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Oh Look....

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Because there is no actual plan of action, or cooperative coordination between the States to ensure a safe transfer of this already vulnerable to exploitation population?

Or did I miss the part where Abott (and AZ Gov) called the New York and DC Govs and said "how do we get this done?".

Edit: this whole ploy is political grandstanding at the expense of treating these people as expendable.

Well, there should be a plan of action which should be coordinated at the top, as this is a national issue. Why does it have to be where every state has to fend for itself without any help from other states? I know that, at least in my own state, there have been groups trying to help, scrambling to find shelter and other necessities for these people - but there's also homeless and a lot of poverty here, too.

Abbott and Ducey are definitely right-wing scumbags for exacerbating the problem, but the root of the problem rests in NYC and Wall Street, as they're center of the economy, and as such, they're the primary cause of the massive poverty across the U.S. - and far worse poverty in Latin America.

Manhattan has a 10% housing vacancy rate, and it's even higher among luxury housing (source: NYC Apartment Vacancy Rate Jumps Up, But ‘Housing Emergency’ Status Survives - THE CITY). They have deep pockets and plenty of vacant homes available, far better off than the poverty-stricken southern tier of the U.S. They have the infrastructure and the vast wealth to handle it, far more than the impoverished small towns and cities along the border.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I can't help but notice that policies resulting in illegals
entering the country are formed by powers that don't
experience the issue first hand. Sure it's wrong to
play politics with the lives of these immigrants. But
it's also educational to people who make the rules
without enduring the consequences.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Why should Texas have to deal with the problem on their own?

It's their problem. Texas is nobody's friend and not on team America. They're threatening secession. Legal action needs to be taken against Abbot and Texas for such an egregious act. And the cost of dealing with these immigrants ought to be deducted from Medicare payments to the state.

Seems like conservatives are helping the illegals by calling attention to their situation.

Yeah, those cages full of children were a big wake-up call. Thanks for the heads up. Those brown people owe a great debt to conservatives for bringing their plight to public attention.

What is interesting is how these States changed their tunes when they have to personally deal with illegal immigration.

What's interesting is how you changed your tune about mercy. You were calling for mercy for a white, gun-loving, "grandma" who came to cause trouble January 6th, but these brown people don't seem to get much empathy from. What would Jesus say was the right thing to have done? Did they do it? Have you called for it?

Sorry, but Christianity doesn't come close to meeting its claims for itself. If you want to see the Golden Rule in play, look to the humanists. They walk the walk. Just look at this thread to see what kind of people collect on either side of discussions like this one. Zero empathy at all coming from one side. Absolutely zero.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
What's interesting is how you changed your tune about mercy. You were calling for mercy for a white, gun-loving, "grandma" who came to cause trouble January 6th, but these brown people don't seem to get much empathy from. What would Jesus say was the right thing to have done? Did they do it? Have you called for it?
Only blue-eyed, caucasian Jesus, not brown Jesus.

Sorry, but Christianity doesn't come close to meeting its claims for itself. If you want to see the Golden Rule in play, look to the humanists. They walk the walk. Just look at this thread to see what kind of people collect on either side of discussions like this one. Zero empathy at all coming from one side. Absolutely zero.
What is funny is that the most decent and authentic Christians are the one's who don't tell us how awesome and moral they are, and are awesome and moral because they follow a rigid set of theo-political dogmas that are oddly at odds with what Jesus taught.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Yeah if you have to resort to insults, you are definitely avoiding the truth.
Thanks for the confession. But we've seen this in you for quite a while.

And be aware, making observations, even unflattering observations, are not insults. If something I said stings your ego, perhaps you need to reflect on your attitudes and beliefs and make adjustments.
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Thanks for the confession. But we've seen this in you for quite a while.

And be aware, making observations, even unflattering observations, are not insults. If something I said stings your ego, perhaps you need to reflect on your attitudes and beliefs and make adjustments.
Still avoiding, I see.
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
Only blue-eyed, caucasian Jesus, not brown Jesus.

What is funny is that the most decent and authentic Christians are the one's who don't tell us how awesome and moral they are, and are awesome and moral because they follow a rigid set of theo-political dogmas that are oddly at odds with what Jesus taught.

Your comments reminded me of this video that I came across on YouTube awhile back.

 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I am going to quote myself from another thread dealing with this issue:



Poor Little Washington DC Mayor

Essentially, I don't think "these states" are necessarily changing their tunes, just maybe slowing down the tempo. They are still concerned about immigrants, but are unable to provide necessary support for them all at once and are seeking resources.
I don't think anyone is anti-immigration. Just unfettered flooding of our borders without vetting.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I don't think anyone is anti-immigration. Just unfettered flooding of our borders without vetting.
So maybe we should stop undermining democratic leaders, overthrowing elected governments, suppressing liberal reforms, and installing genocidal, right-wing, puppet dictators.
Maybe we shouldn't have deported all the hard-core gang members from LA to Central America.
Maybe we should curb our appetite for cocaine, methamphetamine and marijuana from South of the border.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
So maybe we should stop undermining democratic leaders, overthrowing elected governments, suppressing liberal reforms, and installing genocidal, right-wing, puppet dictators.

Maybe we shouldn't have deported all the hard-core gang members from LA to Central America.

Maybe we should curb our appetite for cocaine, methamphetamine and marijuana from South of the border.

Yes on #1

Hard-core illegal gang members go back to their countries. If you break the law in another country, you are either deported, put in jail or both.

Yes on stopping the flow of drugs... which unfettered and unvetted immigration promotes.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
I don't think anyone is anti-immigration. Just unfettered flooding of our borders without vetting.
Unfettered flooding. That sounds like it causes a lot of damage. I'm curious what a damage a drowned child trying to swim the Rio would cause to the most powerful nation in the world.

Many people entering the USA illegally are doing so because they fear our system. Trump's brutality surely got talked about by those who were caught and deported. And many trump put in cages and forced children to separate from parents had entered legally. These were international crimes, as well as USA crimes. Of course Trump's DOJ would not pursue charges. But there was a massive pushback by citizens and humanitarian groups that forced the Trump administration to adjust their methods. They ended up moving facilities to secure locations so witnesses could not see and report the acts.

So no wonder people fleeing violence from their home nations think their best chance is to enter illegally. Very few who apply for asylum are granted it, and are deported eventually. A friend of mine does psychological assessments of Spanish speaking people who have filed for asylum and most of the stories of women being raped, and/or seriously abused by men in their native countries. Their lives, and the lives of their children, are in serious states of threat.

If republicans would agree to reform immigration so fewer would fear our system, and could benefit both the USA and these migrants, it would ease the load of illegal entries. But we see conservatives continue to vilify migrants and use political rhetoric to avoid any sort of moral concern for human beings. Oddly, most of these migrants are Christian. That doesn't seem to be a strong enough bond to feel compassion.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yes on #1

Hard-core illegal gang members go back to their countries. If you break the law in another country, you are either deported, put in jail or both.

Yes on stopping the flow of drugs... which unfettered and unvetted immigration promotes.
We'd already undermined the Honduran, Nicaraguan and Guatemalan governments, and installed a genocidal, right-wing dictator in El Salvador. There was essentially, no rule of law to arrest anybody. The well-organized gang members we swept under the rug ran rampant -- unopposed.

No, America's craving for recreational drugs is not abetted by immigrants fleeing gang violence and poverty. They're fleeing the effects of our craving; the narco states and drug cartels we created.

If you want a permanent, effective solution to a problem, treat the cause, not the symptom. The refugees are victims, not perpetrators.
 
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Mister Emu

Emu Extraordinaire
Staff member
Premium Member
Read some history. It wasn't the liberals who exploited a whole continent for a hundred or so years, suppressed democracy, deposed democratic governments and humanitarian reforms, who installed vicious dictators to suppress the masses and insure the majority of the states' treasure went North to American corporations.
Somehow, despite all of that, there wasn't anything resembling the crisis we have now.

I'm all for helping them rebuild their nations into success, I don't think that's achieved, or in our best interest, to institute or enable mass relocation efforts.

@The Hammer
My apologies, you did not claim racism informed opinion against mass migration.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Unfettered flooding. That sounds like it causes a lot of damage. I'm curious what a damage a drowned child trying to swim the Rio would cause to the most powerful nation in the world.

Many people entering the USA illegally are doing so because they fear our system. Trump's brutality surely got talked about by those who were caught and deported. And many trump put in cages and forced children to separate from parents had entered legally. These were international crimes, as well as USA crimes. Of course Trump's DOJ would not pursue charges. But there was a massive pushback by citizens and humanitarian groups that forced the Trump administration to adjust their methods. They ended up moving facilities to secure locations so witnesses could not see and report the acts.

So no wonder people fleeing violence from their home nations think their best chance is to enter illegally. Very few who apply for asylum are granted it, and are deported eventually. A friend of mine does psychological assessments of Spanish speaking people who have filed for asylum and most of the stories of women being raped, and/or seriously abused by men in their native countries. Their lives, and the lives of their children, are in serious states of threat.

If republicans would agree to reform immigration so fewer would fear our system, and could benefit both the USA and these migrants, it would ease the load of illegal entries. But we see conservatives continue to vilify migrants and use political rhetoric to avoid any sort of moral concern for human beings. Oddly, most of these migrants are Christian. That doesn't seem to be a strong enough bond to feel compassion.
This is so chock-full of false facts, preposterous positions, and absurd absolutisms as to not require an answer.
 
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