Bad Conditions Now Compared to Periods in the Past

Aupmanyav · Jun 5, 2022

David Davidovich said:
But nPeace has made the claim that the 'time of the end' started in the year 1914, therefore, that would align with the claim that he or she is making.

But I perhaps sound pessimistic because I will admit that I was really disturbed by the recent mass shooting of children in their school (which was at one time viewed as being a safe place for children) in Uvalde, TX, along with the more recent weekly gun massacres, and now the daily mass shootings that we have in the United States.

I don't see how you can say that because it's pretty much common knowledge that generally, millennials are financially frustrated.

India has seen worse days during the Muslim rule which extended for 8 hundred years and 2 hundred of the British. Or when Taimur and Nadir Shah invaded India.

That is sad and I hope Bidens attempt to control it may succeed. The ethnic cleansing of Hindus in Kashmir by Muslims is just as sad. Twenty have been killed in this year. Of course, we also have killed many terrorists. But still life goes on.

I do not think they are as constrained as you mention. They are enjoying their life.

David Davidovich · Jun 5, 2022

Aupmanyav said:
India has seen worse days during the Muslim rule which extended for 8 hundred years and 2 hundred of the British. Or when Taimur and Nadir Shah invaded India.

That is as sad and I hope Bidens attempt to control it may succeed. The ethnic cleansing of Hindus in Kashmir by Muslims is just as sad. Twenty have been killed in this year. Of course, we also have killed many terrorists. But still life goes on.

I do not think they are as constrained as you mention. They are enjoying their life.

First of all, Aupmanyav, I don't even know what that picture is. Because as far as I know, it could be a concert of ZZ Top from the 1980s.

Also, here is a list of links of the type of news articles that I have been reading about millennials and Gen Z in the media lately:

Here are the top concerns of millennials and Gen Z | Fortune

The reality of millennials' spending habits (cnbc.com)

Millennials are the unluckiest generation in U.S. history - The Washington Post

Millennials Say They'll Never Afford to Get What They Want in Life (businessinsider.com)

Millennial and Gen Z workers plagued with cost of living fears as wages struggle to keep pace with inflation (yahoo.com)

However, I did come across this one article with a bit of a different point of view than the other ones:

Millennials: Financially Confident but Very Stressed (investopedia.com)

Aupmanyav · Jun 5, 2022

Google gives me this. the largest attended music performance in usa in 2022 - Google Search

Sure, everything may not be hunky dory, but millennials, young ones of all times, have a tendency to grumble about money and freedom.

nPeace · Jun 5, 2022

David Davidovich said:
Could you give me a more succinct version of your answer as to why the year 1914 is the year the time of the end began? Because unfortunately, everyone does not have the time to read all the details of everyone's posts, and it would help if you give me a more concise version.

David. Did you read the OP, which is divided into two parts.
Could you have given a more succinct version of your OP, or did you think all that was necessary?
My post is 800 more words than yours, and that's due to scriptures.

If it's too much for you to take time to read, then it may be you are lookin for something specific. May I ask, what exactly?

I did organize what I wrote, so as to address each question you asked. So, where you question the fact that all professed Christian believe we are in the end times, I addressed that very clearly.

My post is very concise.
What lengthened it, is quoting scriptures. If you ignored the quoted scriptures, my post is 2180 less words than the OP.
So you could try ignoring the scriptures, if you don't have the time
...but watch the videos. They are very very short. Only one is 5 minutes. The others are little more than 3 minutes.

Did you miss the video on 1914? You must really have skimmed that post David. Are we having a discussion? Or am I missing something?

David Davidovich · Jun 5, 2022

Aupmanyav said:
Google gives me this. the largest attended music performance in usa in 2022 - Google Search

But a large concert doesn't necessarily translate into the younger generation being able to afford to party like that all the time.

Aupmanyav said:
Sure, everything may not be hunky dory, but millennials, young ones of all times, have a tendency to grumble about money and freedom.

Yeah, but the previous generations hadn't experienced the financial crises that we've had in the past 14 years with the exception of the young generation during the time of the Great Depression

idea · Jun 5, 2022

Depends on who you are, and where you live, as it always has. Currently live in N Korea? Or currently live in Canada?

I have a few family and friends who lived their whole life expecting 2nd coming... that never came. Spent all their $ on food storage and guns rather than vacations. Food storage rotted away. Guns were never used save practice. What a waste. One friend's parents discouraged college and career as "useless" because 2nd coming was there.... parents died, friend in bad shape financially, lots of regrets.

osgart · Jun 5, 2022

MAGA crazies, and the election of 2016 was a serious alarm bell for America. Then the attempted insurrection in DC last election. It all freaked me out. Still WW2 was a worse time.

idea · Jun 5, 2022

David Davidovich said:
First of all, Aupmanyav, I don't even know what that picture is. Because as far as I know, it could be a concert of ZZ Top from the 1980s.

Also, here is a list of links of the type of news articles that I have been reading about millennials and Gen Z in the media lately:

Here are the top concerns of millennials and Gen Z | Fortune

The reality of millennials' spending habits (cnbc.com)

Millennials are the unluckiest generation in U.S. history - The Washington Post

Millennials Say They'll Never Afford to Get What They Want in Life (businessinsider.com)

Millennial and Gen Z workers plagued with cost of living fears as wages struggle to keep pace with inflation (yahoo.com)

However, I did come across this one article with a bit of a different point of view than the other ones:

Millennials: Financially Confident but Very Stressed (investopedia.com)

This seems limited to US. Isn't it the "world " ending not just US? A more global perspective seems needed.

I get a little ... icky feeling... when Christians focus only on their own country .... it just seems biased and disrespectful of the rest of the world. Include China, include India, include where most people live - just seems very self-centered and unloving to ignore the largest population centers, to not talk or think about how theoretical well-being or tragedy is playing out for everyone, just US.

Seems like people only worry about their country, and themselves... not very "Christian"

David Davidovich · Jun 5, 2022

nPeace said:
David. Did you read the OP, which is divided into two parts.
Could you have given a more succinct version of your OP, or did you think all that was necessary?
My post is 800 more words than yours, and that's due to scriptures.

But, nPeace, I never intended for everyone to follow each and every word of the 2 parts of my OP, but I provided part 2 as reference to support what I said in part 1 of the OP, which isn't really that long where the bulk of it is made up of a quotation of Matthew 24:13-31. Plus, I highlighted part 1 with various fonts so that it would be easier for people to see the important points that I made because I realize that people don't always have time to read every detail of someone else's post. And I understand how sometimes it's not easy to have no choice but to read every detail about something, especially in this technological age where if you don't force yourself to take the time to read something technical, then more than likely, it ain't going to work.

However, nPeace, near the beginning of your post #48(link), you stated: "I'll walk you through it. I hope you are the patient type. " Therefore, even you realized that your post was very long and very packed with a lot of information and that it may be difficult for me to get through it all. However, you didn't start your post by saying something like: 'You really do need to read every detail or else you might not understand what I am saying in my post.' Therefore, there's a big difference between my OP and your post #48.

nPeace said:
If it's too much for you to take time to read, then it may be you are lookin for something specific. May I ask, what exactly?

Just the questions that I asked you in my previous reply to you.

nPeace said:
I did organize what I wrote, so as to address each question you asked. So, where you question the fact that all professed Christian believe we are in the end times, I addressed that very clearly.

My post is very concise.
What lengthened it, is quoting scriptures. If you ignored the quoted scriptures, my post is 2180 less words than the OP.

Now you sound like me.

nPeace said:
So you could try ignoring the scriptures, if you don't have the time
...but watch the videos. They are very very short. Only one is 5 minutes. The others are little more than 3 minutes.

Did you miss the video on 1914? You must really have skimmed that post David. Are we having a discussion? Or am I missing something?

Yes, I did skip the videos because I thought that they were ancillary and not essential. But I will watch them. Plus, I like videos; I use quite a few of them (as essentials) in my posts.

P.S. Also, I still would like to know why Jesus' disciples asked him when would be his presence (or second coming), even though, they had no idea that he would be leaving them in any way. However, I can start a new thread about it, if you don't know the answer.

David Davidovich · Jun 5, 2022

idea said:
This seems limited to US. Isn't it the "world " ending not just US? A more global perspective seems needed.

I get a little ... icky feeling... when Christians focus only on their own country .... it just seems biased and disrespectful of the rest of the world. Include China, include India, include where most people live - just seems very self-centered and unloving to ignore the largest population centers, to not talk or think about how theoretical well-being or tragedy is playing out for everyone, just US.

Seems like people only worry about their country, and themselves... not very "Christian"

Good points.

David Davidovich · Jun 5, 2022

idea said:
Depends on who you are, and where you live, as it always has. Currently live in N Korea? Or currently live in Canada?

I have a few family and friends who lived their whole life expecting 2nd coming... that never came. Spent all their $ on food storage and guns rather than vacations. Food storage rotted away. Guns were never used save practice. What a waste. One friend's parents discouraged college and career as "useless" because 2nd coming was there.... parents died, friend in bad shape financially, lots of regrets.

Sadly, a lot of religions have been guilty of that.

nPeace · Jun 5, 2022

David Davidovich said:
I don't understand. I know that most Christians believe that Jesus is God and that he created the world, and that your religion believes that at one time, Jesus was God's first created angel who was there when God created the earth and assisted God in creating the earth, therefore, I don't understand how you can say that Jesus was familiar with storms, but not hurricanes.

The basic difference between a tropical storm and a hurricane lies in the intensity of the cyclone. • If the wind speeds of the cyclone are greater than 39 mph, it is referred to as a tropical storm. • When the wind speeds become greater than 73 mph, the same cyclone becomes a hurricane (or a typhoon).

Psalms 55:8
saah: to rush (of storm wind)

Job 37:9
cuwphah: Sea - Definition: a storm wind

Storms formed over the sea, and they caused sailors a bit of trouble. That's it.
Jonah 1:4-5; Jonah 1:12; Matthew 8:23-24; Acts of the Apostles 27:13-20
The increasing intensity of storms, to become hurricanes, is a by product of man's mismanagement of the earth.
Some scientists state this, but of course, as usual it is debated.

Jesus wouldn't have experienced a hurricane prior to his return to heaven.
History of Hurricanes.
The list of United States hurricanes includes all tropical cyclones officially recorded to have produced sustained winds of greater than 74 mph (119 km/h) in the United States, which is the minimum threshold for hurricane intensity

David Davidovich said:
Sorry, but I don't understand what you're saying with all that.

Sorry, but you've lost me. But perhaps you are over explaining things and causing me to get lost in your minutia.

Perhaps.

David Davidovich said:
Well, you said that the gospel of Jesus was preached to the entire inhabited earth during the first century, except for in Rome, however, I don't understand why there is a Bible book called Romans if that's true.

Letter of Paul to the Romans, also called Epistle of St. Paul the Apostle to the Romans, abbreviation Romans, sixth book of the New Testament and the longest and doctrinally most significant of St. Paul the Apostle’s writings. It was probably composed at Corinth in about 57 CE. The epistle was addressed to the Christian church at Rome, whose congregation Paul hoped to visit for the first time on his way to Spain.

emphasis is mine

click here: Letter of Paul to the Romans | Summary & Facts | Britannica

Did I say that? No. Definitely not.
Perhaps you are scanning the posts a bit too fast.
Taking time to read what the poster says, would prevent that mistake.

David Davidovich said:
Is Matthew 24:7 specially referring to a world war? Because there have always been nations that have risen against other nations and kingdoms that have risen against other kingdoms.

No. Matthew 24:7 is not specially referring to a world war.

David Davidovich said:
But how would anyone now know how typhoons were back then... or earthquakes or even other calamities?

The data is there to be studied.
It's like how people living today, know that attitudes are quite different to the past. Data is also pased down through generations.

David Davidovich said:
Well, in your post #48(link), you said that:

Jesus makes the point that it will be a clear sign for all to recognize... especially his disciples, since they involve aspects associated with worship.

But if you read It Aint Necessarily So's post that I referred you to, then you would realize that that's not true.

You'll need to demonstrate that it's not true. What do you say is not universal?

David Davidovich said:
Huh? I don't really understand where that question is coming from, however, I'm just having a discussion to share points of view. But now your question caused me to ask the question: Are you looking to convince me to accept what you presented to me?

I'm not looking to convince you. That's why I asked the question, because if you wanted a point of view, and one is given, and everytime one is given, you go, "...but...", it's more than asking for a point of view. Is that true?
It's more like "prove to me..." Or "convince me...". Not true?

David Davidovich said:
And one more thing. Lost in all the minutia, I noticed that you didn't answer my one question:

I'm sorry, but I'm a bit confused here because how could Jesus followers ask him about when he would have begun ruling in heaven when they weren't supposed to have had any idea that he was going to die and/or was going to heaven?

They asked because he told them, and they believed what he told them, even if they did not fully understand. Similar to when they questioned him about things he said, even though they didn't understand.
They might not have wanted to accept that he would die, but they believed what he said.

(Matthew 26:35) Peter said to him: “Even if I should have to die with you, I will by no means disown you.” All the other disciples also said the same thing.
(Luke 22:33) Then he said to him: “Lord, I am ready to go with you both to prison and to death.”
(John 11:16) So Thomas, who was called the Twin, said to his fellow disciples: “Let us also go, so that we may die with him.”

They believed he would die, based on the fact that he told them he would. They just were not ready for it.

David Davidovich said:
Also, I had never thought of that question previously until I read you say:

This was in response to a two fold question from his disciples.

emphasis mine

And for some reason, what you said made me think of that question.

Understood.
Hope I cleared up most of the confusion.

nPeace · Jun 5, 2022

David Davidovich said:
But, nPeace, I never intended for everyone to follow each and every word of the 2 parts of my OP, but I provided part 2 as reference to support what I said in part 1 of the OP, which isn't really that long where the bulk of it is made up of a quotation of Matthew 24:13-31. Plus, I highlighted part 1 with various fonts so that it would be easier for people to see the important points that I made because I realize that people don't always have time to read every detail of someone else's post. And I understand how sometimes it's not easy to have no choice but to read every detail about something, especially in this technological age where if you don't force yourself to take the time to read something technical, then more than likely, it ain't going to work.

However, nPeace, near the beginning of your post #48(link), you stated: "I'll walk you through it. I hope you are the patient type. " Therefore, even you realized that your post was very long and very packed with a lot of information and that it may be difficult for me to get through it all. However, you didn't start your post by saying something like: 'You really do need to read every detail or else you might not understand what I am saying in my post.' Therefore, there's a big difference between my OP and your post #48.

Just the questions that I asked you in my previous reply to you.

Now you sound like me.

Yes, I did skip the videos because I thought that they were ancillary and not essential. But I will watch them. Plus, I like videos; I use quite a few of them (as essentials) in my posts.

P.S. Also, I still would like to know why Jesus' disciples asked him when would be his presence (or second coming), even though, they had no idea that he would be leaving them in any way. However, I can start a new thread about it, if you don't know the answer.

Well I think somewhere in here, you realize that your first comment isn't quite accurate.
The only big difference between my post, and your OP, is that yours is first

, which makes any complaining about mine... well... just don't point fingers, okay.
I could have put all my scriptures in a spoiler, and you would see how much shorter it is in comparison to yours.
I mentioned patience because I experienced that most here don't like to read posts that are more than 5 lines. Honestly.

I really had no idea, and really didn't think you would have a problem or complain after posting a book.

nPeace · Jun 6, 2022

natasha levchenko said:
Hi,I must confess I’ve asked this question many times.
“Are we experiencing the worst menace ever?”
while previous eras experienced turmoil, “the last days” would be extraordinarily savage. As 2 Timothy 3:13puts it, “wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse.”
People have always fought and been ill,that’s not a surprise.
I’m not an analyst but yet there is something I’d like to share.
Now my country is at war .I’ve never experienced war before.
But I know what elderly Ukrainians say:” we lived during World War 2 it was rather a drastic experience,people were killed and tortured,they had no food.
. But this war is more bloody and destructive of any other age”
Kiev region…. let alone Mariupol…..
And this is just the beginning…
We will all face hunger…
Currently my son and I are living abroad.we see the prices are rising all the time I can’t afford buying things I used to buy before.
As we see humanity is far from a peaceful world. In terms of sheer magnitude we are passing through an era called the last days.

It's one thing to hear about what's taking place far away. It's another, to live it. Sorry to hear of your experience.

Thanks for sharing it though. It brought to mind the experience of those living before the Great War.
The year the world changed

David Davidovich · Jun 7, 2022

David Davidovich said: ↑
I don't understand. I know that most Christians believe that Jesus is God and that he created the world, and that your religion believes that at one time, Jesus was God's first created angel who was there when God created the earth and assisted God in creating the earth, therefore, I don't understand how you can say that Jesus was familiar with storms, but not hurricanes.

nPeace said:
The basic difference between a tropical storm and a hurricane lies in the intensity of the cyclone. • If the wind speeds of the cyclone are greater than 39 mph, it is referred to as a tropical storm. • When the wind speeds become greater than 73 mph, the same cyclone becomes a hurricane (or a typhoon).

Psalms 55:8
saah: to rush (of storm wind)

Job 37:9
cuwphah: Sea - Definition: a storm wind

Storms formed over the sea, and they caused sailors a bit of trouble. That's it.
Jonah 1:4-5; Jonah 1:12; Matthew 8:23-24; Acts of the Apostles 27:13-20
The increasing intensity of storms, to become hurricanes, is a by product of man's mismanagement of the earth.
Some scientists state this, but of course, as usual it is debated.

Jesus wouldn't have experienced a hurricane prior to his return to heaven.
History of Hurricanes.
The list of United States hurricanes includes all tropical cyclones officially recorded to have produced sustained winds of greater than 74 mph (119 km/h) in the United States, which is the minimum threshold for hurricane intensity

But, nPeace, wouldn't all of that be besides the point since Jesus was supposed to have been foreseeing the 20th and 21th centuries past the year 1914 and therefore, didn't need to only mention calamities that he was familiar with?

Also, I'm sure that there's a Greek or Aramaic word for "super" or "hyper" or "unusually strong."

Plus, that would include mentioning something specific such as blazing wildfires in one place after another.

nPeace said:
Did I say that? No. Definitely not.
Perhaps you are scanning the posts a bit too fast.
Taking time to read what the poster says, would prevent that mistake.

In your post #18(hyperlink) you said:

Take just this one part, for example Matthew 24:14. This is entirely absent in Rome... at any time... except today.

nPeace said:
No. Matthew 24:7 is not specially referring to a world war.

So, why have you been saying that it is referring to World War I throughout this thread?

David Davidovich said: ↑
But how would anyone now know how typhoons were back then... or earthquakes or even other calamities?

nPeace said:
The data is there to be studied.
It's like how people living today, know that attitudes are quite different to the past. Data is also pased down through generations.

Well, I don't think that you realize this, but you are implying that other generations did experience the things that Jesus foretold in Matthew 24. And as far as people living today knowing that attitudes are quite different than attitudes of the past, please at least scan through part 2 of my OP and tell me what you think about what the historical records say about how attitudes and behaviors were in first century Rome.

(Hint: No one today is known to have coliseum amusement with dangerous killer animals as regular entertainment.)

nPeace said:
You'll need to demonstrate that it's not true. What do you say is not universal?

Well, that's why I appreciated It Aint Necessarily So's post #22(hyperlink) so much. But click on that link and read what he had to say because he demonstrate that better than I can.

nPeace said:
I'm not looking to convince you. That's why I asked the question, because if you wanted a point of view, and one is given, and everytime one is given, you go, "...but...", it's more than asking for a point of view. Is that true?
It's more like "prove to me..." Or "convince me...". Not true?

First of all, I have to apologize to you, however, keep in mind that as the author of this thread, I decided to take on the responsibility to read each and every reply... Or at least try to skim over them if they are long (and sometimes I have to move forward after reading someone's post and decide to come back later and reply to it). And then when someone has a really long post, I have to hit the brakes and slow down so that I can read and understand that post. Therefore, that is what happened with your post.

Second of all, in my OP I said:

But before I post some quotes from some links about how bad life was during first century Rome, I wanted to also say that I posted this thread in a non-debate forum because I only wanted people to share their point of view, and to agree or disagree with others' point of view. However, I really didn't want anyone to go after each other. Therefore, please share with me what you know about how good or how bad political and social conditions were throughout history.

Therefore, at the beginning of this thread I indicated that even though I really didn't want a debate per say, this thread still wasn't going to be a show-and-tell type of thread. But I wanted people to agree or disagree with what other people said.

And thirdly, from what I know about Jehovah's Witnesses on discussion forums, and even with an experience that I had at this forum, I noticed that sometimes Jehovah's Witnesses only like to preach or convey their message since they believe that they are the only Christian religion that has the actual truth. Just like there was this one Jehovah's Witness in another thread who wouldn't really read the other viewpoint/explanation/counterargument that I was giving, and only posted the jw.org link and told you to go there and read this and read that. Therefore, sometimes I kind of have my guard up with Jehovah's Witnesses because I have experienced that sometimes that don't want to listen or to have a discussion, but only want to indoctrinate others with their beliefs.

nPeace said:
They asked because he told them, and they believed what he told them, even if they did not fully understand. Similar to when they questioned him about things he said, even though they didn't understand.
They might not have wanted to accept that he would die, but they believed what he said.

(Matthew 26:35) Peter said to him: “Even if I should have to die with you, I will by no means disown you.” All the other disciples also said the same thing.
(Luke 22:33) Then he said to him: “Lord, I am ready to go with you both to prison and to death.”
(John 11:16) So Thomas, who was called the Twin, said to his fellow disciples: “Let us also go, so that we may die with him.”
They believed he would die, based on the fact that he told them he would. They just were not ready for it.

Thank you. I really appreciate you giving me an answer to that. Also, I wanted to ask: Since the disciples asked about Jesus' return in Matthew 24:3, do you know exactly what kind of return/presence/second coming that they were looking for?

Also, I watched those two videos, but I will have to discuss them some other time because it is getting late.

nPeace · Jun 7, 2022

David Davidovich said:
David Davidovich said: ↑
I don't understand. I know that most Christians believe that Jesus is God and that he created the world, and that your religion believes that at one time, Jesus was God's first created angel who was there when God created the earth and assisted God in creating the earth, therefore, I don't understand how you can say that Jesus was familiar with storms, but not hurricanes.

But, nPeace, wouldn't all of that be besides the point since Jesus was supposed to have been foreseeing the 20th and 21th centuries past the year 1914 and therefore, didn't need to only mention calamities that he was familiar with? Also, I'm sure that there's a Greek or Aramaic word for "super" or "hyper" or "unusually strong."

Plus, that would include mentioning something specific such as blazing wildfires in one place after another.

Why would he see a need to mention those specific things, when he mentione things that would come upon the earth, that would cause fear? Why mention wildfires, when wildfires did not start specifically at the time he began ruling?
Was he not answering a question - what would be the sign of your presence?
How could wildfires be a particular sign, when they started about a century after his becoming king? How would that help?

Besides that, wouldn't people say, there were likely wildfires before?

David Davidovich said:
In your post #18(hyperlink) you said:

Take just this one part, for example Matthew 24:14. This is entirely absent in Rome... at any time... except today.

Yes... and what do you understand by except today?

David Davidovich said:
So, why have you been saying that it is referring to World War I throughout this thread?

I have. Where? What did I say is referring to World War I?

David Davidovich said:
David Davidovich said: ↑
But how would anyone now know how typhoons were back then... or earthquakes or even other calamities?

Well, I don't think that you realize this, but you are implying that other generations did experience the things that Jesus foretold in Matthew 24. And as far as people living today knowing that attitudes are quite different than attitudes of the past, please at least scan through part 2 of my OP and tell me what you think about what the historical records say about how attitudes and behaviors were in first century Rome. (Hint: No one today is known to have coliseum amusement with dangerous killer animals as regular entertainment.)

I addressed your second post here, here, and here.
However, evidently, you haven't gotten the point. Is that because you are just scanning the post, and not taking time to read, and understand the point?

David Davidovich said:
Well, that's why I appreciated It Aint Necessarily So's post #22(hyperlink) so much. But click on that link and read what he had to say because he demonstrate that better than I can.

Then shouldn't you be able to show what is not universal, if you agree, and like it so much?
If you can't, then it can't be that useful... as it only amounts to declaring things as though they are true, but which are not demonstrated to be true... as usual.

David Davidovich said:
First of all, I have to apologize to you, however, keep in mind that as the author of this thread, I decided to take on the responsibility to read each and every reply... Or at least try to skim over them if they are long (and sometimes I have to move forward after reading someone's post and decide to come back later and reply to it). And then when someone has a really long post, I have to hit the brakes and slow down so that I can read and understand that post. Therefore, that is what happened with your post.

Okay. I understand, and can appreciate how much effort that requires... especially since I have had to do it before.

David Davidovich said:
Second of all, in my OP I said:

But before I post some quotes from some links about how bad life was during first century Rome, I wanted to also say that I posted this thread in a non-debate forum because I only wanted people to share their point of view, and to agree or disagree with others' point of view. However, I really didn't want anyone to go after each other. Therefore, please share with me what you know about how good or how bad political and social conditions were throughout history.

Therefore, at the beginning of this thread I indicated that even though I really didn't want a debate per say, this thread still wasn't going to be a show-and-tell type of thread. But I wanted people to agree or disagree with what other people said.

Okay. I understand.
In other words, pit the Atheists, and skeptics against the Bible, and watch 'Christians' try to defend it.

I got yah.

Would you mind using the darkest color. For example, red, blue... I have trouble reading the texts when the normal red and blue, etc., are used.

David Davidovich said:
And thirdly, from what I know about Jehovah's Witnesses on discussion forums, and even with an experience that I had at this forum, I noticed that sometimes Jehovah's Witnesses only like to preach or convey their message since they believe that they are the only Christian religion that has the actual truth. Just like there was this one Jehovah's Witness in another thread who wouldn't really read the other viewpoint/explanation/counterargument that I was giving, and only posted the jw.org link and told you to go there and read this and read that. Therefore, sometimes I kind of have my guard up with Jehovah's Witnesses because I have experienced that sometimes that don't want to listen or to have a discussion, but only want to indoctrinate others with their beliefs.

Okay. Have you noticed me doing that?
If you ask a question concerning my beliefs, which can easily be answered with a video, or article, I will provide a link, rather than use up time, and finger tapping exercises.

Otherwise, I use the Bible. So you might more tire of hearing scripture quotations.

David Davidovich said:
Thank you. I really appreciate you giving me an answer to that. Also, I wanted to ask: Since the disciples asked about Jesus' return in Matthew 24:3, do you know exactly what kind of return/presence/second coming that they were looking for?

Just the signs, is what they were told to look for.
The signs indicated this.
Jesus began ruling as king. Revelation 12:1-5
Whatever that involves would commence.
The Bible tells us what it involves. Revelation 12:12-17
Satan being cast to the earth along with his angels is evident from the woes on the earth, as prophesied.
There are other things.

However, I believe you are familiar with these things, since you are very familiar with the teachings of JWs.
As you explained though, you are more interested in seeing how Christians defend themselves and their beliefs against attacks.

Still wondering... were you one of Jehovah's Witnesses before?

David Davidovich said:
Also, I watched those two videos, but I will have to discuss them some other time because it is getting late.

Great. No problem.
Did you watch the one on 1914, which I linked in this post?[/QUOTE]

David Davidovich · Jun 7, 2022

Part 1 (I have to divide my reply to nPeace in two posts since his or her post was so long.)

nPeace said:
Why would he see a need to mention those specific things, when he mentione things that would come upon the earth, that would cause fear? Why mention wildfires, when wildfires did not start specifically at the time he began ruling?
Was he not answering a question - what would be the sign of your presence?

How could wildfires be a particular sign, when they started about a century after his becoming king? How would that help?

Yeah, but doesn't Matthew 24:8 say: All these are the beginning of birth pains. (biblehub.com)? And which is similar to how the book of Revelation is supposed to show occurrences and calamities throughout the decades after the supposed start of the last days in the year 1914, and not just what immediately happened after 1914? (Although, technically, World War I started prior to Jehovah's Witnesses' number crunching of the month of the October in 1914 when the last days were supposed to have started.)

nPeace said:
Besides that, wouldn't people say, there were likely wildfires before?

That was cheap.

But getting back to typhoons and hurricanes, the information that I looked up is different from what you were saying:

Intense hurricanes possibly more powerful than any storms New England has experienced in recorded history frequently pounded the region during the first millennium, from the peak of the Roman Empire to the height of the Middle Ages, according to results of a new study.

. . .

Warmer sea surface temperatures

The intense prehistoric hurricanes were fueled in part by warmer sea surface temperatures in the Atlantic Ocean than have been the norm off the U.S. East Coast over the last few hundred years.

However, as ocean temperatures have slowly inched upward in recent decades, tropical North Atlantic sea surface temperatures have surpassed the warmth of prehistoric levels--and are expected to warm more over the next century as the climate heats up, Donnelly said.

click here: Monster hurricanes struck U.S. Northeast during prehistoric periods of ocean warming | NSF - National Science Foundation

Therefore, what you said about Jesus not being familiar with hurricanes and typhoons, is not really valid if he was supposed to have had a heavenly pre-existence that goes back prior to the founding of the world.

Also, with what you're saying about 1914, hurricanes and typhoons actually fit right in

HURRICANES FROM 1900 TO 1950: DURING THIS TIME, AREAS ON THE GULF OF MEXICO, LIKE THOSE ON THE ATLANTIC COAST, EXPERIENCED SOME OF THE MOST INTENSE HURRICANES OF THIS CENTURY.

1900: Known as "the Galveston Hurricane," the deadliest hurricane disaster in U.S. history occurred on September 8. More than 6,000 people died when hurricane storm tides (the surge plus the astronomical tide) of 8-15 feet inundated the entire island city of Galveston, TX. More than half of all the homes and buildings were destroyed. Property damage is estimated at $700 million in 1990 dollars.

1906: The second September storm of 1906 was one of great violence. On the 27th the hurricane reached the middle Gulf Coast. Destructive winds and unprecedented tides accompanied the storm. At Pensacola, FL, the tide was 10 feet above normal. It was said to have been the most violent storm there in 170 years. At Mobile,AL property damage was severe. The storm's tide was 9.9 feet above normal. A total of 134 lives were lost from Pensacola, FL to Mississippi in this storm.

1909: 1909 was a very active year. Out of 12 tropical cyclones, four were hurricanes. On July 20th, a hurricane passed directly over Velasco, TX. There, the calm center lasted 45 minutes, and was followed by devastating winds on the other side which destroyed one-half of the town. In August, a very violent hurricane raked Haiti, caused high winds and rains in Cuba, and entered the Yucatan Channel on August 25. As the storm approached the Mexican coast it caused gales and tremendous seas along the Texas coast. It went to Northeastern Mexico causing an enormous loss of life and property. Unofficial estimates placed the Mexican death toll at 1,500 as a result of floods and mud slides. On September 20, 1909, another intense hurricane crossed the middle Gulf Coast passing about 50 miles west of New Orleans, LA. at 8 p.m. A wide portion of the Louisiana coast was inundated. About 350 lives were lost in Louisiana and Mississippi. It was the same intensity as "the Galveston Hurricane" of 1900 (931) millibars (mb)). [A millibar is a unit of atmospheric pressure equal to .0295 inches of mercury.]

1915: On August 16, Galveston, TX was the site of a very large and violent storm. Despite a 10 foot high sea wall built after the 1900 hurricane, storm tides 12 feet above normal flooded the business district to a depth of six feet. 275 people lost their lives from a combination of high water and strong winds. On September 29, another ferocious hurricane of similar intensity to the August storm occurred, reaching the Louisiana coast. At Burrwood, LA, winds were clocked at 125-140 miles per hour. As manay as 90% of the buildings were destroyed. At several places on the Mississippi River below New Orleans and on Lake Pontchartrain, LA. an estimated 275 lives were lost despite advanced warnings.

1919: The fourth most intense and deadly storm of the 20th century passed near Key West, FL on September 9-10. The slow moving storm reached an intensity of 27.37 inches (927 mb) in the vicinity of the Dry Tortugas--Florida islands 65 miles west of Key West. Ten vessels were lost at sea accounting for more than 500 of the 800-900 deaths. The hurricane continued slowly westward and on September 14, the center went inland south of Corpus Christi, TX. There, tides rose 16 feet above normal and another 287 lives were lost.

1947: The most severe hurricane of the 1947 season crossed over Florida and hit Louisiana and Mississippi. The center of the very large and intense storm hit Hillsboro Light, FL, on September 17 with winds of 155 mph. After leaving Florida, the huge hurricane took a northwesterly course over the Gulf of Mexico and onto the Mississippi and Louisiana coasts. Tides rose to 12 feet at Biloxi,Bay St. Louis, and Gulfport, MS. The eye of the storm passed directly over New Orleans, LA, and was estimated at 25 miles in diameter. A total of 51 lives were lost--17 in Florida, 12 in Louisiana and 22 in Mississippi. Total damage was more than $700 million (in 1990 dollars).

HURRICANES OF THE '50S: DESPITE A GOOD NUMBER OF HURRICANES AND< TROPICAL STORMS TO HIT THE GULF COAST IN THE '50S, AUDREY, THE FIRST HURRICANE OF 1957 WAS THE MOST MEMORABLE.

Hurricane Audrey, June 27. 1957: Hurricane Audrey made landfall near the Texas-Louisiana border on June 27th with devastating effects. Its central pressure deepened considerably in the last five hours before landfall. There were 390 deaths as the result of a storm surge in excess of 12 feet, which inundated the flat coast of Louisiana as far as 25 miles inland in some places. Damages were estimated at about $700 million (in 1990 dollars).

click here: MEMORABLE GULF COAST HURRICANES OF THE 20TH CENTURY (noaa.gov)

David Davidovich said: ↑
In your post #18(hyperlink) you said:

Take just this one part, for example Matthew 24:14. This is entirely absent in Rome... at any time... except today.

nPeace said:
Yes... and what do you understand by except today?

You misunderstood my point. Because in your post #18, you said that Matthew 24:14 was entirely absent in Rome. But it wasn't because there was a congregation in Rome, therefore, the gospel had to have been preached in Rome.

nPeace said:
I have. Where? What did I say is referring to World War I?

Oh, Gosh!

I'm going to have to go through this entire thread to show you were I said that.

However, I'll have to do that some other time because it's already taking me long enough to compose this reply in this post.

David Davidovich · Jun 7, 2022

Part 2

nPeace said:
I addressed your second post here, here, and here.
However, evidently, you haven't gotten the point. Is that because you are just scanning the post, and not taking time to read, and understand the point?

I got the point, but once again, I will ask you: please at least scan through part 2 of my OP and tell me what you think about what the historical records say about how attitudes and behaviors were in first century Rome.

Or perhaps I such ask you to read the parts under certain subtitles in part 2 that pertain to that.

nPeace said:
Then shouldn't you be able to show what is not universal, if you agree, and like it so much?
If you can't, then it can't be that useful... as it only amounts to declaring things as though they are true, but which are not demonstrated to be true... as usual.

Okay, well, I didn't really know this before, but after reading It Aint Necessarily So's post #22, I can now say that things can be less intense in other parts of the world compared to how conditions are in the United States. Also, I decided to do a search and will list a few links that show that there are other parts of the world that are not as intense and as violent as we perceive the United States to be:

Safest Countries in the World 2022 (worldpopulationreview.com)

Most Peaceful Countries 2022 (worldpopulationreview.com)

The Most Peaceful Countries in The World 2021 | Global Finance Magazine (gfmag.com)

Least Corrupt Countries 2022 (worldpopulationreview.com)

Most Violent Countries 2022 (worldpopulationreview.com)

These Are the Least Corrupt Countries | U.S. News Best Countries (usnews.com)

nPeace said:
Okay. I understand, and can appreciate how much effort that requires... especially since I have had to do it before.

Thank you.

nPeace said:
Okay. I understand.
In other words, pit the Atheists, and skeptics against the Bible, and watch 'Christians' try to defend it.
I got yah.

Another cheap shot.

But okay, the Amazing Kreskin.

Judge ye not?

But apparently, you didn't read my post #60(hyperlink).

nPeace said:
Would you mind using the darkest color. For example, red, blue... I have trouble reading the texts when the normal red and blue, etc., are used.

Okey-dokey.

nPeace said:
Okay. Have you noticed me doing that?
If you ask a question concerning my beliefs, which can easily be answered with a video, or article, I will provide a link, rather than use up time, and finger tapping exercises.

Well, it was kind of hard to tell when you're bombarded with a long post with multiple videos and multiple images from jw.org.

nPeace said:
Otherwise, I use the Bible. So you might more tire of hearing scripture quotations.

Or it could have been more so your dogmatic interpretation.

nPeace said:
Just the signs, is what they were told to look for.
The signs indicated this.
Jesus began ruling as king. Revelation 12:1-5
Whatever that involves would commence.
The Bible tells us what it involves. Revelation 12:12-17
Satan being cast to the earth along with his angels is evident from the woes on the earth, as prophesied.
There are other things.

But aren't the woes supposed to also include natural disaster, etc.? Because I don't see how Satan being cast to the earth could cause the natural disasters. Also, do you know anything about the year 536 CE?

nPeace said:
However, I believe you are familiar with these things, since you are very familiar with the teachings of JWs.
As you explained though, you are more interested in seeing how Christians defend themselves and their beliefs against attacks.

Attacks?... Wow! Persecution complex much? LOL

nPeace said:
Still wondering... were you one of Jehovah's Witnesses before?

I used to study with them.

nPeace said:
Great. No problem.
Did you watch the one on 1914, which I linked in this post?

I don't see a video in that post. Although, for next time, it sure be easier for me if you just posted the video link again instead of me having to take the time and look through a post, which doen't even have a video link in it.

nPeace · Jun 8, 2022

David Davidovich said:
Part 1 (I have to divide my reply to nPeace in two posts since his or her post was so long.)

Lol. What an excuse David. Why not just admit that your long essay made the post too long for RF, so you had to split it. LOL.

David Davidovich said:
Yeah, but doesn't Matthew 24:8 say: All these are the beginning of birth pains. (biblehub.com)? And which is similar to how the book of Revelation is supposed to show occurrences and calamities throughout the decades after the supposed start of the last days in the year 1914, and not just what immediately happened after 1914? (Although, technically, World War I started prior to Jehovah's Witnesses' number crunching of the month of the October in 1914 when the last days were supposed to have started.)

And your point is...?

David Davidovich said:
That was cheap.

Hmm. Someone feels guilty.
As the saying goes... If the cap fits...

David Davidovich said:
But getting back to typhoons and hurricanes, the information that I looked up is different from what you were saying:

Intense hurricanes possibly more powerful than any storms New England has experienced in recorded history frequently pounded the region during the first millennium, from the peak of the Roman Empire to the height of the Middle Ages, according to results of a new study.

. . .

Warmer sea surface temperatures

The intense prehistoric hurricanes were fueled in part by warmer sea surface temperatures in the Atlantic Ocean than have been the norm off the U.S. East Coast over the last few hundred years.

However, as ocean temperatures have slowly inched upward in recent decades, tropical North Atlantic sea surface temperatures have surpassed the warmth of prehistoric levels--and are expected to warm more over the next century as the climate heats up, Donnelly said.

click here: Monster hurricanes struck U.S. Northeast during prehistoric periods of ocean warming | NSF - National Science Foundation

Therefore, what you said about Jesus not being familiar with hurricanes and typhoons, is not really valid if he was supposed to have had a heavenly pre-existence that goes back prior to the founding of the world.

Also, with what you're saying about 1914, hurricanes and typhoons actually fit right in

HURRICANES FROM 1900 TO 1950: DURING THIS TIME, AREAS ON THE GULF OF MEXICO, LIKE THOSE ON THE ATLANTIC COAST, EXPERIENCED SOME OF THE MOST INTENSE HURRICANES OF THIS CENTURY.

1900: Known as "the Galveston Hurricane," the deadliest hurricane disaster in U.S. history occurred on September 8. More than 6,000 people died when hurricane storm tides (the surge plus the astronomical tide) of 8-15 feet inundated the entire island city of Galveston, TX. More than half of all the homes and buildings were destroyed. Property damage is estimated at $700 million in 1990 dollars.

1906: The second September storm of 1906 was one of great violence. On the 27th the hurricane reached the middle Gulf Coast. Destructive winds and unprecedented tides accompanied the storm. At Pensacola, FL, the tide was 10 feet above normal. It was said to have been the most violent storm there in 170 years. At Mobile,AL property damage was severe. The storm's tide was 9.9 feet above normal. A total of 134 lives were lost from Pensacola, FL to Mississippi in this storm.

1909: 1909 was a very active year. Out of 12 tropical cyclones, four were hurricanes. On July 20th, a hurricane passed directly over Velasco, TX. There, the calm center lasted 45 minutes, and was followed by devastating winds on the other side which destroyed one-half of the town. In August, a very violent hurricane raked Haiti, caused high winds and rains in Cuba, and entered the Yucatan Channel on August 25. As the storm approached the Mexican coast it caused gales and tremendous seas along the Texas coast. It went to Northeastern Mexico causing an enormous loss of life and property. Unofficial estimates placed the Mexican death toll at 1,500 as a result of floods and mud slides. On September 20, 1909, another intense hurricane crossed the middle Gulf Coast passing about 50 miles west of New Orleans, LA. at 8 p.m. A wide portion of the Louisiana coast was inundated. About 350 lives were lost in Louisiana and Mississippi. It was the same intensity as "the Galveston Hurricane" of 1900 (931) millibars (mb)). [A millibar is a unit of atmospheric pressure equal to .0295 inches of mercury.]

1915: On August 16, Galveston, TX was the site of a very large and violent storm. Despite a 10 foot high sea wall built after the 1900 hurricane, storm tides 12 feet above normal flooded the business district to a depth of six feet. 275 people lost their lives from a combination of high water and strong winds. On September 29, another ferocious hurricane of similar intensity to the August storm occurred, reaching the Louisiana coast. At Burrwood, LA, winds were clocked at 125-140 miles per hour. As manay as 90% of the buildings were destroyed. At several places on the Mississippi River below New Orleans and on Lake Pontchartrain, LA. an estimated 275 lives were lost despite advanced warnings.

1919: The fourth most intense and deadly storm of the 20th century passed near Key West, FL on September 9-10. The slow moving storm reached an intensity of 27.37 inches (927 mb) in the vicinity of the Dry Tortugas--Florida islands 65 miles west of Key West. Ten vessels were lost at sea accounting for more than 500 of the 800-900 deaths. The hurricane continued slowly westward and on September 14, the center went inland south of Corpus Christi, TX. There, tides rose 16 feet above normal and another 287 lives were lost.

1947: The most severe hurricane of the 1947 season crossed over Florida and hit Louisiana and Mississippi. The center of the very large and intense storm hit Hillsboro Light, FL, on September 17 with winds of 155 mph. After leaving Florida, the huge hurricane took a northwesterly course over the Gulf of Mexico and onto the Mississippi and Louisiana coasts. Tides rose to 12 feet at Biloxi,Bay St. Louis, and Gulfport, MS. The eye of the storm passed directly over New Orleans, LA, and was estimated at 25 miles in diameter. A total of 51 lives were lost--17 in Florida, 12 in Louisiana and 22 in Mississippi. Total damage was more than $700 million (in 1990 dollars).

HURRICANES OF THE '50S: DESPITE A GOOD NUMBER OF HURRICANES AND< TROPICAL STORMS TO HIT THE GULF COAST IN THE '50S, AUDREY, THE FIRST HURRICANE OF 1957 WAS THE MOST MEMORABLE.

Hurricane Audrey, June 27. 1957: Hurricane Audrey made landfall near the Texas-Louisiana border on June 27th with devastating effects. Its central pressure deepened considerably in the last five hours before landfall. There were 390 deaths as the result of a storm surge in excess of 12 feet, which inundated the flat coast of Louisiana as far as 25 miles inland in some places. Damages were estimated at about $700 million (in 1990 dollars).

click here: MEMORABLE GULF COAST HURRICANES OF THE 20TH CENTURY (noaa.gov)

I only need the first part of your article... Intense hurricanes possibly more powerful than any storms
Guessing, pretty much.

David Davidovich said:
David Davidovich said: ↑
In your post #18(hyperlink) you said:

Take just this one part, for example Matthew 24:14. This is entirely absent in Rome... at any time... except today.

You misunderstood my point. Because in your post #18, you said that Matthew 24:14 was entirely absent in Rome. But it wasn't because there was a congregation in Rome, therefore, the gospel had to have been preached in Rome.

Did you read Matthew 24:14? Please explain what you understand it to be saying.

David Davidovich said:
Oh, Gosh! I'm going to have to go through this entire thread to show you were I said that. However, I'll have to do that some other time because it's already taking me long enough to compose this reply in this post.

Take all the time you need.
I'll be sure to remind you, if you forget.

Just a friendly reminder. RF rules recommends ... When quoting material external to RF, even if it is your own, always provide a citation and limit your quotation to a paragraph or two rather than quoting the entire content (see Rule 4 for additional guidelines).

nPeace · Jun 8, 2022

David Davidovich said:
Part 2

I got the point, but once again, I will ask you: please at least scan through part 2 of my OP and tell me what you think about what the historical records say about how attitudes and behaviors were in first century Rome. Or perhaps I such ask you to read the parts under certain subtitles in part 2 that pertain to that.

If you got the point, you wouldn't be asking me to look through part 2 of your OP, and tell you what I think about what the historical records say about how attitudes and behaviors were in first century Rome.
is Rome the whole world? Then you missed the point.

David Davidovich said:
Okay, well, I didn't really know this before, but after reading It Aint Necessarily So's post #22, I can now say that things can be less intense in other parts of the world compared to how conditions are in the United States. Also, I decided to do a search and will list a few links that show that there are other parts of the world that are not as intense and as violent as we perceive the United States to be:

Safest Countries in the World 2022 (worldpopulationreview.com)

Most Peaceful Countries 2022 (worldpopulationreview.com)

The Most Peaceful Countries in The World 2021 | Global Finance Magazine (gfmag.com)

Least Corrupt Countries 2022 (worldpopulationreview.com)

Most Violent Countries 2022 (worldpopulationreview.com)

These Are the Least Corrupt Countries | U.S. News Best Countries (usnews.com)

Thank you.

Another cheap shot. But okay, the Amazing Kreskin. Judge ye not? But apparently, you didn't read my post #60(hyperlink).

What? Do you usually think every general statement applys to you personally?
Man, that's sad.

David Davidovich said:
Okey-dokey.

Well, it was kind of hard to tell when you're bombarded with a long post with multiple videos and multiple images from jw.org.

One image from jw.org. One video from jw.org.
Dude... are you okay?

David Davidovich said:
Or it could have been more so your dogmatic interpretation.

Wow.

David Davidovich said:
But aren't the woes supposed to also include natural disaster, etc.? Because I don't see how Satan being cast to the earth could cause the natural disasters. Also, do you know anything about the year 536 CE?
The woes on the earth would be everything that is a result of Satan's activity.

I don't know everything that Satan may do directly, but I know he uses man, and he teaches man, so man's actions can create one domino effect after another, which can affect lives in many ways... woes for the earth.

David Davidovich said:
Attacks?... Wow! Persecution complex much? LOL

I used to study with them.

You were a good student, I must say, to take in and understand so much.

You didn't go any further than studying... like getting baptized? Do you mind me aking why?

David Davidovich said:
I don't see a video in that post. Although, for next time, it sure be easier for me if you just posted the video link again instead of me having to take the time and look through a post, which doen't even have a video link in it.

Well that's the reason I referred you to the post again, because there is a link to the video in that post (I triple checked), and the only possible way one can miss it, is if they are not taking the time to read the post.
Since I am not sitting here typing for my health, I am not going to post something someone does not take time to read, and then repost a part to them. What! Am I stupid!

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