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"Police: Woman killed man who fired AR-15-style rifle into party crowd

F1fan

Veteran Member
Sure. A guy does a home invasion with a knife. Cops show up and shoot him.
Only if he's black.

And you can't protect yourself against a guy with a knife? And why don't you secure your house if you feel you're at risk of home invasion? Get an alarm system.

Thats gun violence. Lets disarm the police.
You are using hyperbole now. That suggests you are feeling defensive. This is not an issue of police having guns. It's about lax gun laws that allow irresponsible and unfit citizens to get guns and kill people. Can you admit this is a problem in America?
 

We Never Know

No Slack
When lives are saved from gun violence it is still an indictment against guns for the violence they cause in the first place.

You think its ok for Billy Bob who grew up as a pig farmer and decided to become a cop to use any weapon his department gives him.
But you want to disarm Steve who is a retired sergeant major with 20 years of service.
That makes sense to you for some reason.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Only if he's black.

And you can't protect yourself against a guy with a knife? And why don't you secure your house if you feel you're at risk of home invasion? Get an alarm system.


You are using hyperbole now. That suggests you are feeling defensive. This is not an issue of police having guns. It's about lax gun laws that allow irresponsible and unfit citizens to get guns and kill people. Can you admit this is a problem in America?

Black? Really? Can you have a coherent conversation without bringing up race or a party?

"Get an alarm system" Thats a great idea. Banks and other business's should get an alarm systems. It would stop them from being robbed. Oh wait lol

You think its ok for Billy Bob who grew up as a pig farmer and decided to become a cop to use any weapon his department gives him.
But you want to disarm Steve who is a retired sergeant major with 20 years of service.
That makes sense to you for some reason.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
And yet, there's story after story in the news
about someone using a gun in legitimate
self defense. Your veteran says it doesn't
ever happen. He's pushing his own myth.
But it'll get a lot of frubals because it's
exactly what anti-gun types want to hear.

I will give your the first frubal
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
And yet, there's story after story in the news
about someone using a gun in legitimate
self defense. Your veteran says it doesn't
ever happen. He's pushing his own myth.
But it'll get a lot of frubals because it's
exactly what anti-gun types want to hear.

Yeah it happens.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.usnews.com/news/the-report/articles/2022-05-27/uvalde-buffalo-shootings-expose-the-myth-of-the-good-guy-with-a-gun?context=amp

How the ‘good guy with a gun’ became a deadly American fantasy

The “Good Guy with a Gun” Myth

Guns & America: The Good Guy With A Gun : 1A

Myth vs. Fact: Debunking the Gun Lobby’s Favorite Talking Points
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
So many links.
But I could counter them with story after story in the
news about armed self defense. I personally know
people IRL who've used guns in self defense.
Often it's without even firing a shot. Yet all these
websites say it doesn't happen. Pbbttttt!
There's also Gary Kleck's research to back up
what I see IRL & in the news.

Edit...
I picked one link to peruse...
How the ‘good guy with a gun’ became a deadly American fantasy
It had no evidence whatsoever that armed
self defense is mere myth.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
An FBI study of 160 active-shooting incidents from 2000 to 2013 found that only one was stopped by an individual with a valid firearms permit. In contrast, 21 incidents were stopped by unarmed citizens.5

Armed citizens can worsen the outcome of a mass shooting. During the 2011 shooting in Tucson, Arizona, an armed bystander misidentified the perpetrator and almost shot the wrong person.6

Expansive concealed carry permitting laws are linked to an increase in violent crime. A 2017 study by researchers at Stanford University found that, 10 years after enacting these laws, states experienced a 13 percent to 15 percent rise in violent crimes.7

Using a gun for defense during a robbery has no significant benefits. A 2015 analysis by researchers at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of
Public Health of the National Crime
Victimization Survey found that the likelihood of sustaining an injury during a robbery was nearly identical between people who attempted to defend themselves with a gun and those who took no defensive action.8

A gun is more likely to be stolen than used to stop a crime. According to a CAP analysis of the National Crime Victimization Survey, guns are nearly twice as likely to be stolen than to be used for self-defense.9
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
So one person's research vs numerous of fact based articles as well?

Don't mind me if I'm heavily skeptical
In my edit of the last post, I dealt with
the one link of yours that I selected.
It had no evidence that armed defense
is a myth.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
I grabbed some stats from a different article. I realize one or two were opinion pieces

Sadly its like different party's. There are things that support each as well as go against each. It depends on what the person writing the story supports. Thats my opinion.
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
An FBI study of 160 active-shooting incidents from 2000 to 2013 found that only one was stopped by an individual with a valid firearms permit. In contrast, 21 incidents were stopped by unarmed citizens.5
If shooters target gun free zones, we should
expect that any resistance will be by unarmed
people.
I wouldn't use this to claim that being unarmed
is better than being armed in a gun fight.
Armed citizens can worsen the outcome of a mass shooting. During the 2011 shooting in Tucson, Arizona, an armed bystander misidentified the perpetrator and almost shot the wrong person.6
In one incident, they "almost"....
That doesn't address the general case.
Expansive concealed carry permitting laws are linked to an increase in violent crime. A 2017 study by researchers at Stanford University found that, 10 years after enacting these laws, states experienced a 13 percent to 15 percent rise in violent crimes.7
You say "linked to" but don't show that it's causative.
Moreover, criminals don't need a concealed carry
license in order to commit a crime with a gun.
Using a gun for defense during a robbery has no significant benefits. A 2015 analysis by researchers at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of
Public Health of the National Crime
Victimization Survey found that the likelihood of sustaining an injury during a robbery was nearly identical between people who attempted to defend themselves with a gun and those who took no defensive action.8
Defensive Gun Use Is Not a Myth
A gun is more likely to be stolen than used to stop a crime. According to a CAP analysis of the National Crime Victimization Survey, guns are nearly twice as likely to be stolen than to be used for self-defense.9
This is why I favor legally requiring secure storage of guns.
Oddly, very few anti-gun types ever express agreement
on this. Could it be that any measure that both preserves
gun rights & reduces gun crimes runs counter to their
agenda to eliminate gun rights?
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I grabbed some stats from a different article. I realize one or two were opinion pieces
When hit with a flurry of links with long articles,
& I select one that I find to be empty of evidence
or cogent argument, I'm not inspired to peruse
the others.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
This is why I favor legally requiring secure storage of guns.
Oddly, very few anti-gun types ever express agreement
on this. Could it be that any measure that both preserves
gun rights & reduces gun crimes runs counter to their
agenda to eliminate gun rights?

I'm a bit tired at the moment. But. I've never been against the requirement of gun safes/storage.

My preference is testing, licensing and insuring like a motor vehicle.

Edit: I'm not for the removal of gun rights. Or even amending the 2nd. But I do want something done, that will actually work. I'm for intensive background checks, training, and routine testing/range competency, licensing, etc.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
I will leave it with this. We all think we have valid arguements for what we think, accept or believe. That doesn't make any of us right or wrong.
 
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