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Chr-stians: Forget about the Bible

Messianic Israelite

Active Member
I was provoked in spirit again this year, as at Easter time I saw Chr-stians carrying a big cross with them through the streets. Why do so many Chr-stians engage in things which are in my opinion completely unbiblical, I wonder. Why do so many refuse to keep the Biblical commandments, yet create practices for themselves which in my opinion Yahweh doesn't want us to do? I still to this day don't know why Chr-stians do this. Why are they carrying a huge cross with them through the streets? Is it to attract attention, to say, look at me? In my opinion to have a sound mind, we have to obey what Yahweh commands.

But what it might be worth to consider is that according to the Bible, Yahshua the Messiah did not die on a cross. In my opinion, Chr-stianity has made an idol out of the cross and therefore is in false doctrine. A shocking surprise to the diligent Bible student is the knowledge that the pagans were using a "cross" as a symbol of their worship hundreds of years before our Savior Yahshua the Messiah was put to death. Variations of the cross may be found associated with almost every sun deity which was ever worshiped. The cross was also used as a sex symbol. In the Holy Land was discovered a corpse of a man put to death exactly as the New Testament writers describe the death which our Savior suffered. The surprising thing, which causes consternation among ecclesiastical circles, was that this person appeared to have been put to death in a different manner than the usual "crucifixion" of our Savior depicted in religious art. The criminal had been put to death on a post, with his hands and feet nailed together.

The word "cross" is entirely foreign to the words which are used in the New Testament for the instrument of torture upon which our Savior was placed. Two words have been translated "cross" and they are "stauros" and "xulon". A "stauros" was an upright post, similar to a fence paling, upon which criminal were nailed for execution (with their hands fixed in an upright position over their heads). The word "stauros" means "to drive stakes". A "xulon" was simply a dead log as distinguished from a green tree. Neither of these words ever mean a piece of manufactured work such as a cross, especially two pieces of timber nailed at right angles to each other. There is nothing in the Greek to even imply two pieces of timber. You may wish to read part of the study on "The Cross and Crucifixion," Appendix # 162 in the Companion Bible. Should we even revere the cross? Just think about this for a moment. If our Savior had been executed by hanging, would we sing lyrics to the "Old Hangman's Noose"? Had Yahshua had been put to death by cyanide, would we sing praises to the "Old Gas Chamber"? Quite ridiculous.

What if you were to learn that what Chr-stians are wearing round their necks, or hauling down the streets at Easter time is in fact a pagan, sun worship symbol? Horrors. My thread title is facetious, yet this is what so many are doing. Do what you want, but forget about the Bible. The Bible tells us to keep the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread, yet somehow it has been changed to Easter, yet if we peruse a concordance to locate the word "Easter" in the Bible, we learn that it is found only one time in the King James Version, in Acts 12:4. A close examination of Greek text yields the fact that word "Easter" is not found there. Neither is it found in the Aramaic (Syriac) New Testament. Both texts read "pascha" which is derived from the Hebrew word pesach. It means Passover.

These things have got me thinking and I'm beginning to ask, Is there anyone that actually cares what the Bible says? Sometimes I feel like EliYah who said "10 And he said, I have been very jealous for Yahweh, the Elohim of hosts; for the children of Israel have forsaken your covenant, thrown down your altars, and killed your prophets with the sword: and I, even I only, am left"

I hope and pray that John 4:23 will be fulfilled in a greater way and soon: "Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
I was provoked in spirit again this year, as at Easter time I saw Chr-stians carrying a big cross with them through the streets. Why do so many Chr-stians engage in things which are in my opinion completely unbiblical, I wonder. Why do so many refuse to keep the Biblical commandments, yet create practices for themselves which in my opinion Yahweh doesn't want us to do? I still to this day don't know why Chr-stians do this. Why are they carrying a huge cross with them through the streets? Is it to attract attention, to say, look at me? In my opinion to have a sound mind, we have to obey what Yahweh commands.

But what it might be worth to consider is that according to the Bible, Yahshua the Messiah did not die on a cross. In my opinion, Chr-stianity has made an idol out of the cross and therefore is in false doctrine. A shocking surprise to the diligent Bible student is the knowledge that the pagans were using a "cross" as a symbol of their worship hundreds of years before our Savior Yahshua the Messiah was put to death. Variations of the cross may be found associated with almost every sun deity which was ever worshiped. The cross was also used as a sex symbol. In the Holy Land was discovered a corpse of a man put to death exactly as the New Testament writers describe the death which our Savior suffered. The surprising thing, which causes consternation among ecclesiastical circles, was that this person appeared to have been put to death in a different manner than the usual "crucifixion" of our Savior depicted in religious art. The criminal had been put to death on a post, with his hands and feet nailed together.

The word "cross" is entirely foreign to the words which are used in the New Testament for the instrument of torture upon which our Savior was placed. Two words have been translated "cross" and they are "stauros" and "xulon". A "stauros" was an upright post, similar to a fence paling, upon which criminal were nailed for execution (with their hands fixed in an upright position over their heads). The word "stauros" means "to drive stakes". A "xulon" was simply a dead log as distinguished from a green tree. Neither of these words ever mean a piece of manufactured work such as a cross, especially two pieces of timber nailed at right angles to each other. There is nothing in the Greek to even imply two pieces of timber. You may wish to read part of the study on "The Cross and Crucifixion," Appendix # 162 in the Companion Bible. Should we even revere the cross? Just think about this for a moment. If our Savior had been executed by hanging, would we sing lyrics to the "Old Hangman's Noose"? Had Yahshua had been put to death by cyanide, would we sing praises to the "Old Gas Chamber"? Quite ridiculous.

What if you were to learn that what Chr-stians are wearing round their necks, or hauling down the streets at Easter time is in fact a pagan, sun worship symbol? Horrors. My thread title is facetious, yet this is what so many are doing. Do what you want, but forget about the Bible. The Bible tells us to keep the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread, yet somehow it has been changed to Easter, yet if we peruse a concordance to locate the word "Easter" in the Bible, we learn that it is found only one time in the King James Version, in Acts 12:4. A close examination of Greek text yields the fact that word "Easter" is not found there. Neither is it found in the Aramaic (Syriac) New Testament. Both texts read "pascha" which is derived from the Hebrew word pesach. It means Passover.

These things have got me thinking and I'm beginning to ask, Is there anyone that actually cares what the Bible says? Sometimes I feel like EliYah who said "10 And he said, I have been very jealous for Yahweh, the Elohim of hosts; for the children of Israel have forsaken your covenant, thrown down your altars, and killed your prophets with the sword: and I, even I only, am left"

I hope and pray that John 4:23 will be fulfilled in a greater way and soon: "Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father
They crucified people in various ways. Just because they found evidence of one person being crucified on a beam without a cross section that doesn't mean it was always the case. Jesus could have very easily been crucified on a cross. The symbolism of a cross goes back so far because people were watching the sky. The constellation called the southern cross for example was actually visible in parts of the northern hemisphere back then.

I think the scripture says the heavens declare the glory of the LORD so it's not surprising to me.

Jesus himself commands his followers to "take up your cross" and follow me. So i think for a lot of people carrying around a cross is just an attempt to be obedient to Christ. Are they right in taking the command so literally when it's obviously figurative? Probably not. But I don't think it's a big deal if they want to carry a cross through the streets. It's nothing really. It gives glory to Christ.

As for praises for the cross like the old rugged cross. The song is about what Jesus did on the cross. You're taking it so literally but it's full of deeper meaning and it takes thought to understand songs like that.

For example the song speaks of cherishing the old rugged cross; but what they mean is that they will happily endure trials and suffering for Christ until the day they "exchange it" for a crown. It's about following Christ faithfully and it's about what Christ did for them. It's not about venerating an object.

It's good that you're zealous for God; but zeal can be misplaced sometimes. Even Paul was zealous when he hunted down people for following Christ. (see Philippians 3:6) So zeal can be wrongly directed.
 

paradox

(㇏(•̀ᵥᵥ•́)ノ)
A shocking surprise to the diligent Bible student is the knowledge that the pagans were using a "cross" as a symbol of their worship hundreds of years before our Savior Yahshua the Messiah was put to death.
There's nothing shocking here, crucifixion comes from Iran, this practice come from there and it was used against those who stand against the king or empire.
Jesus dying on cross is not invention of a cross and nobody is claiming anything similar, we know symbol of a cross existed before.

You complain how the bible doesn't explicitly say this or doesn't say that, but the bible is not God, in fact bible says this:
2 Thessalonians 2:15

Therefore bible does not have the ultimate say.

Should we even revere the cross? Just think about this for a moment. If our Savior had been executed by hanging, would we sing lyrics to the "Old Hangman's Noose"? Had Yahshua had been put to death by cyanide, would we sing praises to the "Old Gas Chamber"? Quite ridiculous.
You said "Quite ridiculous" but you're not new, in fact your opinion is well known since ancient times, I warmly suggest you read this:
1 Corinthians 1:18-25
 

Messianic Israelite

Active Member
They crucified people in various ways. Just because they found evidence of one person being crucified on a beam without a cross section that doesn't mean it was always the case. Jesus could have very easily been crucified on a cross. The symbolism of a cross goes back so far because people were watching the sky. The constellation called the southern cross for example was actually visible in parts of the northern hemisphere back then.

I think the scripture says the heavens declare the glory of the LORD so it's not surprising to me.

Jesus himself commands his followers to "take up your cross" and follow me. So i think for a lot of people carrying around a cross is just an attempt to be obedient to Christ. Are they right in taking the command so literally when it's obviously figurative? Probably not. But I don't think it's a big deal if they want to carry a cross through the streets. It's nothing really. It gives glory to Christ.

As for praises for the cross like the old rugged cross. The song is about what Jesus did on the cross. You're taking it so literally but it's full of deeper meaning and it takes thought to understand songs like that.

For example the song speaks of cherishing the old rugged cross; but what they mean is that they will happily endure trials and suffering for Christ until the day they "exchange it" for a crown. It's about following Christ faithfully and it's about what Christ did for them. It's not about venerating an object.

It's good that you're zealous for God; but zeal can be misplaced sometimes. Even Paul was zealous when he hunted down people for following Christ. (see Philippians 3:6) So zeal can be wrongly directed.
Hi 74x12. Good afternoon. What you said is simply not true. What we know about Yahshua we know from the Bible, and the Bible is the authority. It tells us that Yahshua did not die on a cross but on a Stauros or Xulon. I don't see how anyone can deny this irrefutable fact. The cross certainly comes from somewhere and in pre-Chr-stian times it was as a sex symbol. It was also used a symbol of the Babylonian sun-god according to the Companion Bible commentary on the subject. The pagan symbol was borrowed by the Chr-stians. Chr-stianity has assimilated many pagan concepts over the years. This is just one of them. Further, in reference to the southern cross, we are commanded as part of he Torah not to worship the body's of heaven (Deuteronomy 4:19) and in Jeremiah 10:2 not to be dismayed at them.

The scripture you are referring to is Matthew 10:38. I would like to point your attention to the fact that this word when looked up in a a concordance is 'stauros' again and here it doesn't actually mean we should haul a upright post around with us, but that we should bear our burdens. Each one of us is carrying our own burdens. In some Bible's it's translated burden. I can't imagine Paul or the apostles hauling around huge crosses in the streets, can you? They were much too busy doing the work of Yahweh. It doesn't give glory to Yahshua. What gives glory to Yahshua is when we keep the commandments.

I can well understand that zeal can be misplaced, however, when we are zealous to follow Yahshua the Messiah by keeping the commandments as he did perfectly, we can't go wrong. Misplaced zeal comes from a lack of knowledge we read in Romans 10:2. Now you have the knowledge that the cross is actually a phallic symbol and not found anywhere in the Bible. It would be misplaced zeal to reject that knowledge in favor of embracing a doctrine that puts us in the same category as the liars found in Revelation 21:8.

The 144,000 mentioned in Revelation must have pure doctrine. You can read about them in Revelation 14: "except the hundred forty-four thousand, even they that had been purchased out of the earth. 4 These are they that were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they that follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These were purchased from among men, to be the firstfruits to Yahweh and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no lie: they are without blemish"

Yahshua my Savior bled and died and experienced a truly horrible death. He didn't deserve that punishment. On him was every sin laid. It must be paramount to every believer to believe in the Word and to adhere to it. The Bible tells us Yahshua did not die on a cross and saying that he did is not only allowing ourselves to embrace a pagan symbol, but rejecting the Truth of the Word (Psalm 119:160).

2 Timothy 2:15 says: "15 Give diligence to present yourself approved to Yahweh, a workman that needs not be ashamed, handling properly the word of truth."

I sincerely hope you will re-evaluate your views on the subject and realize that Yahweh has a controversy with the people of the world for rejecting plain truths as we read in Hosea 4:1. May Yahweh bless you.
 

Messianic Israelite

Active Member
There's nothing shocking here, crucifixion comes from Iran, this practice come from there and it was used against those who stand against the king or empire.
Jesus dying on cross is not invention of a cross and nobody is claiming anything similar, we know symbol of a cross existed before.

You complain how the bible doesn't explicitly say this or doesn't say that, but the bible is not God, in fact bible says this:
2 Thessalonians 2:15

Therefore bible does not have the ultimate say.


You said "Quite ridiculous" but you're not new, in fact your opinion is well known since ancient times, I warmly suggest you read this:
1 Corinthians 1:18-25
Hi Paradox. Good afternoon. The Bible tells us in 2 Timothy 3:16 that "Every scripture inspired of Yahweh is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness" The Bible should indeed have the ultimate say. It's a wrong spirit that claims the Bible shouldn't have the ultimate say. Of course it should. This what we should live for. It is Yahweh's mind, Yahweh's instruction as given through His chosen people. Haven't you read Psalm 18:30: "30 As for El, his way is perfect: The word of Yahweh is tried; He is a shield to all them that take refuge in him." The Word of Yahweh is tried. It can be trusted. If we don't trust in the Word, we don't trust in Yahweh and we will be thereby breaking the first commandment (in the 10 commandments) to not have any other elohim before Yahweh. We will be putting something in between us and Yahweh, whether that's our own ideas, or the ideas of men.

You cite from 2 Thessalonians 2:15, but then they are many strange doctrines within some Chr-stian groups, such as venom drinking etc. In order to fulfill this we have to get back to the original teachings that were taught by Yahshua and His apostles. The second citation you use from 1 Corinthians 1:18-25 again uses the word 'stauros'. Yahshua our Savior died on the cruel torture stake and it's his death that released us from a life bound to sin and destruction in the lake of fire.
 
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