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Poll questions as to reducing guns deaths in the USA

metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
A retired 4-star general was interviewed last week and stated that an AR-15, which fires a high velocity projectile, is 40 times more deadly that the M-16 that our soldiers used in Vietnam.

So, why is it that such a deadly weapon is even available for an 18-year-old to buy?

Also, for those who say they are Christian, what did Jesus mean when he said "those who live by the sword will die by the sword", "... be as harmless as doves", "turn the other cheek", etc? Was he just joking?
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
metis said:
Also, for those who say they are Christian, what did Jesus mean when he said "those who live by the sword will die by the sword", "... be as harmless as doves", "turn the other cheek", etc? Was he just joking?
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He also told his disciples to arm themselves and that two swords was "enough."

The Bible is the Big Book of Multiple Choice. It's got something for everyone.
 
KW

KW

Well-Known Member
Orbit said:
That's actually a really bad analogy. Chevys aren't designed to kill multiple people as opposed to other cars.
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His point, I believe, is that AR-15s are no more likely to kill people than other high capacity rifles.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
KW said:
His point, I believe, is that AR-15s are no more likely to kill people than other high capacity rifles.
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They shouldn't be. Not based on the characteristics of the weapon, anyhow.

What makes the AR-15 different is that it's become something of a virtue signal for douchebags.

Nobody ran out to get a Ruger Mini-14 after the École Polytechnique massacre like people did for the AR-15 after Sandy Hook.

There's just something in the brand of the AR-15 that attracts violent fools.
 
W

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
Not actually true, but you aren't the first American who I've heard say this.

You don't own a business, do you?

Canada.
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I do own a business.
And you being in Canada explains a lot...of course it's also odd because your police were forced to arrest people for holding worship services...
 
W

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Debater Slayer said:
From your perspective. There is a reason freedom indices frequently rank multiple European countries above the U.S.

Personally, I consider a country like the Netherlands or Sweden much more free than the U.S.: inciting speech and propaganda (e.g., neo-Nazi propaganda) are banned in public, health emergencies don't tend to bankrupt people and enslave them to corporate exploitation, and higher education is generally more affordable than in the U.S., among other things.

That's without touching on the looming threat of theocracy that has been hovering above the U.S. for many years now, culminating with the recent wave of abortion bans and anti-LGBT legislation.

The idea that the U.S. is a special beacon of freedom is as outdated and American-centric as it is inaccurate and narrow in scope.
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So restrictions on speech are now considered freedom? Killing your off spring is freedom? No thanks.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Wildswanderer said:
I do own a business.
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Well, you know the weird, arbitrary patchwork of restrictive regulations that change completely when you go from one town or county to another?

Other countries don't have that. In other countries, cities and counties are restricted by their state/provincial government about what restrictions they can place on businesses or individuals.

I have American friends with businesses who tell me the stories of the local-level restrictive laws they have to deal with, and most of their issues just don't happen here.
 
W

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
Well, you know the weird, arbitrary patchwork of restrictive regulations that change completely when you go from one town or county to another?

Other countries don't have that. In other countries, cities and counties are restricted by their state/provincial government about what restrictions they can place on businesses or individuals.

I have American friends with businesses who tell me the stories of the local-level restrictive laws they have to deal with, and most of their issues just don't happen here.
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Having the feds run everything would surely lead to more restrictions and confusion. Anyone dealing with the IRS knows that.
 
W

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
metis said:
Well: Why the AR-15 Is So Lethal - The Atlantic

Why the AR-15 Is so Powerful and Deadly | The National Interest

It is so utterly pathetic that we have a segment in our society that worries far more about their guns than the innocent people getting killed in mass killings that includes children as we've seen. Some people seemingly have hit an all-time low here.
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An AR is no more deadly than any other rifle of the same caliber, obviously. I don't understand all the hype about them. We've had semiautomatics in civilian hands since what? WW2? They are the same basic design... and they aren't assault rifles BTW.
 
Mock Turtle

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Still not sure whether the poll should be solely about school shootings or about the number of deaths and injuries related to firearms. Surely it has to be about the latter?

The following is a tentative list of options - and perhaps allowing for several (five?) to be chosen:

Assault weapons ban
High-capacity magazine ban
Universal background checks
Gun violence restraining orders or red flag laws
Having students, faculty, and staff report potential threats
Altering/Reinterpreting the Constitution as to gun ownership
Drastically lowering levels of gun ownership to essentials
Work to reduce 'isolation' of those who might carry out attacks
Basically accept the status quo
Something else - and explain

The following seem to be less useful as options, given they have been assessed by some as having less or no impact:

Arming teachers, Funding CDC research into gun violence, Banning violent video games, 'Hardening schools', and Active shooter drills.

Any thoughts, and should the poll be in General Discussion or North American Politics?
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Wildswanderer said:
An AR is no more deadly than any other rifle of the same caliber, obviously. I don't understand all the hype about them. We've had semiautomatics in civilian hands since what? WW2? They are the same basic design... and they aren't assault rifles BTW.
Click to expand...
So, the articles I linked to you don't supposedly say what they actually do say. I'll go with them.
 
Guitar's Cry

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
Shaul said:
Here are some options for your poll:

1) Increase gun ownership rates (statistics show the gun homicide rate has decreased as gun ownership rate increases).
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Apparently not recently?:

"From 2019 to 2020, the overall age-adjusted firearm homicide rate increased substantially..."

Vital Signs: Changes in Firearm Homicide...

A study connecting gun deaths with ownership:

"We observed a robust correlation between higher levels of gun ownership and higher firearm homicide rates. Although we could not determine causation, we found that states with higher rates of gun ownership had disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides."

The Relationship Between Gun Ownership and Firearm Homicide Rates in the United States, 1981–2010
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Mock Turtle said:
Still not sure whether the poll should be solely about school shootings or about the number of deaths and injuries related to firearms. Surely it has to be about the latter?

The following is a tentative list of options - and perhaps allowing for several (five?) to be chosen:

Assault weapons ban
High-capacity magazine ban
Universal background checks
Gun violence restraining orders or red flag laws
Having students, faculty, and staff report potential threats
Altering/Reinterpreting the Constitution as to gun ownership
Drastically lowering levels of gun ownership to essentials
Work to reduce 'isolation' of those who might carry out attacks
Basically accept the status quo
Something else - and explain

The following seem to be less useful as options, given they have been assessed by some as having less or no impact:

Arming teachers, Funding CDC research into gun violence, Banning violent video games, 'Hardening schools', and Active shooter drills.

Any thoughts, and should the poll be in General Discussion or North American Politics?
Click to expand...
"Altering/Reinterpreting the Constitution as to gun ownership" isn't really a goal in and of itself. It's just that some gun control approaches would need a constitutional amendment to be implementable.
 
Mock Turtle

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
"Altering/Reinterpreting the Constitution as to gun ownership" isn't really a goal in and of itself. It's just that some gun control approaches would need a constitutional amendment to be implementable.
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Wouldn't reinterpreting it to reflect the types of weapons now available be one possibility, since the current situation probably wasn't envisaged when it was drawn up?
 
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