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I'm spiritually tired
- Thread starter Sand Dancer
- Start date
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
No. I got all my answers. I completed the search.
Ella S.
*temp banned*
I was just having a conversation with someone about what DnD character alignment a personification of the universe would have. I argued Lawful Evil, because it follows a physical order scrupulously but it seems to do so somewhat callously due to the existence of what philosophers call "natural evil" like disease, parasites, and natural disasters.
I was in a particularly bad mood at the time, lol, and after making my argument I realized that one could easily argue that the universe is Lawful Good, where natural evil is a product of being rigidly lawful rather than being evil.
I could make an argument that, if the universe was evil, then humanity would never have evolved a conscience to begin with and would still operate on a primitive notion of egoist Social Darwinism. So the universe would have to, at the very least, be Lawful Neutral.
It is a bit of a silly discussion, but I think the arguments someone comes up with one way or the other can be very revealing.
Scolopendra
Member
Why bother finding a label? You can create your own personal path that feels true to you
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
On my part, I strongly believe that conscience is a product of society. Where is ego involved in this? Society sees what is beneficial for it and institutes those rules. Then generations teach these rules to their young ones.
People themselves make simple things complicated.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
Ah, yeah, the Problem of Evil. Not sure that conundrum has a solution really; other than to observe, that we must say Yes to life, and try to be a candle in the darkness. Perhaps that is the answer - without the darkness, we wouldn’t be able to see the light at all.
Ella S.
*temp banned*
I think morality is a product of society, but I think that's different from conscience. I think people genuinely feel things like compassion and empathy, and are genuinely disgusted by acts of cruelty and selfishness.
Reciprocal altruism helps our species survive at the expense of individual members, and we aren't even the only species to develop it as an evolutionary strategy.
I think veneer theory is too pessimistic, although I think I can sympathize with the cynicism of those who often propose it.
Definition of "pantheist:" 1. tolerates all Gods 2. universe is a manifestation of God. (Oxford Dictionary).
Reasons to believe:
1. Complexity (of life, of the universe) seems intelligently designed, though all evidence points to evolution, which could be traced, step by step between the various forms of life using DNA and analysis of the structure of creatures (which is how Darwin linked one species to another).
2. Feeling that there is a greater power. Perhaps it is a need for a parent though our real parents might be dead. We want someone to be responsible for helping us. If we have a stillborn child, we want someone to say that it is alright, and that there is a place to go in the afterlife.
3. Hedging bets. Maybe get a lucky rabbit's foot, don't walk under ladders, consult a palmist, etc. The belief that one of the superstitions might be right, so try them all. Fear not trying them (burn in hell for all eternity if wrong). Worry that a jealous God might object to belief in other Gods or belief in superstitions.
4. Find psychics who seem to always be right. They often will tell you that there is a God, and some say that there are angels. This is likely the most accurate way of determining if there is a God, since bibles could have been forged or they could be "made up" stories. It was common for story-tellers to go from town to town. . . maybe religion is just that?
5. Blend in with others (peer pressure). (Not the pressure that keeps the flying nun in the air...that was force of habit....a nun's garb is called a habit). Churches are social gatherings, and many times you will find that the congregation consists of atheists. It's difficult to teach Christian morality to those who don't believe in God. Yet, atheists seem quite moral. Morality is not always from religion.
I don't think that we need evil.
Obviously there are some people who don't feel compassion (Hitler, W. Bush, etc).
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
What was one's methodology to find the truthful religion, please?
The best Methodology, to me, is compare religions with " claims" and " reasons". One may name it " religious method" in ethical, moral and spiritual realm as is a " scientific Method" in the material and physical domain, please. Right?
Regards
Ella S.
*temp banned*
I don't understand why you think that's relevant to understanding the general trends in how our psychology evolved.
My point is that we have whole parts of our brain devoted to our "moral intuition" and prosocial emotions. Even if some people are born with mutations or suffer accidents that prevent these parts from functioning normally, they're still a facet of our species.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Sorry, I don't agree. Truth is dynamic, it is living not a dead still, please.My experience is different. Truth is an immovable rock. If it does not sit still, then it is not the truth. Truth has to be unchanging.
Regards
Is it possible that the universe doesn't have a personality, but it merely is?
Ella S.
*temp banned*
That's why part of the thought experiment was to personify the universe. I don't believe that the universe has a personality.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
The universe has characteristics, therefore it’s fair to say it has a character. Or multiple characters.
Truth is often on a gray scale.
We are not supposed to kill, but W. Bush said that he was "fighting evil" so he lied about Niger selling uranium to Iraq (so he could torture and kill the people of Niger, and steal their resources and country). On the one hand, some felt that the US had to fight someone following the 911 attack (didn't matter that we had the wrong enemy, as long as they resided somewhat in the Middle East). On the other hand, we could have done nothing in the aftermath of the 911 attack (pretty much as we did nothing after the two truck bomb attacks of the World Trade Center that preceeded it). But doing nothing is like being a sitting duck, waiting for the next attack.
So, it was a gray scale judgement (defy God and kill, or be a sitting duck). Obeying God requires faith that God knows the future and knows the correct course of action though it doesn't seem logical to the limited human mind.
W. Bush wanted to torture people (it's fun. . . everyone should have a hobby). So, he sent prisoners (including an 8 year old, and a 13 year old) to Guantanamo, and very few of them were al Qaeda. Having tortured them for years (trying to get them to tell where the enemy is this week). Though W. Bush did his best to hide torture from Congress and the American people, the secret got out. Then W. Bush was left with the gray scale decision of telling lies about torture to hide it from the public and congress. What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive. W. Bush got his lawyer (Professor of Law, John Woo, of Chapman University, to redefine the word "toture" so that no torture was ever done by anyone. That is, Hitler never tortured anyone under this new definition. Redefining is another way of lying.
Though no intel was ever gathered (contrary to lies), the torture was deemed necessary. It was one of those gray-scale decisions.
W. Bush spied on telephone calls of all US citizens (Google Eric Snowden for more details). This was another gray scale decision.
The Iran Contra scandal of Reagan and Bush was a gray scale decision. Reagan had backed a Contra dictator over Sandinistas who merely wanted wages to eat and education for their kids (rather than slavery). Reagan, having been arrested by Senator Joe McCarthy as a communist, was trying to oppose communism at every opportunity. So, it was another gray scale decision.
Many bad decisions (most hidden from the American public and hidden from congress), are gray scale decisions (there is some attempt at being good, but mostly they are evil decisions).
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Neither good nor evil is created by any God. Both are just parts of life. It is not any God that wants us to follow good or avoid evil. It is the society which wants this. Religions attribute it to their Gods.
Hermit Philosopher
Selflessly here for you
Dear Shadow Wolf,
I feel deeply for what it is that you have had to bear. Sometimes, we’ll find ourselves in midst of trauma - such times are very challenging.
Most times though, our pain and despairs will either be about events in our past or about things that we imagine in our future.
A central aspect of spirituality is to train oneself to be in the present - is difficult but not impossible. When our consciousness dwells in the present and we remain attentive to what is before us in the now, we acquire the chance to actively partake/ interact with it from a more neutral perspective; a place with less personal trauma and more energy to give to what/whom we encounter at the time.
Your present is a place from which you have both the power and right to expel the perpetrators from your past. Cast them out! Remind yourself that you are not willing to assert their grip over you by living in what they bestowed upon you any longer: your present is yours; not theirs. Take back your power by expelling the reminiscences of them from your being.
You are not the effect/result of your perpetrators’ actions - they are! You will free up your presence and future for your own, autonomous being.
Sending you prayers of courage, clarity, patience and perseverance.
Humbly
Hermit
For many years until a stumbled across a religious philosophy that aligned with my worldview.