toba for the strangers".

Toba Is ultimate happiness and some scholars said, it's heaven.

It's so dangerous when life become just a matter of adopted cultuers or about what some Muslims think, not Islam itself.

May Allah help us and help our Muslims brothers and sisters to remain in the right path.

Mujahid Mohammed said:

but that is not the issue. The issue is and always is. Is what they are doing Islamic truly. I mean is what they are doing within the halal from the Quran and sunnah. Did any of the companions do it. If the Messenger did not do it they would not do it.

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The same arguments occur within Christianity where both sides will say "They are not real Christians because they don't view Christianity the way that we do." And both sides are certain that they are right.

The only thing that I know with certainty is: as this world gets smaller, more and more often you will meet Muslims who do not do things the way that you do them.

I just realized that this argument about who is a "good" Muslim is totally off-topic from the OP. Can we all at least agree that it's ok for a Muslim to sing at a Christmas celebration? After all, Jesus is revered in Islam. This is something that is not widely known amongst Christians and knowing it can possibly benefit relations.