Francis I has apologized

Shadow Wolf · Jul 27, 2022

Scolopendra said:
Not the one that the pseudofascists or american conservatives like. The Europe of the Belle Epoque, of the empires and the supposed beacon of civilization is dead. But this doesn't preclude something new to rise from the ashes

Groups like them tend to have a seriously whack view of European history anyways. Like Marjorie Tyler harping on about Anglo-Saxon norms. I'll bet every penny I'll ever make and say Americans of an actual Anglo-Saxon heritage are rare and a minority in America, especially as the Anglo-Saxon isn't even common in England.

Lyndon · Jul 27, 2022

Shadow Wolf said:
So? One doesn't speak for all, the Pope is the head of centuries of of oppression, he's the face behind recently discovered murdered children, and he is of an entirely different culture and religion and has done nothing traditionally required to earn the right and privilege to wear such a headdress.

Actually the Pope is from Argentina, where most of the population is at least part indigenous

Shadow Wolf · Jul 27, 2022

Lyndon said:
Actually the Pope is from Argentina, where most of the population is at least part indigenous

He's Catholic.

Lyndon · Jul 27, 2022

Shadow Wolf said:
He's Catholic.

what a statement, profound observation!

Shadow Wolf · Jul 27, 2022

Lyndon said:
what a statement, profound observation!

As is the one pointing out he's Argentinian.
What is he? Who is he? What and who does he represent? Who and what does he lead?
And what of it him being Argentinian? It's heavily Hispanic, and that tends to be heavily Catholic. The current Pope is all of that.

Scolopendra · Jul 28, 2022

Lyndon said:
Actually the Pope is from Argentina, where most of the population is at least part indigenous

Argentina is one of the least indigenous countries in South America.

Estro Felino · Jul 28, 2022

Lyndon said:
Actually the Pope is from Argentina, where most of the population is at least part indigenous

Argentinians are Italians by 60%.

Shadow Wolf · Jul 28, 2022

Scolopendra said:
Argentina is one of the least indigenous countries in South America.

Well, even most Americans of any color with family here for a few generations or more have at least a splash of Native in them. So, there's that.

PruePhillip · Jul 28, 2022

lewisnotmiller said:
This is kinda a strange post.
What point are you driving at here?

England my lionheart said:
Are you?,I don’t live in the USA so doesn’t impact me,it does make me sad that the religious in the USA are trying their best to go backwards with taking away pro choice,bit like how they treated the indigenous people,no choice.

What am I driving? A point of view outside of the fashionable ones you are familiar with - like killing unborn children, dumping grandparents into nursing homes and euthenasing them, decriminalising drugs, sterilizing kids etc..
The Pope 'apologizes' for the colonization of North America? At a time when record numbers of Catholics are migrating to the same place?
To be fair the Pope must CONDEMN Hispanics crossing into the USA - this is colonization after all.
And the Pope must call upon all non-indigenous Americans to leave the continent. And those left need to hand over their cars, air conditioners, shoes, matches, steel axes etc and return to their living-in-harmony-with-nature-and-each-other-without-Christianity life styles.
Otherwise, the Pope needs to not get involved with politics and the ideological idiots who drive the world today.

Scolopendra · Jul 28, 2022

Estro Felino said:
Argentinians are Italians by 60%.

Some estimates go as far as 80%. We consider them our little exotic brothers lol

Wandering Monk · Jul 28, 2022

Estro Felino said:
There is a beautiful Canadian movie The black robe.
Set in the Canada of the 17th century. It is very insightful and made me understand so many things.
The Church is really repented.
I am really convinced about it.

I will be convinced when 'the Church' compensates native Americans for the harm it caused.

metis · Jul 28, 2022

England my lionheart said:
I’m sticking with “the church”,I believe it’s accurate to say that it’s rotten all the way to the top imo.

How can an organization of almost 2 billion people be "rotten all the way to the top"? Is the United States "rotten all the way to the top" with the atrocities that we have done over the centuries? How about the UK?

England my lionheart · Jul 28, 2022

metis said:
How can an organization of almost 2 billion people be "rotten all the way to the top"? Is the United States "rotten all the way to the top" with the atrocities that we have done over the centuries? How about the UK?

Im talking about the structure of the clergy from the paedophile priests and the ones above them who knew about it.

From the Jesuits who stripped away native peoples of their identity and way of life,to the many popes who interfered in politics especially in Europe.

The Uk has committed many atrocities no doubt about that and so has America but the clergy of the church are in a position of trust,all those poor children that suffered because the church turned a blind eye.

RestlessSoul · Jul 28, 2022

England my lionheart said:
Too little too late imo,South America suffered too,in fact wherever the church went in the world to spread their version of love ended up spreading abuse famine and decease.

You think it was God that lead Europeans to the Americas? Think you’ll find it was gold that drew them there. Of course the church was tainted by association with colonialism, but the church didn’t build a single ship, nor fill it with slaves and gold.

metis · Jul 28, 2022

England my lionheart said:
The Uk has committed many atrocities no doubt about that and so has America but the clergy of the church are in a position of trust,

All governmental leaders are also in a "position of trust", so how is that any different?

England my lionheart said:
...all those poor children that suffered because the church turned a blind eye.

I totally agree with you, thus I offer no excuses.

England my lionheart · Jul 28, 2022

RestlessSoul said:
You think it was God that lead Europeans to the Americas? Think you’ll find it was gold that drew them there. Of course the church was tainted by association with colonialism, but the church didn’t build a single ship, nor fill it with slaves and gold.

Who said God did it?,the church is run by humans,the pope in 1588 encouraged the Spanish Armada among other attempts to rid the world of heretics like Elizabeth I,the church didn’t need slaves,it already had plethora of those.

England my lionheart · Jul 28, 2022

metis said:
All governmental leaders are also in a "position of trust", so how is that any different?

I totally agree with you, thus I offer no excuses.

I agree about governmental leaders like Blair and Bush that caused a lot of deaths and instability because of there bare faced lies,funny enough Blair became a catholic just when it became apparent he lied so a few “Hail Marys” it’s all good.

I also agree that there are no excuses.

Kelly of the Phoenix · Jul 28, 2022

Stonetree said:
The history of the Catholic Church includes using followers' donations to build hospitals, feed the hungry and other attempts to solve social problems.....Why are Catholics accused of imposing their views on others in a country where voters are said to decide policy?

While I’m not one, try being a trans man needing an abortion and tell me how great catholic hospitals are.

Evangelicalhumanist · Jul 28, 2022

Stonetree said:
The history of the Catholic Church includes using followers' donations to build hospitals, feed the hungry and other attempts to solve social problems.....Why are Catholics accused of imposing their views on others in a country where voters are said to decide policy?

You should watch this wonderful debate...

RestlessSoul · Jul 28, 2022

England my lionheart said:
Who said God did it?,the church is run by humans,the pope in 1588 encouraged the Spanish Armada among other attempts to rid the world of heretics like Elizabeth I,the church didn’t need slaves,it already had plethora of those.

Yeah, you missed the point completely there. No one is absolving the church of blame. I was merely pointing out that the driving force behind European imperialism most certainly was not religion. It is dishonest and disingenuous imo, to apportion all blame for the crimes against indigenous people to the church, if the real criminals are not held equally to account. That would pretty much include all the monarchs, aristocrats, parliaments and commercial enterprises of Europe, and all the billionaire families of America, not just the religious institutions. But I don’t see Lloyds of London, The Duke of Westminster or the Rockefellers asking anyone’s forgiveness for getting rich from slavery, pillage, and plunder.

Francis I has apologized

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