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Matter and Consciousness

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
some folks believe that matter creates consciousness.


so at what point does matter create consciousness? how does something go from being no conscious matter to conscious matter?


how do you create something from nothing?

1. if matter produces consciousness, then consciousness doesn't come from nothing, since it's being produced by something.

2. it's a specific organization of matter that produces consciousness/awareness. not just any matter in any composition.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
consciousness is nothing but awareness. either internal or external. amoeba manipulate their environments. consciousness can be scalar

If you mean just awareness, then that's the word you should use.
Consciousness is about much more then merely being "aware".

Even awareness itself has gradients.
In the case of the amoeba, you are talking about "awareness" as being nothing more or less then "responsive to external stimuli".
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
If you mean just awareness, then that's the word you should use.
Consciousness is about much more then merely being "aware".

Even awareness itself has gradients.
In the case of the amoeba, you are talking about "awareness" as being nothing more or less then "responsive to external stimuli".
no it isn't


consciousness, awareness is scalar. it isn't a form
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Again, a poor choice of words. They respond, which does not imply awareness. A pool ball responds to the impact of the cue, without any awareness at all.
a cue ball doesn't send/receive signals. it has no need to be aware of something apart from itself
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
no it isn't

Yes it is.

consciousness, awareness is scalar. it isn't a form

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

I stick by what I said. And your rejection at face value doesn't convince me otherwise.

So again: consciousness and awareness are not the same thing. While they certainly overlap, or deal with the same type of "experience" of individuals, they are not the same in the expression thereof.

And awareness surely has gradients.
The awareness of an amoeba is not of the same level of the awareness of a cat.
And the awareness of a cat is not of the same level as the awareness of a chimp.
And the awareness of a chimp is not of the same level as the awareness of a human.

For example, a cat won't pass the spot-test (it doesn't recognize itself in the mirror), so it's not so much self-aware as humans and chimps are.

But cats are aware of their environment, to the point where they can use the environment by planning with intent to achieve a goal. For example, it might use a sharp rock to scratch itself, or it might use a boulder as a means to be able to reach a roof.

An amoeba does none of these things and it merely, reacts to external stimuli. So it is "aware" only in the sense that it has a sensory experience. But it's pretty much in terms of instinctive reflexes. There's no thought or intent that enters into it. It's just action / reaction.

To say that all these types of experiencing the world around us, and being "aware" of the world around us (and ourselves) are exactly the same, is just patently and obviously wrong.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Yes it is.



I'm not sure what you mean by that.

I stick by what I said. And your rejection at face value doesn't convince me otherwise.

So again: consciousness and awareness are not the same thing. While they certainly overlap, or deal with the same type of "experience" of individuals, they are not the same in the expression thereof.

And awareness surely has gradients.
The awareness of an amoeba is not of the same level of the awareness of a cat.
And the awareness of a cat is not of the same level as the awareness of a chimp.
And the awareness of a chimp is not of the same level as the awareness of a human.

For example, a cat won't pass the spot-test (it doesn't recognize itself in the mirror), so it's not so much self-aware as humans and chimps are.

But cats are aware of their environment, to the point where they can use the environment by planning with intent to achieve a goal. For example, it might use a sharp rock to scratch itself, or it might use a boulder as a means to be able to reach a roof.

An amoeba does none of these things and it merely, reacts to external stimuli. So it is "aware" only in the sense that it has a sensory experience. But it's pretty much in terms of instinctive reflexes. There's no thought or intent that enters into it. It's just action / reaction.

To say that all these types of experiencing the world around us, and being "aware" of the world around us (and ourselves) are exactly the same, is just patently and obviously wrong.


i never stated that consciousness is the same for all types and i've also stated in numerous posts that it's scalar
 

idea

Question Everything
some folks believe that matter creates consciousness.


so at what point does matter create consciousness? how does something go from being no conscious matter to conscious matter?


how do you create something from nothing?

I view consciousness as being an entity to itself, as eternal as energy and matter, not created, no beginning, no God, just part of the building blocks of the universe.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
i never stated that consciousness is the same for all types and i've also stated in numerous posts that it's scalar

And I said that I'm not sure what you mean by that.

And considering this reply, I also am no longer sure what exactly you are disagreeing with.
 
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