Thinking of My American Friends Today

Debater Slayer · Jun 24, 2022

Revoltingest said:
To clarify my position (rather than your straw man),
I favor that people do what is effective to secure
rights, eg, bodily autonomy.
If someone acts in a manner counter-productive,
eg, spewing vitriol that polarizes discussion, then
I oppose that.

Nothing we say here is productive or counterproductive as far as influencing laws or securing rights is concerned. The SCOTUS and Congress pay no mind to our corner of the internet, after all.

Good for you.
But please keep it civil so that you
don't merely engender hostility.
We've a job to do here.

I don't find anything I've said in this thread uncivil. You're free to point to anything you find to be an example to the contrary.

Revoltingest · Jun 24, 2022

Debater Slayer said:
Nothing we say here is productive or counterproductive as far as influencing laws or securing rights is concerned. The SCOTUS and Congress pay no mind to our corner of the internet, after all.

Hope springs eternal that my small influence
wherever I go might improve things slightly.

I don't find anything I've said in this thread uncivil. You're free to point to anything you find to be an example to the contrary.

I've not addressed this thread in particular.
But my advice is useful.

Audie · Jun 24, 2022

Debater Slayer said:
Very few legal rights are entirely unconditional. Besides, Roe v. Wade was also based on an argument for a right to privacy, so there could be multiple angles from which to argue for a constitutional amendment enabling it.

Good. That was enuf arguing.
Besides I am still traumatized by someone
savagely picking on me for having small fingers.

Debater Slayer · Jun 24, 2022

Revoltingest said:
Hope springs eternal that my small influence
wherever I go might improve things slightly.

RF discussions have helped to significantly change my own views over the years, so I share some of your hope when posting. But I'm still just debating other regular folks with no legal authority to speak of. Those with the power to secure or do away with rights are not concerned with our posts.

I've not addressed this thread in particular.

Then why were you arguing for civility while addressing me? If it doesn't apply to anything I've said here, maybe it would be better directed to whoever you believe the culprit is.

Debater Slayer · Jun 24, 2022

Audie said:
Good. That was enuf arguing.

As far as I'm concerned, we can argue all day and still chill over coffee afterward. My friends are especially immune from any hard feelings when I discuss things with them.

Besides I am still traumatized by someone
savagely picking on me for having small fingers.

As someone with fairly small hands, I have come to appreciate the superpower of being able to avoid misclicking while typing quickly on a keyboard.

As Finger-Man would say, "With small fingers comes great responsibility.

Revoltingest · Jun 24, 2022

Debater Slayer said:
RF discussions have helped to significantly change my own views over the years, so I share some of your hope when posting. But I'm still just debating other regular folks with no legal authority to speak of. Those with the power to secure or do away with rights are not concerned with our posts.

Many here vote.

Then why were you arguing for civility while addressing me? If it doesn't apply to anything I've said here, maybe it would be better directed to whoever you believe the culprit is.

Post #2 leaned towards animosity at them.

Debater Slayer · Jun 24, 2022

Revoltingest said:
Many here vote.

The SCOTUS arguably has more power than the POTUS, but nobody here gets to vote for the justices.

Maybe that's for the best, but it means whatever voters think won't directly change the makeup of the SCOTUS (at least not until it's time for a president to pick more justices).

Post #2 leaned towards animosity at them.

I've already addressed that. It said "many," not "all," and I stand by it because it matches what I've personally encountered and observed.

epronovost · Jun 24, 2022

Audie said:
Defensive? That's kinda weird.

If you think the " core" you referes to is
representative then i guess you do and
that's kinda weird too.

That extremist core is indeed fairly representative of the anti-abortion movement if only because they are so active within the movement and often leaders of said movement. The gun rights movement has a similar problem of particularly gun obsessed leaders at the helm of a movement composed of a lot milder and more reasonable people.

I personally broadly classify most anti-abortion people in the following categories:

1) religious misogynists who want to punish slutty women (these are the most vocal and determined in my experience)
2) naïve or incredibly stupid people who want to stop or diminish the number of abortions by banning the practice (FYI it as the opposite effect and these ones seems to be the most numerous)
3) originalist and literalist law nerds who value texts of law over people, the very concept of justice and their own society's health (pretty much exclusive the US political ecosystem though)
4) Anti-death zealots who oppose meat-eating, abortions, assisted suicide, war, the death penalty (very rare in my experience, but very determined)
5) people who are so partisan that even if they don't oppose abortion themselves, they will vote against it just because the other side wants it. (on the rise as of late in terms of numbers)

And my fingers aren't all that small.
Or at least they are in proportion?
The rest of me is kinda diminutive...

My apologies, I project my diminutive fingers on others. I too am small, but so are my fingers in proportion; I find solace in feeling that my penis is absolutely enormous each time I pee or masturbates.

Audie · Jun 24, 2022

Debater Slayer said:
As far as I'm concerned, we can argue all day and still chill over coffee afterward. My friends are especially immune from any hard feelings when I discuss things with them.

As someone with fairly small hands, I have come to appreciate the superpower of being able to avoid misclicking while typing quickly on a keyboard.

As Finger-Man would say, "With small fingers comes great responsibility.

Trump has small hands. So there ya go.

Audie · Jun 24, 2022

epronovost said:
That extremist core is indeed fairly representative of the anti-abortion movement if only because they are so active within the movement and often leaders of said movement. The gun rights movement has a similar problem of particularly gun obsessed leaders at the helm of a movement composed of a lot milder and more reasonable people.

I personally broadly classify most anti-abortion people in the following categories:

1) religious misogynists who want to punish slutty women (these are the most vocal and determined in my experience)
2) naïve or incredibly stupid people who want to stop or diminish the number of abortions by banning the practice (FYI it as the opposite effect and these ones seems to be the most numerous)
3) originalist and literalist law nerds who value texts of law over people, the very concept of justice and their own society's health (pretty much exclusive the US political ecosystem though)
4) Anti-death zealots who oppose meat-eating, abortions, assisted suicide, war, the death penalty (very rare in my experience, but very determined)
5) people who are so partisan that even if they don't oppose abortion themselves, they will vote against it just because the other side wants it. (on the rise as of late in terms of numbers)

My apologies, I project my diminutive fingers on others. I too am small, but so are my fingers in proportion; I find solace in feeling that my penis is absolutely enormous each time I pee or masturbates.

My apologies too.
Here I took you for some sort of
moderate.

I won't be ccompeteing in the large or small tool categories.

But I bet I could walk under a lower
bar and have more room on an airplane.

Revoltingest · Jun 24, 2022

Debater Slayer said:
The SCOTUS arguably has more power than the POTUS, but nobody here gets to vote for the justices.

The one voted for appoints the other.

Maybe that's for the best, but it means whatever voters think won't directly change the makeup of the SCOTUS (at least not until it's time for a president to pick more justices).

Justices are also subject to public
pressure to some unknown extent.

I've already addressed that. It said "many," not "all," and I stand by it because it matches what I've personally encountered and observed.

The qualifier only mitigates the tone.

Dan From Smithville · Jun 24, 2022

Audie said:
Trump has small hands. So there ya go.

Think of what he must save on gloves.

Debater Slayer · Jun 24, 2022

Revoltingest said:
The one voted for appoints the other.

If they're lucky enough and a justice slot is open during their term (and they face no obstruction to their appointment à la Obama).

Justices are also subject to public
pressure to some unknown extent.

Kavanaugh was almost murdered and he still went through with his vote for the decision. Not sure public pressure will matter much in the long term.

The qualifier only mitigates the tone.

Inconsistency and harmful views among a subset of supporters of certain ideological groups need to be pointed out and scrutinized. It's a crucial part of how movements improve and weed out their most problematic elements.

Revoltingest · Jun 24, 2022

Debater Slayer said:
If they're lucky enough and a justice slot is open during their term (and they face no obstruction to their appointment à la Obama).

Luck is crucial in politics.

Kavanaugh was almost murdered and he still went through with his vote for the decision. Not sure public pressure will matter much in the long term.

As I said, such influence is of unknown extent.
One cannot expect rigid results.

Inconsistency and harmful views among a subset of supporters of certain ideological groups need to be pointed out and scrutinized. It's a crucial part of how movements improve and weed out their most problematic elements.

I often address harmful views when encountered.

Debater Slayer · Jun 24, 2022

Revoltingest said:
Luck is crucial in politics.

As I said, such influence is of unknown extent.
One cannot expect rigid results.

I often address harmful views when encountered.

I have nothing to add, so I left a rating of acknowledgement.

I should sleep before a doctor's appointment, though. Have a good night.

KW · Jun 24, 2022

Debater Slayer said:
I have multiple friends living in the U.S. who will undoubtedly feel the aftermath of the Roe v. Wade reversal. I wish them the best along with other Americans here who also worry about this decision and the effects it could have on them.

Parenthetically, I find any ideology deeply harmful, inconsistent, and divorced from empathy if it favors abortion bans to "protect life" but has no issue with other measures that significantly affect or even threaten the lives of millions of people--such as anti-LGBT legislation, military adventurism, gendered discrimination, opposition to accessible and affordable health care for the poor, and retributive, inhumane prison systems.

Today, the SCOTUS has disgraced the U.S. among the developed world and among supporters of human rights whether inside or outside the developed world.

UN, world leaders condemn US Supreme Court ruling on abortion

I hope this period of regression in American politics comes to an end before it chips away at more hard-earned freedoms and rights.

Hundreds of thousands of lives saved.

Dan From Smithville · Jun 24, 2022

Audie said:
Good. That was enuf arguing.
Besides I am still traumatized by someone
savagely picking on me for having small fingers.

I was just complaining that the larger size of my fingers makes it difficult to remove microtubes from the centrifuges. Some things are relative I suppose.

It does seem like we put a lot of responsibility on the shoulders of women while removing or diminishing their freedom to operate within the space of those responsibilities.

Adversarial engagement has its place as long as it is constrained by reason and doesn't get out of hand. Though, I can see that sometimes a slap in the face does more than just make your ears ring. It has roused me a time or two.

Revoltingest · Jun 24, 2022

Debater Slayer said:
I have nothing to add, so I left a rating of acknowledgement.

I should sleep before a doctor's appointment, though. Have a good night.

Rest well.

Dan From Smithville · Jun 24, 2022

KW said:
Hundreds of thousands of lives saved.

Perhaps hundreds of thousands of abortions prevented, but we will have to wait to see how saved those lives are. Yours is a projection without evidence at this point.

If those celebrating really want to seal the deal, they are going to have to do more than post mantras on eforums. They will have to step up and support resources for those lives and the mothers and families.

Suave · Jun 24, 2022

Debater Slayer said:
I have multiple friends living in the U.S. who will undoubtedly feel the aftermath of the Roe v. Wade reversal. I wish them the best along with other Americans here who also worry about this decision and the effects it could have on them.

Parenthetically, I find any ideology deeply harmful, inconsistent, and divorced from empathy if it favors abortion bans to "protect life" but has no issue with other measures that significantly affect or even threaten the lives of millions of people--such as anti-LGBT legislation, military adventurism, gendered discrimination, opposition to accessible and affordable health care for the poor, and retributive, inhumane prison systems.

Today, the SCOTUS has disgraced the U.S. among the developed world and among supporters of human rights whether inside or outside the developed world.

UN, world leaders condemn US Supreme Court ruling on abortion

I hope this period of regression in American politics comes to an end before it chips away at more hard-earned freedoms and rights.

Thank you for your concerns regarding the SCOTUS ruling overturning Roe vs, Wade,
I am considering the notion of us urging President Biden to pardon abortion Doctors from being jailed for performing abortions, I would expect the P.O.T.U.S. to agree with having Doctors freed from imprisonment for the act of exercising their surgical skills in order to safety extract fetuses from being in utero.

Thinking of My American Friends Today

Vipassana

Pragmatic Libertarian

Veteran Member

Vipassana

Vipassana

Pragmatic Libertarian

Vipassana

Well-Known Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Pragmatic Libertarian

What we've got here is failure to communicate.

Vipassana

Pragmatic Libertarian

Vipassana

Well-Known Member

What we've got here is failure to communicate.

Pragmatic Libertarian

What we've got here is failure to communicate.

Simulated character