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Are believers happier than atheists?

firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
No, I have no study to cite and that is why I said 'it is my contention' rather than 'studies show'...
However, if I looked for studies to support my contention I think I could find some.
Do you think you could find studies that show that believers are happier than atheists?
Click to expand...

I didnt claim anything. Especially not that theists are happier.

Nevertheless you should know that happiness indices around the world have been predominantly surrounded by financial strength which is a false correlation to happiness.

But I can tell you that suicide rate is a better correlation and most studies have shown that religions is a protective factor against religion. Proven by research. Unless you dismiss this as having any correlation to happiness. Fine with me.

Also you should note that Religion has a so called "significant" impact on depression. The research statement is "Religiosity has a significant effect on the psychopathology of the depressed patient, especially on hopelessness and suicidal intent. This implies that the incorporation of religious elements in the treatment of the depressed is likely to have a useful positive impact."

Relationship between religiosity and psychopathology in patients with depression

I am no expert in this field. All I can do is doing some meta analysis, or read up on some meta analysis. And in all analysis, there have been a lot of discussion on the subject of morality, suicide and religion. What you have to pick is causation vs outcome in quantitative research. 800,000 suicides a year apparently, so one could actually take a quantitative study of outcome. That means how many of them were religious. This type of study will have to take third party information because the true respondent is already dead and that type of research is there for you to read. Try "Religion and Completed Suicide: a Meta- Analysis" by Andrew Wu and some two others. Then this study in the above link is based on living subjects. That shows quantitatively though the study is qualitative, that the lower religiosity in a person, the higher the depression levels are. There is a huge number of studies TB.

Cheers.
 
ChristineM

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Trailblazer said:
Are believers happier than atheists?
Click to expand...

Speaking for myself, I'm an adult atheist and am much happier than i was as a Christian child.

Life has been (fairly) good to me, since leaving Christianity. Would it have been as good if i hadn't abandoned the church? I truly don't know though I don't believe it would have been. There are certain things that could definitely not have happened and can only guess if anything comparable would have happened.

Speaking for family and friends. Overall i think the atheists among have the edge on happiness. Among the god believers there is less financial stability, a higher rate of divorce and trouble with children.

Speaking for everyone else... I don't know. I guess it depends where you live and how theism and atheism treat each other.

For example i know of some countries that you can be executed for non belief in the predominant faith. Not to be of that faith must be a terrible strain.
 
viole

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Trailblazer said:
Are believers happier than atheists?

It is my contention that believers are no happier than atheists and that there is no correlation between belief in God and happiness.

I think atheists can and do have happy lives, and many of them are happier than believers. I don't think that personal happiness is derived from belief in God, although one could argue that unlike personal happiness, spiritual happiness is derived from belief in God and a religion, and practicing that religion.

Do believers really rely upon God and their religion for their happiness? I highly doubt it. To test my hypothesis, if all the material things and physical pleasures that make most people happy were suddenly taken away how happy would they be? Would they still be happy worshiping God with only the bare essentials? That is certainly not how I see most people living although that is what most religions teach, particularly Christianity (Matthew 16:24-26, John 12:24-26) and also the Baha’i Faith.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I think that personal happiness is determined by a combination of factors such as childhood upbringing, heredity, education, adult experiences, and present life circumstances. All of these can be considered ‘causes’ or ‘reasons’ why people use their free will to make life choices that lead to happiness or unhappiness. However, free will is circumscribed by many factors such as ability and opportunity so true free will is very limited.

Although we have free will there are many things that happen to us that are not freely chosen. Life events such as death, sickness, injuries, accidents and other misfortunes are beyond our control and we are compelled to endure them. These are not subject to the free will of man so man is not responsible for them. These events are our fate, predestined by God, thus God is responsible for them.

I believe that God determines much of our well-being or lack thereof, since our childhood upbringing and heredity are predestined and these largely determine our lot in life, including our level of education, our adult experiences, and present life circumstances. If God is responsible for our fate, whether we have a happy life or a life of suffering is largely determined by God. Most believers want to credit God with all the good things that happen in life but they fail to look at anything else. I consider this highly illogical.
Click to expand...
I can only speak of myself, with the knowledge of me not being statistically relevant.

I did not perceive any change in my happiness when I left Christianity. Was not worse, was not better. Maybe a little happier, like it is always the case when I have Eureka moments. For sure, that helped me to understand immediately why good things happen to bad people, or bad things happen to good people, and the seemingly random distribution of good and evil, happiness and pain, in the world.

But in general, it would not surprise me if religion provides psychological advantages to the believer. For starters, it looks to provide an escape from existential and absurdist worldviews, which might ultimately lead into depression or other problems, which are clearly not advantageous in terms of survival. Unless we are all übermenschen, of course :)

And that is probably why religion, or brains prone to become spiritual and religious, and therefore prone to find an ultimate meaning, no matter how illusory that is, have been naturally selected.

Ciao

- viole
 
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W

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Nakosis said:
For a person seeking to be happy, it has been scientifically proven that the ultimate goal to achieving the most happiness possible in this life is a $400,000 a year salary.
Believer/non-believer, doesn't matter.

So science agrees with you 100%
The biggest indicator of how happy you are is not religion but money.

Not to say IMO, you can't be poor and also happy, but the level of happiness it is possible to experience dramatically increases with the size of your paycheck.
Click to expand...

Anyone can be happier with money, since you can leverage money, like a tool, to create a positive state of mind. One can change their clothes or location to suit the whims of happiness. However, physical reality does not provide sufficient prosthetic income for all. The world has more poor people, then well off people, with the money tool, a frustrating dream that is out of reach for the majority of humans.

God and religion provides humans a way to find inner happiness, even in simplicity or humble means. Happiness is a state of mind. You need to generate certain brain chemicals to be happy. Atheists prefer outside gimmicks, like money and materialism, since they cannot control their inner state of mind though abstractions; frontal lobe.

Jesus said blessed are the poor since they, by default, must learn to find their inner happiness, in simple ways, like being in nature or with family and loved ones. I live in humble means, but I am happy. The rat race connected to acquiring wealth only provided spurts of happiness, since the leverage of money was never more than way to rent happiness.

This is why atheist tend to be on the aggressive side, trying to undermine the faithful, to make their life harder since misery likes company. The pretension of money needs an audience to applaud, since even a $billion without bragging rights and an audience to react, is an empty mansion. Most of the evils of the world are connected to acquiring money prosthesis for perceived happiness, since this path for happiness, becomes less and less affective, until larger and larger doses become necessary.
 
Link

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Per Quran, the only ones who truly believe in God, are guided to the ways of God, and the Imam of time. Everyone else just giving lip service or deceive themselves about their Lord while calling in fact another.

Real belief in God and Messengers, would cause one to be in severe grief. Not happiness. Happiness with what the world has gone through and how we treated Quran and Ahlulbayt (a) and the consequences the world faced and is threated with the HAQAH (inevitable) which will happen if the Mahdi (a) is rejected, does not make sense. It should make you severely sad if you truly believe in the Quran.

Of course, with people, smile, laugh, but you should be in tears more then laughter just as was Jacob (a) concerning Yusuf (a).
 
Alien826

Alien826

No religious beliefs
In theory, anyone can be happy in any circumstances. The trick is to not make your happiness dependent on things outside yourself.

Back to the real world, I spent much of my life worrying about things that "could happen" and not smelling the flowers. I related it to money, not as an end in itself but as a protection against "bad things". Eventually, I got enough income, and later savings, to feel secure in my needs and reasonable wants. Strangely, my attitudes changed at that point. I would spend less than I earned and feel no need to accumulate "stuff" for its own sake. I was more ready to help others financially, saying "it's only money". I worried a whole lot less about things that I could do nothing about.

(A quick note, I'm not "rich" in any sense, but have enough to feel secure.)

I remember a study years ago that suggested that as people's incomes go up, their happiness increases, but only to a point. Then it flattens out. The actual number will vary by person and circumstances of course, but it makes a lot of sense to me. What's happening of course is less an increase in happiness but a decrease in misery. If you can't pay the rent, you worry about it. An increase in salary removes that worry.The trouble is that because it works up to a point, people conclude that more money equals more happiness without limit.

It's really not difficult. How many rooms can you sit in at one time? How many cars can you drive? A $20K (working) car will get you there just as a $100K limousine does. There are marginal improvements in the more expensive options certainly, but dollar for dollar how much happiness do you get?

I say "money", but that applies to our civilization. The root of it is power over what happens to us.

As far as religion goes, I think that delusion (sorry, religious people) can buffer us from the world, but doesn't help much when reality intervenes.

I would recommend one religion though. Buddhism. It teaches that the cause of unhappiness is attachment to things of the world, and gives a methodology to improve oneself. Its help is available right here and now and it's up to you. You can ignore all the superstitious stuff that all religions seem to garner.

A quick last note. When I say "happiness", I mean something like "contentment". How you feel (ideally) when you are sitting quietly thinking of nothing much.
 
P

Ponder This

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
Are believers happier than atheists?

It is my contention that believers are no happier than atheists and that there is no correlation between belief in God and happiness.

I think atheists can and do have happy lives, and many of them are happier than believers. I don't think that personal happiness is derived from belief in God, although one could argue that unlike personal happiness, spiritual happiness is derived from belief in God and a religion, and practicing that religion.

Do believers really rely upon God and their religion for their happiness? I highly doubt it. To test my hypothesis, if all the material things and physical pleasures that make most people happy were suddenly taken away how happy would they be? Would they still be happy worshiping God with only the bare essentials? That is certainly not how I see most people living although that is what most religions teach, particularly Christianity (Matthew 16:24-26, John 12:24-26) and also the Baha’i Faith.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I think that personal happiness is determined by a combination of factors such as childhood upbringing, heredity, education, adult experiences, and present life circumstances. All of these can be considered ‘causes’ or ‘reasons’ why people use their free will to make life choices that lead to happiness or unhappiness. However, free will is circumscribed by many factors such as ability and opportunity so true free will is very limited.

Although we have free will there are many things that happen to us that are not freely chosen. Life events such as death, sickness, injuries, accidents and other misfortunes are beyond our control and we are compelled to endure them. These are not subject to the free will of man so man is not responsible for them. These events are our fate, predestined by God, thus God is responsible for them.

I believe that God determines much of our well-being or lack thereof, since our childhood upbringing and heredity are predestined and these largely determine our lot in life, including our level of education, our adult experiences, and present life circumstances. If God is responsible for our fate, whether we have a happy life or a life of suffering is largely determined by God. Most believers want to credit God with all the good things that happen in life but they fail to look at anything else. I consider this highly illogical.
Click to expand...

Atheists can find happiness in other ways than believing in God.
Atheists can be religious and atheists can be civically active.
On the other hand, atheists have a higher rate of drug use.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Brian2 said:
There can be satisfaction and peace and joy in doing the right thing, even if it means we are disadvantaged in some way by doing it. Contentment with what God gives can exist even if we are in poor circumstances.
Click to expand...
Given I am in particularly bad circumstances in my life now that was very helpful.
There is satisfaction and peace and joy in knowing I am doing the right thing, even though it is very difficult and much sacrifice is required.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Alien826 said:
I would recommend one religion though. Buddhism. It teaches that the cause of unhappiness is attachment to things of the world, and gives a methodology to improve oneself. Its help is available right here and now and it's up to you. You can ignore all the superstitious stuff that all religions seem to garner.
Click to expand...
I like the teachings of Buddhism. The Baha'i Faith shares many of those teachings, including detachment from things of the world. It also offers us a methodology to improve ourselves and it discards all the superstitious stuff many religions seem to garner.

Some of the similarities an differences in the two religions are pointed out in this article:
Buddhism and the Bahá'í Faith
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Alien826 said:
Back to the real world, I spent much of my life worrying about things that "could happen" and not smelling the flowers.
Click to expand...
I spent most of my life dealing with things that were happening so I had no time to stop and smell the flowers.
Now I do a little of that but given where I live, surrounded by trees, it is usually trees I look at, trees and animals!
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Sgt. Pepper

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
ChristineM said:
Speaking for myself, I'm an adult atheist and am much happier than i was as a Christian child.

Life has been (fairly) good to me, since leaving Christianity. Would it have been as good if i hadn't abandoned the church? I truly don't know though I don't believe it would have been. There are certain things that could definitely not have happened and can only guess if anything comparable would have happened.

Speaking for family and friends. Overall i think the atheists among have the edge on happiness. Among the god believers there is less financial stability, a higher rate of divorce and trouble with children.

Speaking for everyone else... I don't know. I guess it depends where you live and how theism and atheism treat each other.

For example i know of some countries that you can be executed for non belief in the predominant faith. Not to be of that faith must be a terrible strain.
Click to expand...

I like hearing other people's stories of why they left Christianity too. I share my exodus from Christianity in the hope that my story will inspire someone else who is thinking of leaving Christianity themselves or has already left Christianity and needs some reassurance.
 
Alien826

Alien826

No religious beliefs
Trailblazer said:
I spent most of my life dealing with things that were happening so I had no time to stop and smell the flowers.
Now I do a little of that but given where I live, surrounded by trees, it is usually trees I look at, trees and animals!
Click to expand...

"This too shall pass".

There is so much peace in nature. Do you have a dog? Dogs have given me so much.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Alien826 said:
"This too shall pass".
Click to expand...
It will pass, the question is what will it pass to.
Alien826 said:
There is so much peace in nature. Do you have a dog? Dogs have given me so much.
Click to expand...
I love nature. We have eight Persian cats indoors and all kinds of wild animals and birds on our property that we feed, water and watch. We are surrounded by trees which serve as habitat for the wild animals and birds.
 
syo

syo

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
Can you explain how being a theist makes you happy?
Click to expand...
The polytheistic gods are beautiful. The fact that Zeus and Aphrodite are real, makes me happy. If I were an atheist and believed that all is fake, I'd lost my head.
 
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