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Thinking of My American Friends Today

Audie

Veteran Member
States rights, right? Ever hear of Jim Crow laws? Segregation? Are you in favor of that again? You see no reason at all for the Federal government? All that, lynchings, whites only restaurants and all that, was post Civil War. It was the Feds that put an end to that. But you think they shouldn't have a say in States rights?

The Racist South, agrees with you. It'll suck to be a minority in this country again, once civil rights laws are wiped away. Outdid myself? I'd say it's spot on. It's a slippery slide now.
As if
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
If the sources you gave aren't good, find a good one please

The sources I provided you are excellent and you keep avoiding my point. You do a lot of tiny mistakes here and there and none of them address my point which is the following in bold, all caps and red for your convenience.

HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THE FACT COUNTRIES WHICH MAKE ABORTION ILLEGAL DON'T HAVE LESS ABORTIONS THAN COUNTRIES WHO DO MAKE IT LEGAL.

Seriously, what can possibly make you think making abortion illegal will reduce abortion if no such trend can be seen internationally?

Why would anybody support such legislation? Why would anybody want more people to die?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The sources I provided you are excellent and you keep avoiding my point. You do a lot of tiny mistakes here and there and none of them address my point which is the following in bold, all caps and red for your convenience.

HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THE FACT COUNTRIES WHICH MAKE ABORTION ILLEGAL DON'T HAVE LESS ABORTIONS THAN COUNTRIES WHO DO MAKE IT LEGAL.

Seriously, what can possibly make you think making abortion illegal will reduce abortion if no such trend can be seen internationally?
Hey!! I have a great idea for our opioid crisis. Let's just make them illegal!
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
Hey!! I have a great idea for our opioid crisis. Let's just make them illegal!

Seriously when will authoritarian start to use their brain a little bit and study why certain prohibition work and others don't. It would save everybody a lot of time and energy. Fine, you want to reduce elective abortion to null to protect unborn children. I believe this is stupid, but hey let's do it for lolz. Banning abortion? It doesn't really works and only make them more deadly for women so no net unborn children saved since you can't kill a woman, but not the fetus at the same time. Why doesn't it work?

1) Abortions are highly, highly desirable. Seriously they can save women and their families from financial and social ruin.
2) Abortions are really easy. The drugs required to induce abortion prior to 12 weeks of gestation are simple to produce, cheap to acquire and extremely effective. Surgical abortion require only rudimentary tools and medical knowledge. Ancient Greeks and Roman could perform them.
3) While potentially dangerous in a illegal setting, it remains a favorable alternative in almost all cases.
4) It can be performed at home or in very discreet venues and can easily be explained by a simple miscarriage since about half of all pregnancies end like so anyway thus proving the crime of abortion, unless caught in the act, can be very difficult.
5) Hard and unpopular to prosecute. More than half the population of the US and even more so in other developed countries believe abortion should be a choice held by a pregnant women thus there is a wide acceptance for the practice even if it were illegal making denunciation less likely to occur, enforcement and prosecution less likely too for political expediency as well as to preserve social peace.
6) Abortions have a causal link to the improvements of women's material condition overall wellbeing of their other children and the country's economy.

If you have a prohibition that touches popular, important and desirable things that can be easily acquired by illegal means and hard to prosecute and prove all the while making a country more stable and prosperous you have a prohibition that will not work and just waste a lot of time and resources for nothing.

PS: here's yet another study on why abortion aren't stopped by illegality though to be fair its from the same source than the others Unintended Pregnancy and Abortion Worldwide or for a more digestible vulgarisation of the findings: Abortion rates fell as countries made it legal and OK'd birth control
 
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Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
That's fine. You don't know American history. We do.

The Civil Rights Act of 1875 was meant to guarantee freed blacks equal treatment in public accommodations such as hotels, public transportation, and theaters. But in 1883, several provisions of the Act were ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in a group of five cases collectively called the Civil Rights Cases. The majority rule held that the provisions were unconstitutional because Congress did not have the authority to regulate private affairs under the Fourteenth Amendment, which protected a person’s civil rights from being violated by the state, not by individuals – such as when a hotel refused to rent a room to an African American. The Supreme Court held that the Act addressed social rather than civil rights, and was consequently invalid.

The Supreme Court’s decision created a ripple effect across the South. State legislatures began enacting laws legalizing segregation in public places. Those Jim Crow laws imposed segregation and denied African Americans equality and political rights. The Supreme Court upheld these Jim Crow laws in the 1896 landmark case Plessy v. Ferguson, which maintained the constitutionality of the “separate but equal” doctrine.

....

Many African Americans were eager to escape the legal system in the South and the miseries it caused for black citizens. By law, African Americans were denied access to the same institutions that were used by whites, like hospitals and schools. They also had few legal rights. Whites could assault or even kill blacks with little fear of being tried in a court of law or imprisoned. The discriminatory Jim Crow laws helped to perpetuate a social and economic system that kept Southern blacks subjugated. The majority of Southern African Americans lived in poverty. Those who did manage to obtain an education or excel at a profession risked becoming victims of violence by whites who did not want to see them rise above their supposed position.

https://americanexperience.si.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/The-Jim-Crow-South.pdf
"As if", that. It wasn't until the 1960's that the Federal government forced States to abolish these Jim Crow laws. Right around the time of Roe v. Wade too. So you think some States don't want to return to those good old days? That's laughable. What's that old saying, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"? The ripple effect begins again.
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
The sources I provided you are excellent and you keep avoiding my point. You do a lot of tiny mistakes here and there and none of them address my point which is the following in bold, all caps and red for your convenience.

HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THE FACT COUNTRIES WHICH MAKE ABORTION ILLEGAL DON'T HAVE LESS ABORTIONS THAN COUNTRIES WHO DO MAKE IT LEGAL.

Seriously, what can possibly make you think making abortion illegal will reduce abortion if no such trend can be seen internationally?

Why would anybody support such legislation? Why would anybody want more people to die?

Because of conscience?

Why do you go back and forth when the reports are good and when they are not? I already showed the failure rate at the risk of the patient is unacceptable let alone the after effects that so often happen.

I already showed you that after it was legal, abortion skyrocketed when you said it reduced abortions.

Why do I support it? Because a 20oz child in the womb is a person not a blob of cells.

Why do you support the removal of life?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Because of conscience?

Why do you go back and forth when the reports are good and when they are not? I already showed the failure rate at the risk of the patient is unacceptable let alone the after effects that so often happen.

I already showed you that after it was legal, abortion skyrocketed when you said it reduced abortions.

Why do I support it? Because a 20oz child in the womb is a person not a blob of cells.

Why do you support the removal of life?

You got the question wrong. Why does it not sky rocket in European countries. By the way, they are far more atheistic than the US. Perhaps Christianity causes abortions? At any rate we have a fairly good idea of why they are so much higher here. I was just wondering if you understood why the abortion rate is much higher here than in Europe. If you want to claim that Christianity leads to "bad morals", then go ahead. Personally I do not think of Christians that poorly. Perhaps there is another reason that you did not think of.
 

Truth in love

Well-Known Member
I have multiple friends living in the U.S. who will undoubtedly feel the aftermath of the Roe v. Wade reversal. I wish them the best along with other Americans here who also worry about this decision and the effects it could have on them.

Parenthetically, I find any ideology deeply harmful, inconsistent, and divorced from empathy if it favors abortion bans to "protect life" but has no issue with other measures that significantly affect or even threaten the lives of millions of people--such as anti-LGBT legislation, military adventurism, gendered discrimination, opposition to accessible and affordable health care for the poor, and retributive, inhumane prison systems.

Today, the SCOTUS has disgraced the U.S. among the developed world and among supporters of human rights whether inside or outside the developed world.

UN, world leaders condemn US Supreme Court ruling on abortion

I hope this period of regression in American politics comes to an end before it chips away at more hard-earned freedoms and rights.

So the US not having some of the most unrestricted abortions in the world is shameful?

The Courts actually following the law as written is shaemful?


Says a lot more about the values of those condemning than the condemned.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
You got the question wrong. Why does it not sky rocket in European countries. f.

Some European countries’ laws set the time limit for abortion on request or broad social grounds between 18-24 weeks of pregnancy, whereas others set the limit around the first trimester of pregnancy

Probably because they have laws?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Some European countries’ laws set the time limit for abortion on request or broad social grounds between 18-24 weeks of pregnancy, whereas others set the limit around the first trimester of pregnancy

Probably because they have laws?
No sources? And it appears that you are using a strawman argument.

Let's say we make a reasonable compromise. We could say no elective abortions after 22 weeks. Do you think that would make a big difference in the number of abortions?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
So the US not having some of the most unrestricted abortions in the world is shameful?

The Courts actually following the law as written is shaemful?


Says a lot more about the values of those condemning than the condemned.
But they did not "follow the law as it was written" They reinterpreted it again, and apparently without proper reasoning. And late term abortions could be banned under Roe V Wade and the late term abortions that were not banned under Roe v Wade would still not be banned. Yes, it is shameful when we try to enslave our own citizens.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
No sources? And it appears that you are using a strawman argument.

Let's say we make a reasonable compromise. We could say no elective abortions after 22 weeks. Do you think that would make a big difference in the number of abortions?
LOL... for you no statement is a good statement.

moving on.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
LOL... for you no statement is a good statement.

moving on.

So just more false claims on your part. Was there ever any doubt?

And why did you dodge my reasonable question? That only tells us that you cannot be reasonable. In other words, even though you know your holy book does not support you you will still try to tell people what they can and cannot do in the bedroom.
 
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