Very contradictory and illogical on so many levels
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Thinking of My American Friends Today
- Thread starter Debater Slayer
- Start date
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
No, it's not. People more or less get to choose how fast they drive with it only being illegal to drive above the posted speed limit. But it doesn't force people to drive fast.
With abortion being illegal there is no choice involved for getting one legally. There are no options are choices.
epronovost
Well-Known Member
Welcome to reality which is seldom intuitive. No, banning abortions doesn't reduce the quantity of abortions performed just like prohibition on alcohol consumption and purchase (except for religious purpose) didn't reduce alcohol consumption either. The same can be said about pot prohibition. It might be illogical to your hears, mostly likely because you lack information to make a proper logical deduction on the subject, but it's still a fact. Countries that banned elective abortions have slightly more abortion per capita than countries that don't.
For instance, taking the fed out so individual States get to choose to own Black people as slaves again? You don't know much about American history and the cause of the Civil war? There is a reason why we have a federal government.
Unless you are in favor of States choosing to enslave their Black populations once again? The South shall rise again, is a desire by many, and this is all part of that. "Make America White Again".
BTW, the hypocrisy of the right know no bounds. They want to impose the federal government to take away States rights to legalize marijuana, but want to get rid of federal oversight for things like safe abortions for females who need them? "The fed is bad, when we want freedom from laws, and good when we want to impose our views on others." Yeah, don't buy their disingenuous hypocritical lies.
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Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I was thinking that too, but slavery being illegal is part of the Constitution. As much as the modern day Republicans (they are essentially the 1860's Democrats) would like to reinstitute slavery that is out of reach for them right now.
It's based upon the 14th Amendment, which makes its basis Constitutional. That some radical Right Wing court chooses to throw it out, opens the door for everything else that depends upon it to go out too, like interracial marriages, for one.
Let's put it this way, there are things in the Bible that can be interpreted away to justify anything. It's no stretch at all to twist the Constitution to bring back slavery, if they can twist scriptures to justify anything they want too. Give it a few years and an orange authoritarian burning the Constitution, and indeed we'll be right back where we never really left from, pre-civil war America.
But what the hell, it's what the majority wants, isn't it? No it's not, you say?
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Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
True, but the wording is a bit vague which gave them the wiggle room that they needed. The 13th Amendment has very little wiggle room when it comes to slavery.
Audie
Veteran Member
You out do even yourself this time.
Slavery. Good freaking grief.
Audie
Veteran Member
It has happened. Don't pretend it always does. Or that some don't, rethink the impulse, and give another human being a chance to live
Makes no sense
To use your analogy - Some people choose to use contraceptives... it doesn't force them to have babies. No one is forced to have sex.
Drive too fast... problems. Sex without guidelines... problems
Not to mention you can still get an abortion.
Exactly... we should have any laws. No laws on murder because we still have murder.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Contraception sometimes fail. If that happens in an illegal state then the woman cannot get an abortion. There is no option comparable to driving faster.
epronovost
Well-Known Member
Actually, you should read more carefully. Banning abortion INCREASES abortion numbers. If banning murder INCREASED the number of murders then yes, we shouldn't ban murder, but banning murder REDUCES the quantity of murders. We should have laws that are effective at solving the issues we have not laws that hinder us or have no effect since these are a waste of time energy and money.
Do you understand the difference now? Does the fact hard fact that banning abortions increases abortion (or at best has no perceivable effects on the number of abortions performed) affect your views or are you more preoccupied by signaling your virtue from a position of absolute safety as a man than by the death of the unborn?
If protecting the unborn is important to you, why would you do something that endangers them more?
??? So for this exception we should abort babies at 9 months gestation? Aren't you really reaching here?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
I think our problem is you working in and reading assumptions into my statements.
States rights, right? Ever hear of Jim Crow laws? Segregation? Are you in favor of that again? You see no reason at all for the Federal government? All that, lynchings, whites only restaurants and all that, was post Civil War. It was the Feds that put an end to that. But you think they shouldn't have a say in States rights?
The Racist South, agrees with you. It'll suck to be a minority in this country again, once civil rights laws are wiped away. Outdid myself? I'd say it's spot on. It's a slippery slide now.
Actually, what I am showing is that you have to apply your statement across the board. IMV, it just doesn't line up.
But it is just my viewpoint.
epronovost
Well-Known Member
@KenS
For started, yes, legal abortion have been falling since the late 80's in the US. Second, your source doesn't make a per capita ratio either nor does it adjust for the population in age to reproduce. In the early days of Roe v Wade, the population of the US was a 100 000 000 people lower for example. Furthermore your source is for the general US population. It doesn't make a difference between the States with more or less restriction and availability of the service nor does it compare it to other countries in the world.
In other words while those information are accurate despite being pulled from a highly partisan source and certainly interesting it doesn't have any impact, positive or negative on my position. At best, it could reinforce the idea that legalizing abortions doesn't make abortion more or less abundant. Other factors are at play there.
For started, yes, legal abortion have been falling since the late 80's in the US. Second, your source doesn't make a per capita ratio either nor does it adjust for the population in age to reproduce. In the early days of Roe v Wade, the population of the US was a 100 000 000 people lower for example. Furthermore your source is for the general US population. It doesn't make a difference between the States with more or less restriction and availability of the service nor does it compare it to other countries in the world.
In other words while those information are accurate despite being pulled from a highly partisan source and certainly interesting it doesn't have any impact, positive or negative on my position. At best, it could reinforce the idea that legalizing abortions doesn't make abortion more or less abundant. Other factors are at play there.
but what source are you using to say it went down after it was legalized?