Thinking of My American Friends Today

Dan From Smithville said:

I was just complaining that the larger size of my fingers makes it difficult to remove microtubes from the centrifuges. Some things are relative I suppose.

It does seem like we put a lot of responsibility on the shoulders of women while removing or diminishing their freedom to operate within the space of those responsibilities.

Adversarial engagement has its place as long as it is constrained by reason and doesn't get out of hand. Though, I can see that sometimes a slap in the face does more than just make your ears ring. It has roused me a time or two.

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I like my size, would not change it.
But at 44 kg Il am not up for physical confrontation!

Don't get me started on the treatment of women-!

Audie said:

Disgraced? It's the constitution.There is no right to abortion in it.
It's not perfect. But who has a better one?.

In the US there are states with a degree of autonomy. Each can set its own laws in this.
Taking the fed out of it is not so earth shaking.

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Nor does the Constitution recognize the unborn as citizens with rights, yet the SC gave zygotes and fetuses the rights of born citizens. They also gave zygotes and fetuses more rights than pregnant women.

Suave said:

Thank you for your concerns regarding the SCOTUS ruling overturning Roe vs, Wade,
I am considering the notion of us urging President Biden to pardon abortion Doctors from being jailed for performing abortions, I would expect the P.O.T.U.S. to agree with having Doctors freed from imprisonment for the act of exercising their surgical skills in order to safety extract fetuses from being in utero.

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The problem is that the laws against nurses and doctors are state crimes, not federal crimes. A president can only pardon federal crimes. Governors can pardon state crimes.

Debater Slayer said:

Today, the SCOTUS has disgraced the U.S. among the developed world and among supporters of human rights whether inside or outside the developed world.

UN, world leaders condemn US Supreme Court ruling on abortion

I hope this period of regression in American politics comes to an end before it chips away at more hard-earned freedoms and rights.

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Standing up for what is right, IMV, always has their detractors.

F1fan said:

The problem is that the laws against nurses and doctors are state crimes, not federal crimes. A president can only pardon federal crimes. Governors can pardon state crimes.

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Thanks for informing me the P.O.T.U.S, can not pardon state crimes, that would be up to the governors to pardon state offenses.

Aštra’el said:

It is a great day, worthy of celebration.

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Tell that to the many women who are in difficult situations that have few ways out.

KenS said:

Standing up for what is right, IMV, always has their detractors.

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This is an idealistic right thing that has many serious practical problems. It has so many practical problems that it isn't right in the broad view of things. This is why republicans made the Roe decision in 1973. Republicans have forgotten why they decided Roe, but they will be reminded before too long, and I hope they have moral regret.

Dan From Smithville said:

Perhaps hundreds of thousands of abortions prevented, but we will have to wait to see how saved those lives are. Yours is a projection without evidence at this point.

If those celebrating really want to seal the deal, they are going to have to do more than post mantras on eforums. They will have to step up and support resources for those lives and the mothers and families.

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Nah, thoughts and prayers fix everything, right?

Thirza Fallen said:

Nah, thoughts and prayers fix everything, right?

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it is a lovely sentiment, but real actions, real money and real time are what will be required. I just wonder how much of this is about the ruling and not about the actual fact of these lives.

Audie said:

Disgraced? It's the constitution.There is no right to abortion in it.

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There was no Constitutional right to not be a slave and for women to vote. There's no Constitutional right to an education. There's no Constitutional right to a job or a house. We don't even have a Constitutional right to any medical procedure.
That's not a good argument to use.

KenS said:

Standing up for what is right, IMV, always has their detractors.

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Sure. Force choices upon people, let backroom abortions resume, put the government between a patient and doctor, always the right thing to do.

F1fan said:

This is an idealistic right thing that has many serious practical problems. It has so many practical problems that it isn't right in the broad view of things. This is why republicans made the Roe decision in 1973. Republicans have forgotten why they decided Roe, but they will be reminded before too long, and I hope they have moral regret.

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It is more of a philosophical world view IMO

Shadow Wolf said:

Sure. Force choices upon people, let backroom abortions resume, put the government between a patient and doctor, always the right thing to do.

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Every law forces someone. The laws on speed limit forces people to drag race at night. i know a family that lost their mom and dad because of it. So, remove speed limits?

Shadow Wolf said:

There was no Constitutional right to not be a slave and for women to vote. There's no Constitutional right to an education. There's no Constitutional right to a job or a house. We don't even have a Constitutional right to any medical procedure.
That's not a good argument to use.

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.

You don't know the basis for or against Roe, do you.

Audie said:

Disgraced? It's the constitution.There is no right to abortion in it.
It's not perfect. But who has a better one?.

In the US there are states with a degree of autonomy. Each can set its own laws in this.
Taking the fed out of it is not so earth shaking.

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It's interesting...so many people believe that whatever
they believe is right, it must be already enshrined in the
Constitution....or at least must be read into the law of
the land somehow. This isn't realistic, especially given
that SCOTUS will even rule against the Constitution
when it personally suits them.

We must face that some rights are hard won thru
societal change, legislation, & ultimately constitutional
amendment. Roe v Wade was weak. Now is the
time to focus upon other means to secure rights to
bodily autonomy.

Revoltingest said:

It's interesting...so many people believe that whatever
they believe is right, it must be already enshrined in the
Constitution....or at least must be read into the law of
the land somehow. This isn't realistic, especially given
that SCOTUS will even rule against the Constitution
when it personally suits them.

We must face that some rights are hard won thru
societal change, legislation, & ultimately constitutional
amendment. Roe v Wade was weak. Now is the
time to focus upon other means to secure rights to
bodily autonomy.

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I favour local autonomy.
Here, it's risky business to say so.

In the USA, people are outraged by given the freedom to choose.

There is no right or wrong side to abortion.
It's a tragic situation with no answer evident on any foreseeable horizon.

Audie said:

I favour local autonomy.
Here, it's risky business to say so.

In the USA, people are outraged by given the freedom to choose.

There is no right or wrong side to abortion.
It's a tragic situation with no answer evident on any foreseeable horizon.

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Right or wrong is personal.
No absolute truth at all.

Audie said:

There is no right or wrong side to abortion.
It's a tragic situation with no answer evident on any foreseeable horizon.

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I strongly disagree and think you are mistakenly placing pro-choice and pro-life as two opposite side of the spectrum on reproductive rights. It's actually not the case. Pro-choice is a middle ground position. It's the one which lets people decide by themselves if or not they should have an abortion based on their own personal value and assessment of their material, social and psychological condition. It lets people opposed to abortion the opportunity to never have one themselves and encourage anybody they know not to have one and vice versa. It gives reproductive rights and power in the hands of those who are pregnant instead of a third party; in that case the government.

Pro-life is the government basically saying to any women whose pregnant that unless a pair of medical doctor claim that childbirth or continuing a pregnancy could kill her, she will have to give birth (and then twist her arm as much as possible for her to keep the baby since foster care system is already overstretched). The opposite of "pro-life" would be the State decide if you can keep the baby or not; it's birth control by the State a bit like the former One Child Policy of China or the speculated and often supported policy within "degrowth movements" of "Parental Licenses" where prospective parents must pass through a class and fulfil a number of condition before having a permit to be a parent else they are faced with mandatory sterilization or mandatory abortions.

Any reasonable individual would say that in a situation of doubt over the correct conduct to adopt in face with a unwanted pregnancy would go for the solution that allows a maximum amount of flexibility and the ability for each individual to adopt their personally favored stance, in other word, give the choice to individuals and have the state support both avenues (abortion or keeping the child). Furthermore, since it has been demonstrated that banning abortion has a null to negative impact on the number of abortion performed (as in it can increase them more often then it lowers them) it is clearly a bad policy for people who judge the act of abortion as a morally and criminally wrong action. It's never good to support a policy which doesn't further and might even harm your own objectives.

Audie said:

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You don't know the basis for or against Roe, do you.

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Yes, I do. I am pointing out we don't have a Constitutional right to a great many things.

KenS said:

Every law forces someone. The laws on speed limit forces people to drag race at night. i know a family that lost their mom and dad because of it. So, remove speed limits?

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Speed limits don't force people to drive faster, and in fact many drive below the speed limit even during optimal driving conditions. Banning abortions does force women into human chop shops because she has no other options.