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The Source of Rights

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Yes, but it is also clear that the American colonists and then the Founding Fathers didn't see it that way.
Every person knows there is a shadow government in the home :D

I think on that aspect, God snuck that capacity into the Declaration :)
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Is that your way of saying that the US wasn't founded as a Christian nation?

If so, good for you.
The Pilgrims arriving in Massachusetts stated the same in 1620. Jerry Newcombe, author of The Book That Made America, paraphrased what they wrote down: "'Having undertaken a voyage for the glory of God and the advancement of the Christian faith.'"

Newcombe explained of the Pilgrims and Puritans who followed, "They came for God as opposed to coming for gold."

Mayflower Pilgrims 1620 -

:)

We do hereby dedicate this Land, and ourselves, to reach the People within these shores with the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and to raise up Godly generations after us, and with these generations take the Kingdom of God to all the earth.

May this Covenant of Dedication remain to all generations, as long as this earth remains, and may this Land be Evangelist to the World.

May all who see this Cross, remember what we have done here, and may those who come here to inhabit join us in this Covenant and in this most noble work that the Holy Scriptures may be fulfilled.

Jamestown 1607
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
The Pilgrims arriving in Massachusetts stated the same in 1620. Jerry Newcombe, author of The Book That Made America, paraphrased what they wrote down: "'Having undertaken a voyage for the glory of God and the advancement of the Christian faith.'"

Newcombe explained of the Pilgrims and Puritans who followed, "They came for God as opposed to coming for gold."

Mayflower Pilgrims 1620 -

:)

We do hereby dedicate this Land, and ourselves, to reach the People within these shores with the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and to raise up Godly generations after us, and with these generations take the Kingdom of God to all the earth.

May this Covenant of Dedication remain to all generations, as long as this earth remains, and may this Land be Evangelist to the World.

May all who see this Cross, remember what we have done here, and may those who come here to inhabit join us in this Covenant and in this most noble work that the Holy Scriptures may be fulfilled.

Jamestown 1607
So were they the ones "calloused by constant resistance against God’s Holy Spirit," or was that meant to refer to some other group of American Christians?
 

Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady
"Rights are not gifts from one man to another, nor from one class of men to another. It is impossible to discover any origin of rights otherwise than in the origin of man; it consequently follows that rights appertain to man in right of his existence, and must therefore be equal to every man."- Thomas Paine

"Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a
conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?" ( Jefferson, Works, 8:404; P.P.N.S., p. 141)

"Each of us has a natural right—from God—to defend his person, his liberty, and his property. These
are the three basic requirements of life, and the preservation of any one of them is completely dependent
upon the preservation of the other two. For what are our faculties but the extension of our individuality?
And what is property but an extension of our faculties?" ( Bastiat:The Law, p. 6)

Now I know a few atheist will get their panties in a bunch over God being mentioned in politics, but even someone who wholly rejects God can value rights being above and beyond the reach of elected and unelected officials in government.

Few people are miffed about Deism. It's not dogmatic or preachy.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
you lost me
- you said that the US kept enslaving people for 34 years longer than Britain because someone in America was "calloused by constant resistance against God’s Holy Spirit."

- I'd like you to tell us who you think was "calloused." Was it the Pilgrims or someone else?

- since political control in the US has only ever been held by Christians, I'm suggesting that whoever these "calloused" people were who held up emancipation, they must have been Christians.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I can't say it any better than what was written in the Declaration of Independence. What people do today isn't the subject matter.

Even the John Adams said "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

If we cease to be moral and religious, there is consequences.
Or why don't why just consider that for the bigoted, half-witted, ignoramus belief it is that you have to be religious to be moral and good.
Yes, I am saying a Founder was an idiot, a moron, a prejudiced buffoon who played into centuries of stupidity and hate against atheists.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
- you said that the US kept enslaving people for 34 years longer than Britain because someone in America was "calloused by constant resistance against God’s Holy Spirit."

- I'd like you to tell us who you think was "calloused." Was it the Pilgrims or someone else?

- since political control in the US has only ever been held by Christians, I'm suggesting that whoever these "calloused" people were who held up emancipation, they must have been Christians.

Yes... there are calloused Christians and there are those who call themselves Christians and may not be. There are carnal Christians, baby Christians, spiritual children Christians, spiritually young christians, adult and mature Christians. There are ignorant Christians. And there are Christians who renounce Jesus and let go of their faith.

Then there are non-Christians. There was the slave trader who was not a Christian who later became a Christian who the wrote :


who had his callousness removed and renounced slavery.

And then there are a pot-pourri of people. Like the muslims that enslaved people et al

But anyone who would treat people like they treated the people from Africa were calloused and those who are enslaving people in the human trafficking industry and the porn industry who, imo, are calloused also.

But, in our faith, all can change through Jesus Christ (not forgetting my signature)
 

Truth in love

Well-Known Member
People must live by local laws, not some universal concept of human rights.

If we don't have a concept of the rights there is nothing to stop the law from oppressing. If there is not standard of rights than murder can be the law (like in Rownada). Rape can be legal is the elites want it to be. I decline to pretend that this is good or acceptable.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
If we don't have a concept of the rights there is nothing to stop the law from oppressing. If there is not standard of rights than murder can be the law (like in Rownada). Rape can be legal is the elites want it to be. I decline to pretend that this is good or acceptable.

Some people have a highly developed sense of ethics, some do not. The same is true of law makers.

Rights go hand in hand with laws not, with ethics.

There is no universally agreed set of rights or ethics.
This is demonstrated in the USA with the recent reversal of the right of women to have an abortion.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Yes... there are calloused Christians and there are those who call themselves Christians and may not be. There are carnal Christians, baby Christians, spiritual children Christians, spiritually young christians, adult and mature Christians. There are ignorant Christians. And there are Christians who renounce Jesus and let go of their faith.

Then there are non-Christians. There was the slave trader who was not a Christian who later became a Christian who the wrote :


who had his callousness removed and renounced slavery.

And then there are a pot-pourri of people. Like the muslims that enslaved people et al

But anyone who would treat people like they treated the people from Africa were calloused and those who are enslaving people in the human trafficking industry and the porn industry who, imo, are calloused also.

But, in our faith, all can change through Jesus Christ (not forgetting my signature)

Historically as many white people have been enslaved as black. Slavery was the norm through out history back in to unrecorded times. Race was not usually the criterion.

Entire coastal villages on the English and Irish coasts were enslave by Barbary slavers.

Most African slaves were taken into slavery by other Africans and Arab slavers before being sold to European and American slave traders.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Frankly, I don't see it.

Have a great weekend as I'm shortly outta here until Monday.
Hope you had a meaningful weekend.

This is just a viewpoint on how I look at it. The priests gave 30 pieces of silver to Judas and didn't realize that they were actually fulfilling what God said was going to happen.

I just believe that when they penned "All men are created equal" - they were blind to the reality of equality (in Christ their is neither male or female) - but God was using that moment to open the door for His will to be done.

Opinion for sure but still in the realm of possibility.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Hope you had a meaningful weekend.

This is just a viewpoint on how I look at it. The priests gave 30 pieces of silver to Judas and didn't realize that they were actually fulfilling what God said was going to happen.

I just believe that when they penned "All men are created equal" - they were blind to the reality of equality (in Christ their is neither male or female) - but God was using that moment to open the door for His will to be done.

Opinion for sure but still in the realm of possibility.

Absolutely.. they never even considered that men and women could be equal nor that black could equal white.
If they thought of religions all being equal, They did not even think that other than Christian religions might one day be included or even significant in the USA. It did not come into their thinking.
 

Truth in love

Well-Known Member
Some people have a highly developed sense of ethics, some do not. The same is true of law makers.

Rights go hand in hand with laws not, with ethics.

There is no universally agreed set of rights or ethics.
This is demonstrated in the USA with the recent reversal of the right of women to have an abortion.

Yeah funny thing that after decades of a fictitious federal right to kill the supreme court noticed that it was made up. All the more reason to be grounded on actual rights.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Yeah funny thing that after decades of a fictitious federal right to kill the supreme court noticed that it was made up. All the more reason to be grounded on actual rights.

In that sense all rights are made up.
In time woman's right to an abortion will be reversed again.. A majority of the American people are in favour of it.
 

Truth in love

Well-Known Member
In that sense all rights are made up.
In time woman's right to an abortion will be reversed again.. A majority of the American people are in favour of it.

Well per the constitution the decision making for such a thing is with the states.

While many favor some abortion, I've never seen polls that support the unrestricted late term abortions that so many try to make the hill to die on.
It would shock many of the "we love Europe" crowed to see that Europe is vastly more restrictive on abortion that the US has been.
 

Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady
Well per the constitution the decision making for such a thing is with the states.

While many favor some abortion, I've never seen polls that support the unrestricted late term abortions that so many try to make the hill to die on.
It would shock many of the "we love Europe" crowed to see that Europe is vastly more restrictive on abortion that the US has been.

Sadly, with some if you give an inch they will take a mile. Those who favor all or nothing either want a total ban or unrestricted access. Neither one of those are where the answers lie. The moderate way isn't as abhorrent to the majority as the extremes are. The majority want it legal with certain restrictions. That is the moderate view. But why the extremists are running the show is crazy. But when you have 9 people ruling on our society, it will rarely be fair.
 
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