Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
What injustice are you complaining about? You should know better than to use a source that is not reliable.
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Fascism Plan F
- Thread starter Secret Chief
- Start date
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
How and why? What injustice? Just because she calls herself a "granny" that means some injustice has occurred?
She shouldn't have participated in an insurrection against her government, I guess. Do you think "grannies" should get a free pass to commit crimes or something?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Just in case you were curious here is an article that goes into why, even taking her cancer into consideration, that she still got jail time:
Idaho Woman, 69, Gets Jail Time After 'Needlessly' Distracting Police on Jan. 6
Pam Hemphill, who had flown to Washington, D.C. from Idaho on Jan. 5 to support Donald Trump’s effort to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election, had pushed through police lines three different times as the crowd outside the Capitol grew increasingly violent. She also encouraged her fellow rioters to push their way inside the building, and she was later seen inside the Rotunda itself.
Prosecutors say that when police offered to help her, Hemphill exaggerated her injuries in an effort to distract officers from more violent protestors.
Hemphill pleaded guilty in January to one count of demonstrating, picketing, or parading in a Capitol building, a misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail, a fine up to $5,000, and up to five years of probation.
She had requested a sentence of probation only. Prosecutors suggested a sentence of 60 days in jail, three years of probation, and 60 hours of community service.
Prosecutor Katherine Nielsen played video during the hearing that appeared to show Hemphill interacting with police officers who were trying to help her.
“I had to get out of that crowd,” Hemphill could be heard telling an officer. “I had surgery.”
“I understand, I don’t want you being hurt,” the officer said.
“I’m a journalist, they took my breath out,” Hemphill also said.
“I’m sorry for this situation,” an officer replied, before telling Hemphill to take refuge near a gate.
Hemphill, however, did not take any refuge, and a subsequent video appeared to show her encouraging the crowd to press forward into the Capitol instead.
“Just come on in,” she can be heard yelling at the crowd. “It’s your house, whose house does it belong to?”
“You just come in, come on in, come on, have fun, you just come in, it’s all you do,” she is also heard saying. “This is your house. Your house!”
Later, however, Hemphill presented herself as significantly more frail to other police officers.
“Are you hurt? What were you doing?” an officer could be heard saying.
“I got her,” another officer said. “Come on. Are you ok?”
“I got 40 stitches,” Hemphill could be heard telling the officers, apparently referring to cancer surgery she had had prior to coming to Washington.
Nielsen, the prosecutor, said that these interactions were an attempt by Hemphill to draw police away from protecting the Capitol building as rioters pushed forward.
“When another [police] officer offered protection, she falsely stated she tried to calm down the crowd,” Nielsen said. “These are not the actions of a citizen journalist. These are the actions of a rioter.”
Hemphill, Nielsen said, “repeatedly asked the police for help while consistently undermining their efforts. She needlessly drew resources from the police at a time they were desperately needed.”
The Jan. 6 melee was not Hemphill’s first time storming a government building: prosecutors say that in August 2020, Hemphill was part of a crowd that stormed the Idaho Statehouse—shattering a glass door in the process—while protesting COVID-19 restrictions.
Sorry, I could not stop. She is lucky that her sentence was so leniient.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Ohhh, she's the "It's your house" lady. I've seen that footage and I know exactly who she is.
I stand by my earlier comments and thanks for the additional information.
74x12
Well-Known Member
It was a riot not an insurrection. First of all no one really thinks they can take over the government by occupying a building. If they do ... then they're clearly too stupid to be a significant threat.
If this older woman who also has cancer by the way did anything illegal then so did the police who let them all in the capital building. Liberals riot worse all the time. They even burn down police stations and attempt to burn down federal court buildings and get a slap on the wrist. By the same logic used on Jan 6 they should all be in federal prison on insurrection charges. Don't hold your breath on justice being served there.
Jan 6 is about putting the opposition in it's place. A pretty obvious political persecution by the democrats. One guy is facing 28 years in prison because he wore a costume. He wore some kind of buffalo headdress so he's considered a "symbol of the insurrection" whatever that means. In other words he isn't prosecuted for his own crimes; but for what he apparently, supposedly symbolizes. A travesty of justice without any real evidence that he conspired any kind of actual insurrection.
The only people who really died on Jan 6 in the so called insurrection were actual so called "insurrectionists" themselves. Some of whom were killed by police. Ashli Babitt for example was arguably murdered. It's kind of obvious that her killing was not justified. Yet all these deaths are portrayed by the media as being murdered by insurrectionists when the exact opposite seems to be the case.
Controlled corporate news sources attempt to connect 5 police deaths with the Jan 6 event. Not one of those police were killed by so called insurrectionists. They either killed themselves up to months later or they collapsed from health issues. It's ridiculous that anyone takes these claims seriously.
I think mental health is definitely a concern for law enforcement but that's true without Jan 6 being brought into it at all.
I note that democrats could seemingly care less about the mental health or suicide rates of the political opposition they demonize and attempt to use color of law harassment and prosecution attacks against concerning Jan 6. They probably cheer on any such suicides just like they cheer on the unfair and political court proceedings.
The controlled corporate press has no integrity and is completely sold out. Much blood is apparently on their hands.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Nope, it was an attempted insurrection. Look up the definition. And that cops did not have too much choice unless they drew their guns and fired. And then you would have complained about that. In fact you have complained about that.
Wait let me look it up for you:
in·sur·rec·tion
/ˌinsəˈrekSH(ə)n/
Learn to pronounce
noun
- a violent uprising against an authority or government.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
It was an attempted insurrection. Stop trying to minimize it.
We don't know what other people think or know. We can only go by their actions. Like showing up with weapons and zip ties. Like building a gallows. Or chanting "Hang Mike Pence." Or busting down windows and doors, attacking police and security guards and breaking into a building filled with Congress people trying to certify an election.
You should probably let Republican voters know this fun fact, because they don't seem to be aware of it. I mean, how many government buildings have they occupied at this point, trying to get their way? They did the same thing not so long ago in Michigan, remember all that talking about killing the Governor for enacting COVID safety protocols?
Sorry but having cancer doesn't give anyone a free pass to commit crimes. If she had cancer, then maybe she should have stayed home instead and taken care of herself. What other liberals do or have done or whatever whataboutism you want to throw out there, doesn't give this woman a free pass to do whatever she wants. Oh she's a granny! Well so what? If there was a granny alive today that participated in the Holocaust, we wouldn't give her a free pass, now would we? Being a "granny" has nothing to do with anything.
Oh give me a break.
Jan 6th is about holding people accountable for their actions. You can't just let a President and a mob of people attempt to subvert democracy and then just carry on like nothing happened. That's how you get a next time.
Something like 150 police officers were injured that day. One lost a finger. Many had concussions from being attacked by the crowd. Some have smashed spinal discs and cracked ribs. One of them committed suicide a few days later. Others suffer from PTSD.
Ashli Babbit was trying to break into a locked room containing members of Congress who were barricaded inside and afraid for their lives. If she hadn't done that, she'd most likely still be alive. Actions have consequences. Haven't you seen the footage?
What's ridiculous is your attempted minimization of this entire thing, including the injuries sustained by all these officers.
I don't know about them, but you appear to be the one minimizing the seriousness of such injuries.
You should watch the hearings.
Feckless though the invasion of Congress was, it was
nonetheless the intent to install Trump as President.
The system worked. Trump is out.
But had there been enuf sympathizers in Congress
& in the military, Trump could've indeed become an
illegitimate leader by coup. We must always be on
guard for such corrupt threats.
74x12
Well-Known Member
You'd have to prove that everyone there was in on some kind of conspiracy. Perhaps a few morons were really trying to take over the government in some hapless idiotic way. But the majority of them were just protestors. The police let them in the capital.
Whataboutism is a valid argument. Hypocrisy is naturally illogical. Or perhaps it is logical if you could careless about integrity. But I do care. So liberals are out of hand and becoming more and more partisan and more and more like the Nazis they pretend to despise. I think they love antifa and BLM violence as long as it's their dog on a leash it's all good. They just don't like violent rioting when it's against them.
Oh yeah I'm sure it's about holding people accountable. That's what authoritarians usually do when some underlings get uppity after all. When will the real criminals be held accountable?
I would need that fact checked. I've heard otherwise.
Apparently, conservatives thought rioting was okay after watching the left do it all year long. Apparently it's only okay when the left does it.
It's all a controlled show trial. If you want fairness you're not going to get it there. Stop trusting people who have all the power and are obviously abusing it. They're just lying and manipulating people.
Legally speaking, if two or more people plan to overthrow the government, and at least one of them takes an overt action in furtherance of that plan, that is a conspiracy to insurrection.
You certainly don’t have to prove that “everyone there” was in on it. I don’t even know what you mean by that but it is nonsense.
A “few morons” are more than sufficient to call this an attempted insurrection, but the truth is there were more than just a few. This attack was planned and orchestrated, and quite a few people conspired to carry out that plan. This has been proven in court.
And we shouldn’t forget all the morons involved in the fake elector scheme. And all the morons who tried to pressure the Vice President to do something clearly unconstitutional. And we must not forget the moron who wanted the magnetometers removed so other morons could bring their AK15’s to the capital and then watched tv for 187 minutes while the government was being attacked and his own staff and family begged him to do something. All these morons were trying to overthrow the government.
The conspirators weren't too shy about their goals.
It doesn't even seem right to call them that.
Trump openly solicited "finding" the votes he needed
from officials who might could deliver. 99+% of the
bozos in the Jan 6 debacle seem to be in on it, but
without realizing there was any conspiracy at all.
74x12
Well-Known Member
If you're going to charge them with sedition then you have to prove it. If you aren't proving it then that's a breach of justice.
74x12
Well-Known Member
The methods they're using to obtain these confessions should be investigated by journalists. The government should not be able to use medieval like methods to attempt to coerce confessions from political dissidents.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
You should watch the hearings. There is a lot you don't seem to know.
No, it isn't. You don't get to do something wrong, then point at someone else and declare they've done something wrong too, so you get to be off the hook. Don't be silly.
The rest of this is nonsense. Liberals "pretend to despise" Nazis? Get outta here.
So "authoritarians" hold people accountable when they break the law? Nah, those are just the regular rules of society.
What authoritarians do is what Trump did on that day, and the days leading up to it. Making up lies about how the election was stolen from him and riling up his base to steal it back from the government and install him as the President. This is a guy who clearly didn't want to leave office. Hell, plenty of people, like Bill Maher, predicted Trump wouldn't leave office willingly. That he'd throw a big man-baby tantrum and refuse to leave. They were right.
According to all witnesses, Trump sat around watching the insurrection unfold on TV and did nothing. That's despite everyone around him, including his daughter, begging him to tell the crowd to go home and to call the National Guard. He did neither of those things for hours. And hours later, when he finally, finally made the speech telling the crowd to go home, lo and behold, they all started going home. He never did call in the National Guard - Mike Pence had to do that because his own life was in danger. Trump didn't care. Again, that's according to all witnesses who have all been staunch Republicans. Trump's actions that day were reckless and potentially criminal. Remember how a bunch of his staff quit after the insurrection happened? Those were people who supported him, for goodness sake, and even they knew this was bad news.
Have you bothered watching any of the hearings?
You've heard otherwise about what?
Which part?
The injured officers:
Officers maced, trampled: Docs expose depth of Jan. 6 chaos
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...743642-60e2-11eb-9430-e7c77b5b0297_story.html
At least 17 police officers remain out of work with injuries from the Capitol attack
U.S. Capitol Police officer describes facing mob to Jan. 6 panel
One of the officers who testified at the hearings sustained so many injuries and had to undergo so many surgeries and rehabilitation, that he can't go back to work. After the hearing, the other witness who had been part of the insurrection, apologized to this man.
After hearing, Capitol rioter apologizes to police officer injured on Jan. 6
As to what Ashli Babbitt was doing ...
Video shows new angle of Ashli Babbitt shooting inside Capitol
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2021/01/08/ashli-babbitt-shooting-video-capitol/
Officer who shot Ashli Babbitt speaks after months in hiding: ‘I saved countless lives’
Department of Justice Closes Investigation into the Death of Ashli Babbitt
Well, if they're stupid enough to think they're going to get off committing crimes because somebody else committed crimes, that's on them. That's not how the law works. Next time you're in court try using that line and see how far it gets you. "Hey Judge, some other guys also robbed banks and some didn't get caught and sent to prison so I should get to go free!" Good luck with that.
Thousands of BLM and Antifa protestors have been arrested, to date. So perhaps these genius conservatives should have realized there would be consequences for their actions as well.
It sounds to me like you haven't watched any of it, so I'm not sure how you've drawn that conclusion. It's a hearing, not a trial, for starters. You know, like the Watergate hearings? Were those an "authoritarian" overreach too?
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SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
What the ... ? Where did you come up with that??
74x12
Well-Known Member
From what the prisoners themselves have said yes they are being mistreated and denied basic human rights that all prisoners get. We have political persecution going on. It's disgusting and a stain on American history. They're using color of law to oppress and criminalize political dissent. Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, Jan 6 political prisoners ... and the list keeps growing. Wake up.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Why are you inventing excuses as you are virtually trying to have it both ways in the context of evidence dealing with the rather obvious insurrection attempt?
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
So help me out. The firing of people whose jobs are largely unlawful to begin with is Facism how?
Secret Chief
nirvana is samsara
Help me out. How are the jobs largely unlawful?