What the Bible teaches about the holy spirit

Brickjectivity said:

I'm sure that to some 'Real spirit persons' makes sense, but to me it sounds like physical-not-physical, like opposites pushed together. The idea of God having a literal hand is wrong to me and is one of the characteristics of pagan gods which are to be rejected by those who believe in God. An actual hand? I think that is mistaking figures of speech.

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Right, God does Not have a literal or a physical hand, eyes, etc. but we can relate to the idea.
Even sitting at one's right hand being figurative of sitting at one's favored position.

URAVIP2ME said:

In his 3 1/2 year ministry Jesus could have given the model prayer many repeated times at different locations.

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Many things are 'possible', but we are guided by what Scripture 'does' say.
This is a lengthy read but quite interesting concerning the 'Our Father' or 'Pater Noster'.

raymond_brown_pater_noster.pdf (weebly.com)

pearl said:

Many things are 'possible', but we are guided by what Scripture 'does' say.This is a lengthy read but quite interesting concerning the 'Our Father' or 'Pater Noster'. raymond_brown_pater_noster.pdf (weebly.com)

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Yes, guided by what Scripture 'does' say.
* Matthew 6:9 with
Hallowed be God's name with Exodus 6:3; Leviticus 22:32; Psalms 83:18 (Tetragrammaton) Ezekiel 36:23; Ezekiel 38:23.
Kingdom come with Daniel 2:44; Matthew 6:33; Revelation 11:15.
God's will (His purpose) to take place with Matthew 26:42; 1 Timothy 2:4; Revelation 4:11.
In Heaven, on Earth with Psalms 37:10; Luke 23:43; Acts of the Apostles 24:15.
Our daily bread with Psalms 37:25; Proverbs 30:8; Matthew 6:34; 1 Timothy 6:8.
Forgive with Matthew 18:21; Mark 11:25; Luke 17:3-4.
Temptation with Matthew 26:41; 1 Corinthians 10:13; Revelation 3:10.
Deliver us with John 17:15; 1 John 5:19.
* Luke 11:2-4 with
Hallowed with Deuteronomy 32:1; Deuteronomy 32:3; Leviticus 22:32; Psalms 145:21; Isaiah 5:16; Isaiah 8:13; Isaiah 29:23; Ezekiel 36:23.
Kingdom come with Daniel 2:44; Daniel 7:13-14; Matthew 6:9-13.
Daily bread with Psalms 37:25.
Forgive with Psalms 79:9; Daniel 9:19.
and forgive with Mark 11:25; Ephesians 4:32; Colossians 3:13.
Temptation with Luke 22:46; James 1:13; 1 Corinthians 10:13; Revelation 3:10.
So, definitely "yes" guided by parallel corresponding cross-reference verses.

Brickjectivity said:

It would be convenient for your argument if 'Persons' in the creeds meant 'Person' in the modern and typical sense, however it never has. The word in the creed does not mean 'Person' like when you are talking about a person but is poorly translated. Both I and you have access to the way the trinitarian concepts have been developed and don't have to guess what is meant by them.

Influential 20th century theologians Karl Barth (1886–1968) and Karl Rahner (1904–84) endorse one-self Trinity theories, and suggest replacements for the term “Person”. They argue that in modern times “person” has come to mean a self. But three divine selves would be three gods. Hence, even if “Person” should be retained as traditional, its meaning in the context of the Trinity should be expounded using phrases like “modes of being” (Barth) or “manners of subsisting” (Rahner) (Ovey 2008, 203–13; Rahner 1997, 42–5, 103–15). Trinity (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy).​

Rather, it shows that God is not a person; and it is up to you to prove otherwise if you believe otherwise. Since God is not a person as you define person, then the Father can be consubstantial with the Holy Spirit, theoretically.

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I suspect that you believe in a god other than the God of the Scriptures. Jehovah, the God of Abraham and of Jesus Christ, is a personal God.

Eli G said:

Trinitarians, on the other hand, consider that this "spirit" is a third person, who together with Jehovah and Jesus in heaven, make up a god made up of three individual persons, and which they call "Trinity".

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As mentioned to you before, this is not what Catholics believe and we are Trinitarians.

Eli G said:

I suspect that you believe in a god other than the God of the Scriptures. Jehovah, the God of Abraham and of Jesus Christ, is a personal God.

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You have resort to an ad hominem attack -- attacking the person with suspicions and questioning their intentions instead of dealing with the subject. I clearly state that the scriptures indicate God is not personal. You double down saying God is personal and must have the personal name 'Jehovah', which you obtain from your own special version of the scriptures which nobody else uses.

You also mischaracterize the beliefs of the roman catholics in order to attack a position they do not have. Can't be bothered to find out what they actually think before coming up with arguments? It is no different from when someone pays to hear speakers that please themselves. That is common and suggests your church is absolutely the same as all other churches with itching ears. I'd put your church and the catholics and most every church in about the same category -- not particularly competitive. Your scriptural arguments are not impressive. You don't know anything about 'Jehovah's name, and you stupidly cut off other Christians. Who cares if Jesus prays for unity? You don't.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you are apparently not open to consider ideas, so you are pretending to argue but don't have the leeway to do so. You don't have permission from the tower. You have your own special scriptures that no one else uses. You go to isolated meetings and don't recognize other Christians as legitimate. You're not in a very good position to carry out ad hominem attacks.

As mentioned before, the examples of Moses and the holy spirit upon him re-distribuited among/over 70 men, and of Elisha receiving a portion of the holy spirit that was in Elijah, show that the holy spirit is a force or energy whose original source is Jehovah God, and that He pours out, takes away, or distributes according to His own will…hence, it is biblically impossible to view Jehovah's spirit as a person independent of God with its own personal identity and personality.

Do you agree on this point?

In the Hebrew Scriptures we can find many mentions of the holy spirit, and some of them are extremely interesting and help us understand what it is from the biblical point of view, and not according to the Trinitarian tradition. These mentions are interesting because those who speak of this supposed "third person of God" do not take into consideration what the Bible says about the spirit of Jehovah before the time of Christ ... which would give them a more realistic perspective about what it really is.

Let's talk about Bezalel. This Israelite had left Egypt with the people. He was dedicated to crafts in metals, wood and stones. When Jehovah told Moses to build the tabernacle and utensils that would be used in the worship of Jehovah by the priests on behalf of the people, Jehovah spoke these words to Moses:

Exo. 31:1 Jehovah continued to speak to Moses, saying: 2 “See, I have chosen Bezʹal·el the son of Uʹri the son of Hur of the tribe of Judah. 3 I will fill him with the spirit of God, giving him wisdom, understanding, and knowledge of every kind of craftsmanship, 4 for making artistic designs, for working with gold, silver, and copper, 5 for cutting and setting stones, and for making every kind of wood product.

Read also Exo. 35:30 to 36:8. Jehovah was not putting a person inside those servants of his…he was filling them with his holy spirit so that they would have a developed ability in the things they already knew how to do. The Bible mentions many more examples, which show that the holy spirit is the active force that comes from God to act in a different capacity on some people...

A very illustrative example of the way in which the holy spirit influences a person can be clearly seen in King David. About his anointing with the spirit of God the Bible tells us:

1 Sam. 16:13 So Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the presence of his brothers. And the spirit of Jehovah began to empower David from that day forward. Samuel later rose and went his way to Raʹmah.

Did you notice how David received the anointing from Jehovah? A prophet of Jehovah, authorized and sent by Jehovah himself, performed a formal anointing so that David would be recognized as an approved person of Jehovah and his holy spirit or power would begin to act on the young man. Could anyone think according to this account that the spirit of Jehovah is a person?

David was an imperfect human being. The Bible does not cover up some of his serious mistakes that he committed against God. One such mistake was causing the death of one of his men in order to keep his wife...After a prophet of Jehovah named Nathan came to him with a message from Jehovah about his act, David recognized his sin, and feared that Jehovah will remove His holy spirit from him and he will no longer be influenced by that spirit in his life. In one of his Psalms this prayer is collected, in Psal.51... which in part says:

Psal. 51:11 Do not cast me out from your presence;
And do not take your holy spirit away from me.

We can read in the Scriptures how the holy spirit influenced David. One of the achievements of the spirit of God in him was to inspire David to produce many writings that today form part of the inspired Scriptures of God.

Acts 1:15 During those days Peter stood up in the midst of the brothers (the number of people was altogether about 120) and said: 16 “Men, brothers, it was necessary for the scripture to be fulfilled that the holy spirit spoke prophetically through David about Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus (See Sal.41:9 and 55:12).

... also:

Acts 4:24 On hearing this, they raised their voices with one accord to God and said:
“Sovereign Lord, you are the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all the things in them, 25 and who said through holy spirit by the mouth of our forefather David, your servant: ‘Why did nations become agitated and peoples meditate on empty things? 26 The kings of the earth took their stand and the rulers gathered together as one against Jehovah and against his anointed one.’ 27 For truly both Herod and Pontius Pilate with men of the nations and with peoples of Israel were gathered together in this city against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, 28 to do what your hand and counsel had determined beforehand to occur. 29 And now, Jehovah, give attention to their threats, and grant to your slaves to keep speaking your word with all boldness, 30 while you stretch out your hand for healing and while signs and wonders occur through the name of your holy servant Jesus." (See Ps.2:1,2).

Notice that the holy spirit spoke "by/through (the mouth of) David" (Acts 1:16; 4:25)... It is easy to see that the holy spirit is the spirit of Jehovah. If there is anything that the holy spirit says, speaks, etc, it is that Jehovah is speaking through his own holy spirit... IT IS NOT that there is an independent person called the Holy Spirit who is speaking for himself (John 14:26; 16:13).

Eli G said:

Jehovah's Witnesses conceive of the spirit of Jehovah (or holy spirit or spirit of God) spoken of in the Bible as a force whose primary source is Jehovah God. Trinitarians, on the other hand, consider that this "spirit" is a third person, who together with Jehovah and Jesus in heaven, make up a god made up of three individual persons, and which they call "Trinity".

I opened this topic to share some interesting information that the Scriptures contain about the spirit of God, and that can help many to have an exact idea of what it is based on biblical information, and not according to traditions. Obviously, the information can be analyzed and the interpretation of the facts can be debated by whoever thinks they have more relevant biblical information about it, especially if that analysis is also based on the biblical Scriptures.

The first thing I want to share is that in the Bible, the holy spirit can be distributed, divided into parts, removed from one person and placed in several or vice versa. This characteristic of the holy spirit shows that it cannot be a person, otherwise that person would be fragmented. The first text that I am going to show to support this is the following:

Heb.2:4
συνεπιμαρτυρουντος __ joined in bearing witness
του θεου __ God
σημειοις __ with signs
τε και τερασιν __ and wonders
και ποικιλαις δυναμεσιν __ and various powerful works
και πνευματος αγιου __ and of [the] holy spirit
μερισμοις __ distributions
κατα την αυτου θελησιν __ according to his will

Paul is talking about how serious is to pay more than the usual attention to the things they have heard, since God himself joined in bearing witness with the holy spirit distributed according to his (God's) will.

This is not the only case in which it is shown that the holy spirit is distributed, and in future comments I will continue to show more biblical information about it.

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" Heb.2:4 "

It is not from Jesus, therefore, it is not a reliable source of guidance for the followers of Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah, in the ethical, moral and or spiritual matters, I understand. Right?

Regards