Frank Goad
Well-Known Member
I found this on this website Soul Sleep Disproved | Soul Sleep in the Bible
Soul-sleep Introduced by Heretics in the Third Century
The early church historian Eusebius had something very interesting to say about soul sleep. He wrote that the doctrine of soul sleep was introduced by third-century heretics:
“About the same time others arose in Arabia, putting forward a doctrine foreign to the truth. They said that during the present time the human soul dies and perishes with the body, but that at the time of the resurrection they will be renewed together. And at that time also a synod of considerable size assembled, and Origen, being again invited thither, spoke publicly on the question with such effect that the opinions of those who had formerly fallen were changed.”
So according to Eusebius the doctrine of soul sleep did not arise until the third century and was quickly identified as a false teaching. But according to soul sleep adherents, the early church believed in soul sleep and the doctrine of an immortal soul is the heresy that crept in. Obviously both cannot be true. We must go with the facts of history. The actual records of church history affirm that the early church believed in an immortal soul and it is soul sleep that was the heresy that attempted to creep in.
The majority of the Hebrews of the first century believed that the soul continued consciously after death. The Hebrew historian Josephus believed in an immortal soul. Likewise, the early church fathers of the first and second centuries believed the same.
In contradiction to the idea that the concept of an immortal soul came from Greek paganism, we find the early church fathers stating that their faith in an immortal soul came from scripture, or from the apostles, not from the Greeks.
We also find evidence that although some of the Greek philosophers shared that belief, the early Christian fathers were emphatic that their doctrine was that of the apostles and prophets of Holy Scripture. No evidence whatsoever seems to exist in either Hebrew writings or in the writings of the early Christian church that Greek influence had any bearing whatsoever on the Church’s belief in an immortal soul. The universal assent given by early church leaders to the doctrine of the immortal soul is clearly recorded in history. This assent, given so early in the history of the church, and so close to the apostolic age, is devastating to the theory that says such belief came later by Greek influence.
There are four reasons to reject the doctrine of soul-sleep:
and this:
The Resurrection – An Objection Considered
It is pointed out by soul sleep adherents that there are several scriptures which speak of looking forward to the resurrection, and then it is put forward that if our souls go to heaven it doesn’t make sense for the scripture to place hope in a resurrection. With an immortal soul you can go to heaven without a body. Thus, there is no need for a resurrection, or so they say.
This objection is easily dealt with. God’s plan is a complete restoration of his intentions for man before the fall into sin by Adam and Eve. He intends to set things right. God intends for us to have a body, as He originally intended, not like what we have now, but a glorified body that is not ravaged by sin, sickness and death. “Behold,” God says, “I am making all things new.” (Rev 21:5) Not “all new things,” but “all things new.” God restores what was lost in the fall. Resurrection is God’s intended goal. Our soul’s existence in heaven is merely an intermediate state. Our full reward lies ahead after the resurrection. Thus, looking forward to resurrection is still completely logical for those believing man is an immortal soul.
I have had many discussions with Jehovah Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists on this matter. One scripture they use is 1 Co 15:16-19: “For if the dead are not raised…then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.” They argue, “See, they are asleep, they don’t exist, and with no resurrection, they stay that way and have perished.”
First of all, we must always keep in mind that the phrase “fallen asleep” when used in scripture is a euphemism for death. It refers to the body in death, which appears to be asleep. It is not referring to the soul. The scripture never refers to the soul as being asleep, but as we have seen, clearly speaks of disembodied souls as being fully conscious.
Furthermore, when this passage is examined in context we see that it is not saying what they claim at all. It is not using the word “perished” to mean non-existence. Let’s look at the entire passage:
“But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.” (1 Co 15:12-18)
First of all, remember what it is that saves us:
“If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (Romans 10:9)
According to Romans 10:9 above, believing in the fact of Christ’s resurrection is key to salvation. In Corinth, some Christians were denying that there would be a resurrection. So Paul’s reasoning with the Corinthians is, if resurrection is an impossibility, then Christ is not resurrected.
Then Jesus was mistaken when he said he would rise on the third day, and all the disciples are lying about seeing him, and the Corinthians are believing a lie also. If such was the case, then Jesus is not really a living savior and thus all Christians are still in their sins, for there is no savior, and if that be so, then all Christians who have died, have died in their sins and thus they have perished, that is their souls went to Hell.
They perished because they “died in their sins.” They perished, not because they are unconscious, but because they found themselves in hell, being punished for their sins. When the Bible speaks of a person perishing it always means spiritual death, a conscious separation from God. Nowhere does the Bible ever use the word “perish” to mean non-existence of a soul. Paul says they perished, (went to Hell) because there is no real savior.
Likewise, in another passage we see that Jesus uses the word “perish” to mean eternal punishment rather than non-existence. Jesus said, “Unless you repent, you will all likewise perish,” he was not saying they would stop existing. He was warning them about the punishment that Jesus called “the unquenchable fire” in Hell.
In this entire passage about the resurrection in First Corinthians, Paul is not making a statement about the immortal soul, but rather is emphasizing that belief in resurrection is fundamental to salvation and basic Christian doctrine.
What do you make of this?I agree with what they are saying.What do you think?
Soul-sleep Introduced by Heretics in the Third Century
The early church historian Eusebius had something very interesting to say about soul sleep. He wrote that the doctrine of soul sleep was introduced by third-century heretics:
“About the same time others arose in Arabia, putting forward a doctrine foreign to the truth. They said that during the present time the human soul dies and perishes with the body, but that at the time of the resurrection they will be renewed together. And at that time also a synod of considerable size assembled, and Origen, being again invited thither, spoke publicly on the question with such effect that the opinions of those who had formerly fallen were changed.”
So according to Eusebius the doctrine of soul sleep did not arise until the third century and was quickly identified as a false teaching. But according to soul sleep adherents, the early church believed in soul sleep and the doctrine of an immortal soul is the heresy that crept in. Obviously both cannot be true. We must go with the facts of history. The actual records of church history affirm that the early church believed in an immortal soul and it is soul sleep that was the heresy that attempted to creep in.
The majority of the Hebrews of the first century believed that the soul continued consciously after death. The Hebrew historian Josephus believed in an immortal soul. Likewise, the early church fathers of the first and second centuries believed the same.
In contradiction to the idea that the concept of an immortal soul came from Greek paganism, we find the early church fathers stating that their faith in an immortal soul came from scripture, or from the apostles, not from the Greeks.
We also find evidence that although some of the Greek philosophers shared that belief, the early Christian fathers were emphatic that their doctrine was that of the apostles and prophets of Holy Scripture. No evidence whatsoever seems to exist in either Hebrew writings or in the writings of the early Christian church that Greek influence had any bearing whatsoever on the Church’s belief in an immortal soul. The universal assent given by early church leaders to the doctrine of the immortal soul is clearly recorded in history. This assent, given so early in the history of the church, and so close to the apostolic age, is devastating to the theory that says such belief came later by Greek influence.
There are four reasons to reject the doctrine of soul-sleep:
- The Hebrews themselves believed in an immortal soul.
- The early Christian church believed in an immortal soul.
- The Scripture speaks very strongly in favor of an immortal soul
- Those who deny an immortal soul allege Jewish and Grecian historical claims that are unverified and contradicted by known history.
- Soul-sleep is contrary to the historic orthodox Christian faith.
and this:
The Resurrection – An Objection Considered
It is pointed out by soul sleep adherents that there are several scriptures which speak of looking forward to the resurrection, and then it is put forward that if our souls go to heaven it doesn’t make sense for the scripture to place hope in a resurrection. With an immortal soul you can go to heaven without a body. Thus, there is no need for a resurrection, or so they say.
This objection is easily dealt with. God’s plan is a complete restoration of his intentions for man before the fall into sin by Adam and Eve. He intends to set things right. God intends for us to have a body, as He originally intended, not like what we have now, but a glorified body that is not ravaged by sin, sickness and death. “Behold,” God says, “I am making all things new.” (Rev 21:5) Not “all new things,” but “all things new.” God restores what was lost in the fall. Resurrection is God’s intended goal. Our soul’s existence in heaven is merely an intermediate state. Our full reward lies ahead after the resurrection. Thus, looking forward to resurrection is still completely logical for those believing man is an immortal soul.
I have had many discussions with Jehovah Witnesses and Seventh Day Adventists on this matter. One scripture they use is 1 Co 15:16-19: “For if the dead are not raised…then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.” They argue, “See, they are asleep, they don’t exist, and with no resurrection, they stay that way and have perished.”
First of all, we must always keep in mind that the phrase “fallen asleep” when used in scripture is a euphemism for death. It refers to the body in death, which appears to be asleep. It is not referring to the soul. The scripture never refers to the soul as being asleep, but as we have seen, clearly speaks of disembodied souls as being fully conscious.
Furthermore, when this passage is examined in context we see that it is not saying what they claim at all. It is not using the word “perished” to mean non-existence. Let’s look at the entire passage:
“But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.” (1 Co 15:12-18)
First of all, remember what it is that saves us:
“If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (Romans 10:9)
According to Romans 10:9 above, believing in the fact of Christ’s resurrection is key to salvation. In Corinth, some Christians were denying that there would be a resurrection. So Paul’s reasoning with the Corinthians is, if resurrection is an impossibility, then Christ is not resurrected.
Then Jesus was mistaken when he said he would rise on the third day, and all the disciples are lying about seeing him, and the Corinthians are believing a lie also. If such was the case, then Jesus is not really a living savior and thus all Christians are still in their sins, for there is no savior, and if that be so, then all Christians who have died, have died in their sins and thus they have perished, that is their souls went to Hell.
They perished because they “died in their sins.” They perished, not because they are unconscious, but because they found themselves in hell, being punished for their sins. When the Bible speaks of a person perishing it always means spiritual death, a conscious separation from God. Nowhere does the Bible ever use the word “perish” to mean non-existence of a soul. Paul says they perished, (went to Hell) because there is no real savior.
Likewise, in another passage we see that Jesus uses the word “perish” to mean eternal punishment rather than non-existence. Jesus said, “Unless you repent, you will all likewise perish,” he was not saying they would stop existing. He was warning them about the punishment that Jesus called “the unquenchable fire” in Hell.
In this entire passage about the resurrection in First Corinthians, Paul is not making a statement about the immortal soul, but rather is emphasizing that belief in resurrection is fundamental to salvation and basic Christian doctrine.
What do you make of this?I agree with what they are saying.What do you think?
