Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
My sentiments exactly, and I say that as an ex-Christian.
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What are the attributes of a worthy God?
- Thread starter osgart
- Start date
My sentiments exactly, and I say that as an ex-Christian.
Brian2
Veteran Member
Probably not now unless they trust in God.
They will be however when it happens, and they will realise then that God is just and they will not remember their suffering.
Brian2
Veteran Member
God is God and has the authority to judge whomever He wants to whenever.
It is not a good look at times but God does not care. He does what needs to be done.
Praising God for all eternity seems pretty boring,,,,,,,,,,, but then again, when we see who God is and what He is life, we might want to.
God could get rid of evil now but the consequences would be worse than leaving it till later and reaching out to more of us to repent so that we are not the ones God gets rid of when getting rid of evil.
We have the example of Job (Job 2:4-5) and Job knew he would be protected in death - Job 13:14-16
Daniel too (Daniel 12:13) would rest (RIP) in death but stand up again at the end of the days - John 11:24
If time was cut short we would Not have the opportunity to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us.
So, the passing of time was needed to fulfill God's purpose to populate Earth - Genesis 1:28.
As Satan challenged Job (Job 2:4-5) Satan challenges all of us.
'Touch our flesh... '(meaning loose physical health) and we would Not serve God under adverse conditions.
Both Job and Jesus under adverse conditions proved Satan a liar and so can we.
The ' evil god' is: Satan (2 Corinthians 4:4) Satan is the wicked one - 1 John 5:19 B
Satan 'the evil god of this world of badness' is the one who offered Jesus the world's governments - Luke 4:6
Satan could Not have offered them if they were Not his to give.
Satan challenges ALL of us that under bad conditions we would Not worship God.
Both Job and Jesus under adverse conditions proved faithful to God thus proving Satan a liar.
AlexanderG
Active Member
Which is worse?
1. Offering governmental power, challenging people's convictions, and lying.
OR
2. Intentionally creating sapient beings, with the foreknowledge that you would torture most of them to an infinite degree, then carrying out that torture.
If I had to choose, I'd say #2 is infinitely more evil than #1. I'd certainly prefer a being that does #1 to exist over the being that does #2. It's not even close. Also, according to the Bible, Satan does not lie in any instance. God does lie in a few different cases, like when he tells Adam and Eve they will die on the day they eat the fruit, when he says he puts false words in the mouths of prophets, and when he sends powerful delusions so that people will believe falsehoods.
Brian2
Veteran Member
Satan lied when He said Adam and Eve would not die.
The expression "on that day you will die" is a legal expression and is a firm judgement and does not literally mean "on that very day".
If however that is not satisfactory for you there is always the option of they died spiritually on that day,,,,,,,,,,, or as the JW believe ( and as URAVIP2ME will probably tell you) a, by a day it is meant 1000 years.
God will not torment people forever. The sentence is death and imo that is what the sentence will be even though those under that sentence will get the just suffering for the evil they have done.
You believe lies and are delusional
but God has not forced that upon you, it is your choice and the delusions are what those who speak against the Bible tell you. The prophets God sent false words to are the false prophets who would be speaking false prophecies anyway.
AlexanderG
Active Member
Satan lied when He said Adam and Eve would not die.
The expression "on that day you will die" is a legal expression and is a firm judgement and does not literally mean "on that very day".
If however that is not satisfactory for you there is always the option of they died spiritually on that day,,,,,,,,,,, or as the JW believe ( and as URAVIP2ME will probably tell you) a, by a day it is meant 1000 years.
God will not torment people forever. The sentence is death and imo that is what the sentence will be even though those under that sentence will get the just suffering for the evil they have done.
You believe lies and are delusional
The prophets God sent false words to are the false prophets who would be speaking false prophecies anyway.
Maybe ask yourself why you completely avoided the main point of my post, and instead fixated on a way to technically reinterpret one of my side comments. I suspect the reason is cognitive dissonance, and that's a good sign that you're a better person than the portrayal of the god you worship.
Brian2
Veteran Member
By attacking the minor points of your post, which were there to support the main point, I was attacking the main point.
I suspect you did not see that because of the delusions you are under.
Worse are the false teachings of Christendom (so-called Christians - Matthew 7:21-23) who teach torture after death.
Adam was told if he sinned he would die. No post-mortem penalty, No double jeopardy in death mentioned.
Both Jesus and the OT both teach ' sleep ' Not torture in death. The dead know nothing - Ecclesiastes 9:5.
Know nothing but -> sleep - Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; John 11:11-14
As with English the word 'day' has shades of meaning. We speak of grandfather's day and know that is No 24-hr. day.
Notice: ALL of the 6 creative day periods are summed up by the single word 'day' at Genesis 2:4
In God's eyes a thousand years is as a day - Psalms 90:4; 2 Peter 3:8.
Adam died within that thousand-year day time frame - Genesis 5:5.
In other words, No sinning person would or could live past age 1,000 - Genesis 5:27
So, Satan did lie at Genesis 3:4 that Eve would Not die. Eve is dead.
[QUOTE="Brian2, post: 7738971, .........God will not torment people forever. The sentence is death and imo that is what the sentence will be even though those under that sentence will get the just suffering for the evil they have done.
You believe lies and are delusional .......................[/QUOTE]
In the first place I find there is a BIG difference between: torment and torture.
In the Bible at Matthew 18:34,30 a tormentor was a jailer. Being in jail was the torment.
The God of the Bible neither torments nor tortures anyone.
The dead know nothing - Ecclesiastes 9:5 - know nothing but 'sleep' in death ( No pain in death )
Jesus and the OT both teach 'sleep' in death - John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18
Adam was told if he sinned he would die. No where was Adam told pain after death.
Adam simply went from non-life, to life, and returned back to non-life - Genesis 3:19
No post-mortem punishment, No double jeopardy in death just returning to dust for Adam and everyone else.
When the King James translated the word Gehenna into English as hell fire that put fire in death.
Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed.
What Scripture teaches is the wicked will be ' destroyed forever ' -Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22.
Sinner Satan is wicked and Jesus will destroy Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B
You believe lies and are delusional
.......................[/QUOTE]In the first place I find there is a BIG difference between: torment and torture.
In the Bible at Matthew 18:34,30 a tormentor was a jailer. Being in jail was the torment.
The God of the Bible neither torments nor tortures anyone.
The dead know nothing - Ecclesiastes 9:5 - know nothing but 'sleep' in death ( No pain in death )
Jesus and the OT both teach 'sleep' in death - John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18
Adam was told if he sinned he would die. No where was Adam told pain after death.
Adam simply went from non-life, to life, and returned back to non-life - Genesis 3:19
No post-mortem punishment, No double jeopardy in death just returning to dust for Adam and everyone else.
When the King James translated the word Gehenna into English as hell fire that put fire in death.
Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed.
What Scripture teaches is the wicked will be ' destroyed forever ' -Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22.
Sinner Satan is wicked and Jesus will destroy Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B
Brian2
Veteran Member
Torment is the description given for at least some who are thrown into the lake of fire.
Sleep is not annihilation. Someone asleep is still there and can be woken up.
The dead know nothing about what is happening on the earth.
The dead do not have praise and worship sessions or read the Bible or listen to encouraging sermons.
Adam went from nothingness to a living something and then from a living something to a dead something.
At the death of the body the soul lives on according to Jesus (Matt 10:28) and then God may choose after the resurrection to destroy both body and soul.
Death is what happens to all humans, sinners and the innocent (babies etc) and death is the consequence of sin but after that there is a judgement of people for the lives they lived before they die. (nothing in the Bible about what people sinning after death or after resurrection)
Death is the wages of sin but that does not mean that God's judgement is finished.
In the lake of fire Satan might be destroyed but will also suffer torment. Maybe the torment is equal to the evil he has done and maybe it is the same for others in the lake of fire.
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
One that's actually happy with its creation.
The Bible's definition of the Lake of Fire is : Second Death - Revelation 20:13-14; 21:8
A symbolic lake (Not literal) but stands for: destruction - The wicked are ' destroyed forever ' - Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35
Brian2
Veteran Member
It probably is symbolic of something else. Nevertheless it does say that people will be tormented with this symbolic burning sulphur. (Rev 14:9-11)
Maybe that happens before they are destroyed.
Yes, tormented ( Not tortured ) In Scripture, in Bible speak, a tormentor was a jailer.- Matthew 18:34,30.
Notice that Revelation 14:10 corresponds to Revelation 21:8 B.
The lake that burns... this means: the second death. It is a symbolic lake and Not a literal lake.
In verse 11 the smoke ascends forever as it also says at Revelation 19:3.
Please also notice Isaiah 34:10 about Edom/ Idumea
We know Edom is Not burning today so the 'smoke ascending forever' stands for: destroyed forever.
The wicked destroyed forever - Psalms 37:38; Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22
Destroyed by the 'sword-like executional words' from Jesus' mouth - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Knowing he is wrong as a man by he him his statements.
Saying all parents proven in national country did arrive spiritually as the same body type. As they all expressed as first the same mutual DNA.
So the origin body spirit eternal owned the same first.
And only man's metal machine god caused national fallout causing DNA the variation.
Country nation parent changed then were sacrificed converted bodily.
Why we know we are brothers and sisters.
When a scientist says I used hell my man's he will to use machines. Only I personally designed and mind controlled. Humans already manually mind control machines. The exact place of an explanation. Nowhere else.
So his science word one word first is exact. Just hell.
To explain a descriptive analogy where we came from we say biology from eternal.
To convince a changed humans brain mind by science causes we came from eternal. You have to analyse then state why hell was once eternal first also.
To quote why we came straight from eternal ourselves only after the earth O body of a hells angels that left owned the heavenly body that refilled in the burnt out eternal body.
How it Re established a mutual presence...heavenly body with eternal origin. But will always remain separated.
Earth rock in cosmic law was the end of hell exact.
So using two words eternal hell causes the man scientist theist to believe he owned both in science terms when he never did.
He only caused used hell.
As he will man's will about God the earth.
So he is the he who did.
Says he will.
He'll.
He is EL God by thinking analogy of a man living. A theist only. Named El himself as God in science by his will.
Exact taught man of science was named as Satan his brother conscious theist.
Saying all parents proven in national country did arrive spiritually as the same body type. As they all expressed as first the same mutual DNA.
So the origin body spirit eternal owned the same first.
And only man's metal machine god caused national fallout causing DNA the variation.
Country nation parent changed then were sacrificed converted bodily.
Why we know we are brothers and sisters.
When a scientist says I used hell my man's he will to use machines. Only I personally designed and mind controlled. Humans already manually mind control machines. The exact place of an explanation. Nowhere else.
So his science word one word first is exact. Just hell.
To explain a descriptive analogy where we came from we say biology from eternal.
To convince a changed humans brain mind by science causes we came from eternal. You have to analyse then state why hell was once eternal first also.
To quote why we came straight from eternal ourselves only after the earth O body of a hells angels that left owned the heavenly body that refilled in the burnt out eternal body.
How it Re established a mutual presence...heavenly body with eternal origin. But will always remain separated.
Earth rock in cosmic law was the end of hell exact.
So using two words eternal hell causes the man scientist theist to believe he owned both in science terms when he never did.
He only caused used hell.
As he will man's will about God the earth.
So he is the he who did.
Says he will.
He'll.
He is EL God by thinking analogy of a man living. A theist only. Named El himself as God in science by his will.
Exact taught man of science was named as Satan his brother conscious theist.