Islam like many religions doesn't have to worry about outsiders so much as they do insiders. The shiites and sunnis are doing a great job at discrediting Islam. Where is the peace?
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Should Bahaism be allowed to be practiced in Iran.
- Thread starter Link
- Start date
Sure sounds very nice at first. Until you think about it for a moment and realizes that beliefs guide actions, and therefore there is a responsibility that comes with nurturing them.
Not all beliefs are respectable. Not by a long shot.
Also, and more to the point, there is really no justification - and certainly no moral or ethical justification - for glossing over what is actually taught and preached by Islam and by the Qur'an itself just so that no feathers are ruffled.
Quite on the contrary, we all - including Muslims - have paid terribly high prices for that neglect, and keep doing so.
But all this is a bit besides the point, unless you are implying that criticism is a form of persecution. Which is usual for Muslims when they talk about Islam and the Qur'an, but quite mistaken - to say nothing of one-sided.
Yes, many do. I too wish they did not. It is a very unwelcome distraction from badly needed, well deserved criticism of Islam proper.
Constructive criticism is always very welcome because it helps us see where we are going wrong and how we might correct it.
Not always. And definitely not always by Muslims voices.
As a matter of fact, there is a well earned reputation about that particular point.
Sunnis and Shias marrying was a normal thing. This hate has been artificially created through colonialism in a way that is very unnatural.
Part of it was when Wahabi movement went around killing Sufis by a wicked interpretation of (1) that talking or seeking intercession by talking to dead saints constitutes Shirk (2) but the big problem, is not 1, but that you should kill them for their polytheism.
Sufi Sunnis believed in 12 Imams (a) in their own way, they integrated the belief in Ahlulbayt (a) and respected at the same time Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman. This is seen in books elaborating the spiritual succession or leadership or rulership and contrasting to the government or outward or worldly Caliphate.
They emphasized the 12 Imams (a) had the Pole and Power of Mohammad (s) in guiding souls.
Gog and Magog know, that in time, they can't cause a big rift between majority of Muslims (Sunni sufis at that time) and Shias.
So people were slaughtered and also through political pressure and hostility and propaganda and education systems under people who don't have this view, and speak against Tawasul as Shirk, etc, and mass money in propaganda changed the demographics a lot.
Sufi majority countries no longer had Sufism. And even now the Sufis that remain, don't usually emphasize on the 12 Successors and don't emphasize on unique position of Poles they had.
Instead they make their own Tariq leaders into the successors of Mohammad (s) when Rumi for example has a poem about Twelve Imams and put them in a unique higher position and doesn't see himself as a Successor to Mohammad (s) spiritually like them. No way.
Sufism is even losing it's original essence in emphasizing on Ali (a) the way they use to. Some of it remains, but it's not the same.
But aside from this, we still had relatively good unity, even with the propaganda against Sufism in general.
When Obama hired, trained and weaponized tons of people to go fight Assad, and those people promised to fight Hezbollah, no rational person can think of them as moderates?
Why would moderates want to fight Hezbollah?
Please. And alliance between Al-Nusra to Al-Qaeeda eventually lead most weapons going to ISIS and I don't believe for one moment this was not meant to happen in the calculations of Obama. He is smart enough.
And when we stopped them, you kill the man who stopped them primarily, a hero.
And what do Shias want for Sunnis? We want them to govern their countries not be ruled by dictators and US puppets.
This has been the stance of Iran. But Obama didn't want this. He wanted ISIS. And he wanted to create hate towards Iran by saying see they support a dictator while we trying to give you rule.
And we all know if Putin didn't get involved Shiites in Syria all be slaughtered and Hezbollah would have their hands full with Obama trained rebels.
We want Sunnis yes to rule themselves, but this is different then US training people, providing an unjust interpretation of Islam, Quran, and promoting hatred towards Shiites as these rebels promised to fight Hezbollah and giving them government.
Sunnis who fall to such slogans I feel bad for them.
You guys are trying to create a big rift and seeds of evil planted in the past, and its growing now.
Colonialism strategy is that they don't want us united. This is reality.
Inshallah, Muslims do unite, overthrow dictators, and don't fall pray to Satanic plans in the region. Time will tell what happens.
God, or unconditional love, isn't a respecter of persons. Mohammed was a messenger, prophet, big deal. The message and the one who sent it is more important
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
Propaganda that you believe. We are non-political. We have no enemies. You are not our enemy, either, just misled.
More propaganda. The international headquarters of the Baha'i Faith is in Haifa, Israel, but is completely independent of the Israel government. The Baha'is aren't even allowed to teach the Baha'i Faith in Israel.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
Obviously, you misinterpreted something @InvestigateTruth said.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
They don't do as they please there. They are persecuted there, especially since the revolution of 1979.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
Wrong.
Lo! those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Sabaeans, and Christians—Whosoever believeth in Alláh and the Last Day and doeth right—there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
Muḥammad ibn ‘Abdu’lláh, "The Meaning of the Glorious Qur’án", 5:69
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
Wrong. This is a subject that for once you know little about. The Babi's fought in self-defence against attack.
On the evening of 22 May 1844, Siyyid ʻAlí-Muhammad of Shiraz gained his first convert and took on the title of "the Báb" (الباب "Gate"), referring to his later claim to the status of Mahdi of Shiʻa Islam.[13] His followers were therefore known as Bábís. As the Báb's teachings spread, which the Islamic clergy saw as blasphemous, his followers came under increased persecution and torture.[22] The conflicts escalated in several places to military sieges by the Shah's army. The Báb himself was imprisoned and eventually executed in 1850.[66]
Baháʼí Faith - Wikipedia.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
There are Bahais in Iran. UN reports some 350,000. So, we cannot say that Bahaiism is not practiced in Iran. Persecution of religions minorities is a common feature of many Islamic countries. Even Bahais propose militia to keep dissenters in line when a Universal Bahai Rule comes.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
You are spreading propaganda, and you don't know it in your ignorance. It's true that in 1852, a couple of deluded Babi's tried to kill the Shah, but the faith was not born from that.
Bábís faced a period of persecution that peaked in 1852–53 after a few individual Bábis made a failed attempt to assassinate the Shah. Although they acted alone, the government responded with collective punishment, killing many Bábís. Baháʼu'lláh was put in prison, and, for three days, given neither food nor water, before being exiled.
Baháʼí Faith - Wikipedia.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
Look at objective sources, not propaganda. Or at least look at more than one side.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
Base your understandig not on your apparent misunderstanding what these Baha'is said, but by your own inveastigation and understanding. Clear this up @TransmutingSoul and @InvestigateTruth.
I asked Link to quote what was said. He did not respond, that would be because it was not a correct statement.
Regards Tony
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
There is one thing i don't understand, and that is the hostility toward each others where people tries to pull down an other persons belief, just because they either hold a different faith belief them selves, or has no Godly belief at all.
Why does it have to be like, a person ask a question to a believer, the believer answer according to their religious scripture and understanding of the scripture.
But people from other religions or especially non believers start calling out "errors" "evilness" "harmful belief" and so on....
And does not listen to the actual answer given.
Just because humans believe differently, and do differently according to their religious faith, does not make them wrong. There are many paths to the truth, people just see it from different P.O.V...
Why does it have to be like, a person ask a question to a believer, the believer answer according to their religious scripture and understanding of the scripture.
But people from other religions or especially non believers start calling out "errors" "evilness" "harmful belief" and so on....
And does not listen to the actual answer given.
Just because humans believe differently, and do differently according to their religious faith, does not make them wrong. There are many paths to the truth, people just see it from different P.O.V...
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firedragon
Veteran Member
Err. It was not called the Bahai faith mate. Read your own sources.
And your wikipedia page is full of your own sources. They are theological sources, with no authenticity with proper historical analysis going back to the Bab's time. There maybe some sources, but not the whole page. So see, I don't just read wikipedia pages like you to read about your own theology.
And again, the Bahai faith was non-existent at the time of the Bab. It came up later.
Hokkay?
Hmm. So do you claim that the books written by Bahaullah are not sources? I told Link to read what he wrote. If you think they are not good sources to understand your theology, please tell Link not to read Bahaullahs books and recommend some other source.
Thanks.
Speaking about propaganda, did you just do more propaganda? Also, I didnt say the Babi's didnt face persecution. So don't build strawman attempts.
Try to be objective. Take your own advice.
Anyway, I will be waiting to see you tell Link not to read Bahaullah's books because you told me that they are not objective and advised me to read more objective sources, not propaganda which means you insinuated Bahaullah's books are propaganda. Or did you just jump the gun?
firedragon
Veteran Member
Have you read any books written by Bahaullah and Abdul Baha?
firedragon
Veteran Member
Another one attempting to turn an irrelevant thread into an anti islamic hate thread. It seems like a disease. Mindbogglingly ignorant too. Why don't you open a new thread for your anti islamic polemics?