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What is freedom? (For anyone who considers themselves "Christian")

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
In Galatians 5 the Apostle Paul starts with a declarative sentence:

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.

So, what is freedom here? Do the Scriptures define or interpret this for us? What does the Spirit teach you about this? Do you follow any teachings or traditions from your Church concerning this? Is this freedom mindset in direct opposition to having rules and traditions forced upon us?

As a caveat, I will be in the Keys this weekend, so I may not have access to this forum until Monday or Tuesday. Then again, I just might. Someone surprise me with a lucid insight!
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
One thing that God gives all people is free choice. We can choose to serve Him or we can choose to reject Him. It does seem as though Christianity and other religions are "slaves" to God and have obey a bunch of rules and all that, but in reality, we are actually slaves of our own bodies!
People crave carnal things, such as sex, drinking, drugs, too much food, and so on. God can help free us from being slaves to things that may harm us. Most sins are committed to oneself, meaning that we sin against ourselves more than we sin against others. Even without drugs or alcohol. Think of Thanksgiving(Americans) or Christmas dinner or whatever, we tend to eat too much on those days and end up with terrible indigestion and we suffer (there are those who can keep that from happening).
Even with God we will suffer, but I think God can save people from sinning against our own bodies, with His help. In that way, we are free.
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
It's freedom from the curse of death. Well, that is if you want to look at it from a scriptural position. Otherwise its freedom from whatever.
 

TehuTi

Active Member
Scuba Pete said:
In Galatians 5 the Apostle Paul starts with a declarative sentence:

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.

So, what is freedom here? Do the Scriptures define or interpret this for us? What does the Spirit teach you about this? Do you follow any teachings or traditions from your Church concerning this? Is this freedom mindset in direct opposition to having rules and traditions forced upon us?

As a caveat, I will be in the Keys this weekend, so I may not have access to this forum until Monday or Tuesday. Then again, I just might. Someone surprise me with a lucid insight!




I'll pass on this one
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
`PaWz said:
We are free to whatever the limits of our mental and physical abilities.

See what I mean...if you don't want the Scriptural definition (which, by the way is where the term "Free in Christ" comes from) then just make up what pleases you.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
To me it would be freedom from fear, and from the needs in us that cause us to be afraid. So that we could then love others and ourselves without fear; immediately, spontaneously, and authentically.

That would be my idea of 'freedom in Christ'.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Anyone care to back up thier opinions with scripture? That would be interesting in and of itself.
 

MM21

Member
Sandy has correctly answered this statement, to the best of my knowledge. In the contextual usage of freedom it refers to those “in Christ” and being “free” is simply; free from sin. As Sandy stated earlier it is free from the curse of death, relatively we can connect it to Romans 6:23 “The Wages of Sin is death”. The ultimate curse of our sin is death. Romans 6:18 clearly depicts that “those in Christ” have been set free from sin, but now are slaves to righteousness. Freedom- as we see it, does not exist. I say this in our thought to say we have “ultimate freewill” in which we clearly do not.
 

!Fluffy!

Lacking Common Sense
In Galatians 5 the Apostle Paul starts with a declarative sentence:

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.

So, what is freedom here? Do the Scriptures define or interpret this for us? What does the Spirit teach you about this? Do you follow any teachings or traditions from your Church concerning this? Is this freedom mindset in direct opposition to having rules and traditions forced upon us?

Actually the clue to answer this one is found in the previous chapter of Galatians, where he begins by differentiating between the servant and the heir:


1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
8Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. 9But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

....and continues on with the allegory of Abraham's sons:

21Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

22For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

To me, the law is the enslavement, or opposite of freedom. The law is of the Flesh. The promise is Christ, and fulfillment of the promise is salvation from the law of the flesh through Christ, that is freedom, the freedom of the spirit. We are set free from the Law by Christ who fulfilled the Law perfectly.

As he points out in v29, however, the Law continues to persecute the Free children of God, who are heirs through Christ. We are not to be enslaved to IT, but we are to live instead in the spirit of Christ (see Gal. 5).
 

!Fluffy!

Lacking Common Sense
Our LAW becomes Christ, which law is above the old "law of the flesh".
Our justification is now through Christ, no longer through the law.
He speaks to those who would justify themselves through the law.
 

!Fluffy!

Lacking Common Sense
5:13 For you were called for freedom, brothers. But do not use this freedom as an opportunity for the flesh; rather, serve one another through love. 14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one statement, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 15 But if you go on biting and devouring one another, beware that you are not consumed by one another. 16 I say, then: live by the Spirit and you will certainly not gratify the desire of the flesh. 17 For the flesh has desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you may not do what you want. 18 But if you are guided by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Greetings!

I would suggest that this passage from the Baha'i scriptures might prove helpful!:

125 "Say: True liberty consisteth in man’s submission unto My commandments, little as ye know it. Were men to observe that which We have sent down unto 64 them from the Heaven of Revelation, they would, of a certainty, attain unto perfect liberty. Happy is the man that hath apprehended the Purpose of God in whatever He hath revealed from the Heaven of His Will that pervadeth all created things. Say: The liberty that profiteth you is to be found nowhere except in complete servitude unto God, the Eternal Truth. Whoso hath tasted of its sweetness will refuse to barter it for all the dominion of earth and heaven."

--The Book of Certitude, pp. 63-64

Peace,

Bruce
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Moon Woman said:
Of course not. Read in context that is not what Paul is getting at AT ALL, Pete.
These are questions and not assertions. Please treat them as such.

However, in another passage we read:

Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. 9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.
13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. God made you
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19 He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21 "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence. NIV

Then we read:

II Corinthians 4:1 Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you? 2 You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everybody. 3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. 4 Such confidence as this is ours through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! 12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. NIV

How can anyone justify exchanging one set of rules/laws/regulations for another set? Do we need all of those man made laws or just the "Law of Christ", which is found in John 13:34?
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Moon Woman said:
He speaks to those who would justify themselves through the law.
I would suggest that he is speaking to anyone who tries to justify themselves through ANY set of rules or laws. Once we do that we are indeed encumbering ourselves with the weight of sin as we fall short.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Scuba Pete said:
In Galatians 5 the Apostle Paul starts with a declarative sentence:

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.

So, what is freedom here? Do the Scriptures define or interpret this for us? What does the Spirit teach you about this? Do you follow any teachings or traditions from your Church concerning this? Is this freedom mindset in direct opposition to having rules and traditions forced upon us?

As a caveat, I will be in the Keys this weekend, so I may not have access to this forum until Monday or Tuesday. Then again, I just might. Someone surprise me with a lucid insight!

Cheating (because I always need to do so):D
http://www.newkingjamesversion.com/books/galatians_1.html

interprets it this way:-

4:31-5:1 So then represents the conclusion of the previous section, while therefore signals that Paul is going to apply this spiritual truth to the lives of the Galatian believers. To be children of the bondwoman is to be enslaved to the covenant from Mount Sinai (4:24, 25), the Law of Moses. To be of the free is to follow Abraham's example of faith (3:6-9), to be "born according to the Spirit" (3:2; 4:29), and to be destined for the "Jerusalem above" (4:26). Understanding such realities, the believer in Christ must continually stand fast in the liberty of not having to keep the Law of Moses in order to be saved. The Galatians were on the verge of becoming enslaved to the law again.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
michel said:
The Galatians were on the verge of becoming enslaved to the law again.
This is the traditional interpretation of this passage. However, I am trying to get us to go a bit deeper. Does this apply to ANY or ALL rules/laws? IOW, have some Christians simply exchanged one set of regulations for yet another?
 
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