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What doesn't make sense to me about Christianity

nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
mikkel_the_dane said:
How you come to God in your ability might not be the same as to me. There are many roads walked and yours is not the only one.
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It's true, there are many roads; many walks.
Do any of those roads and walks need to be thoroughly adjusted?
In other words, do you think any of those roads are leading away from God, and need to be abandoned, if those walking along those roads, are to find the true God?
 
nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
Snow White said:
Maybe I should think of a way of summarizing the whole post of the OP. Um, how about....

"How do you take the teachings of Jesus and end up like Mike Pence, Rand Paul, McConnell or (insert name of fiery preacher)?"
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t2009.gif
You simple make a system - Christendom, which goes to bed with every Tom, Dick, and Harry, adulterates God's word, and promote lies... and there you go.
 
Messianic Israelite

Messianic Israelite

Active Member
Snow White said:
You've got the Old Testament and the Abrahamic God. You start to know the Abrahamic God as someone to fear. He wipes out most humans with a flood. Then you've got laws about clean and unclean animals, etc.

Then comes the New Testament. Jesus comes, and his message is different enough that to me, it must be a new covenant. I interpret certain verses as going against the Old Testament, or at least changing things. You can now eat unclean animals as far as I can tell. And at some point in history, the Sabbath seems to become Sunday instead of Saturday.

Make sense? Well, I'm not done yet...

So you've got all these Christians now who seem to more follow how they perceive the Old Testament stuff was. Following Jesus' teachings is actually quite liberal, perhaps even socialist. Which as far as I can tell, isn't really compatible with the evangelism movement. In fact, I think the evangelism movement went even further in the opposite direction.

Then you've got the prophecies. Supposedly in the last days, there will be anti-Christs, AN anti-Christ, false prophets, and "A" false prophet.

And if it so happens that modern Christianity as a whole isn't very much following Jesus, if it just so happens, how do we know they aren't doomed to be the false prophet or the anti-Christ of prophecy?

Or worse? What if modern-day Christianity is Babylon?

And taking out all of the religious doctrine and dogma of modern Christianity in such a hypothetical scenario, and just looking at the ideas of Jesus.... Jesus was mostly loving, in my opinion. A bit angry too. But getting down to it.... without all the scare-tactics and conversion attempts from modern Christianity.... does Jesus really expect everyone to follow him? Wouldn't love trump forcing someone to be obedient?

Note: I think I've touched on some sensitive subjects with these what-ifs. But they're just that - what-ifs.

Before you think that a situation like this isn't possible historically, of thinking you're the heroes but being the villains, well two recent wars would like a word with you. ;)

So as a recap, modern Christianity isn't necessarily the anti-Christ, the false prophet, or Babylon.

But what is?

And Christians may want to make sure even if they follow the Christian crowd, that they're on the right side, due to the message about lukewarm people and also people that say "Haven't I done many great things in your name?" and Jesus says "Depart. I know you not."

Then add to that that if I'm not mistaken, Revelation is a prophecy book, but doesn't it start by addressing the churches? *Grabs book to see*

All this assumes, of course, Jesus exists.

But it'd still create problems if he didn't. It'd then simply make modern Christians look like they're doing some strange parody, perhaps, of being Jewish. As far as I can tell.

So, can of worms. I think I may have opened a huge one.

Note: Hopefully I've gotten *most* of the fine details correct, but if not, heaven knows you'll kindly correct me and hopefully will also research my statements as well.
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Hi Snow White. Good evening. It is indeed puzzling that anyone reading the Hebrew Scriptures can come to the conclusion that Chr-stianity is a result of any logical progression from it. The New Testament is built upon the foundations of the Old Testament. The message throughout the Bible is the same: keep the commandments. Chr-stianity has unfortunately twisted the Bible message to say that the Law has been done away with and yet they are a number of scriptures in the New Testament which show this not to be the case. Yahshua the Messiah in Matthew 5:17-20, right at the beginning of his ministry, set the record straight by explaining he hadn't come to remove one yothe or one title from the law, that he didn't come to abolish the Law. What about the Law for example against bestiality, which is found in the Hebrew Scriptures. If the Law was done away with, then Laws such as this could be brushed aside inviting the recipe for anarchy and confusion in the world, which is exactly what Chr-stianity has done.

Yahshua my Savior set the example. He proved that the Law can be kept perfectly and we are to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21). You asked about Chr-stianity being a Babylon. Babylon means confusion and yes, Chr-stianity is in confusion and so are all those who reject Yahweh's Law. I am amazed, I really am. How does a Chr-stian go from reading any book in the Hebrew Scriptures, whether the Proverbs, or Deuteronomy, where the admonishment is always to keep the commandments, to then believing that the New Testament is somehow opposing of the Laws of Yahweh?

Chr-stians to the most part have rejected the Sacred Name(s) and the Law. You mentioned the Sabbath.The Sabbath is still the Saturday. Why do so many Chr-stians keep a semblance of a Sabbath on the Sunday? There is no Biblical support for this. I shake my head with the confusion that I find even here on RF regarding the Trinity, which is completely unbiblical, which if people using the Sacred Names, they would have a much better understanding of what the Bible says. Chr-stians have spoken to me claiming the Name which we use for the Most High and His Son is a mute point, but this is their opinion. The Bible clearly tells us in scriptures like Acts 4:12 that Names contain within them the power of salvation.

What did Yahshua say in Matthew 7: "22 Many will say to me in that day, Master, Master, did we not prophesy by your name, and by your name cast out demons, and by your name do many mighty works? 23 And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work lawlessness." Yet Chr-stians still claim that they are kingdom bound though they do lawlessness / iniquity. They break Yahweh's Laws with impunity.

Acts 17:30 says "The times of ignorance therefore Elohim overlooked; but now he commands men that they should all everywhere repent". To a thinking person, it is clear that somewhere along the line Chr-stianity has gone way off track. Claiming the Law has been done away with isn't only wrong, and dangerous, physically, emotionally and spiritually, but also the result of many evils in society which we are seeing in this day and age and it is with this wrong spirit that will embody the anti-Messiah in the end of the age.
 
P

pearl

Well-Known Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
And yes, the God of the Tanakh is about right behavior. The Torah contains 613 laws for the children of Israel to keep. But it can all be summed up as Rabbi Hillel once said, "What is hateful to you, don't do to others. That is the whole Torah. All the rest is commentary. Now go study the commentary." :)
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And another Jew was Hillel’s younger contemporary, Jesus of Nazareth, who expressed this point in a slightly different way: “In everything, do to others as you would have them do to you; for this is the law and the prophets.”
The Golden Rule implies a social obligation to provide help to those who need it. On that Hillel and Jesus, and the weight of Jewish tradition, are in wholehearted agreement.
In practical effect the two statements are virtually identical. After all, inaction can be as “hateful” as action. If I am starving and my neighbor passes by without offering me something to eat, or if I am homeless and my neighbor does not help me find shelter, that would be hateful to me. The Golden Rule implies a social obligation to provide help to those who need it.
 
F

Fallen Prophet

Well-Known Member
Snow White said:
You've got the Old Testament and the Abrahamic God. You start to know the Abrahamic God as someone to fear. He wipes out most humans with a flood. Then you've got laws about clean and unclean animals, etc.

Then comes the New Testament. Jesus comes, and his message is different enough that to me, it must be a new covenant. I interpret certain verses as going against the Old Testament, or at least changing things. You can now eat unclean animals as far as I can tell. And at some point in history, the Sabbath seems to become Sunday instead of Saturday.

Make sense? Well, I'm not done yet...

So you've got all these Christians now who seem to more follow how they perceive the Old Testament stuff was. Following Jesus' teachings is actually quite liberal, perhaps even socialist. Which as far as I can tell, isn't really compatible with the evangelism movement. In fact, I think the evangelism movement went even further in the opposite direction.

Then you've got the prophecies. Supposedly in the last days, there will be anti-Christs, AN anti-Christ, false prophets, and "A" false prophet.

And if it so happens that modern Christianity as a whole isn't very much following Jesus, if it just so happens, how do we know they aren't doomed to be the false prophet or the anti-Christ of prophecy?

Or worse? What if modern-day Christianity is Babylon?

And taking out all of the religious doctrine and dogma of modern Christianity in such a hypothetical scenario, and just looking at the ideas of Jesus.... Jesus was mostly loving, in my opinion. A bit angry too. But getting down to it.... without all the scare-tactics and conversion attempts from modern Christianity.... does Jesus really expect everyone to follow him? Wouldn't love trump forcing someone to be obedient?

Note: I think I've touched on some sensitive subjects with these what-ifs. But they're just that - what-ifs.

Before you think that a situation like this isn't possible historically, of thinking you're the heroes but being the villains, well two recent wars would like a word with you. ;)

So as a recap, modern Christianity isn't necessarily the anti-Christ, the false prophet, or Babylon.

But what is?

And Christians may want to make sure even if they follow the Christian crowd, that they're on the right side, due to the message about lukewarm people and also people that say "Haven't I done many great things in your name?" and Jesus says "Depart. I know you not."

Then add to that that if I'm not mistaken, Revelation is a prophecy book, but doesn't it start by addressing the churches? *Grabs book to see*

All this assumes, of course, Jesus exists.

But it'd still create problems if he didn't. It'd then simply make modern Christians look like they're doing some strange parody, perhaps, of being Jewish. As far as I can tell.

So, can of worms. I think I may have opened a huge one.

Note: Hopefully I've gotten *most* of the fine details correct, but if not, heaven knows you'll kindly correct me and hopefully will also research my statements as well.
Click to expand...
Could you condense this into a couple direct questions?
 
Kelly of the Phoenix

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Messianic Israelite said:
He proved that the Law can be kept perfectly and we are to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21).
Click to expand...
In what Bible does Jesus obey the commandments perfectly? I know it’s a claim in the Bible, but he breaks the sabbath, dishonors his family, vandalizes things and animals that don’t belong to him, straight up assaults people with a weapon, is racist to gentiles, breaks his own rules about public prayer and calling people fools.
 
W

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Snow White said:
And if it so happens that modern Christianity as a whole isn't very much following Jesus, if it just so happens, how do we know they aren't doomed to be the false prophet or the anti-Christ of prophecy?
Click to expand...
I think that's a very broad brush... there's certainly lots of Christians who are trying to follow Jesus.
The trouble is that some people on the outside get the impression that means always being nicey nice, but that wasn't Jesus at all. He was good but not always nice .. he called it like he saw it, and sometimes sounded pretty harsh.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Snow White said:
You've got the Old Testament and the Abrahamic God. You start to know the Abrahamic God as someone to fear. He wipes out most humans with a flood. Then you've got laws about clean and unclean animals, etc.

Then comes the New Testament. Jesus comes, and his message is different enough that to me, it must be a new covenant. I interpret certain verses as going against the Old Testament, or at least changing things. You can now eat unclean animals as far as I can tell. And at some point in history, the Sabbath seems to become Sunday instead of Saturday.

Make sense? Well, I'm not done yet...

So you've got all these Christians now who seem to more follow how they perceive the Old Testament stuff was. Following Jesus' teachings is actually quite liberal, perhaps even socialist. Which as far as I can tell, isn't really compatible with the evangelism movement. In fact, I think the evangelism movement went even further in the opposite direction.

Then you've got the prophecies. Supposedly in the last days, there will be anti-Christs, AN anti-Christ, false prophets, and "A" false prophet.

And if it so happens that modern Christianity as a whole isn't very much following Jesus, if it just so happens, how do we know they aren't doomed to be the false prophet or the anti-Christ of prophecy?

Or worse? What if modern-day Christianity is Babylon?

And taking out all of the religious doctrine and dogma of modern Christianity in such a hypothetical scenario, and just looking at the ideas of Jesus.... Jesus was mostly loving, in my opinion. A bit angry too. But getting down to it.... without all the scare-tactics and conversion attempts from modern Christianity.... does Jesus really expect everyone to follow him? Wouldn't love trump forcing someone to be obedient?

Note: I think I've touched on some sensitive subjects with these what-ifs. But they're just that - what-ifs.

Before you think that a situation like this isn't possible historically, of thinking you're the heroes but being the villains, well two recent wars would like a word with you. ;)

So as a recap, modern Christianity isn't necessarily the anti-Christ, the false prophet, or Babylon.

But what is?

And Christians may want to make sure even if they follow the Christian crowd, that they're on the right side, due to the message about lukewarm people and also people that say "Haven't I done many great things in your name?" and Jesus says "Depart. I know you not."

Then add to that that if I'm not mistaken, Revelation is a prophecy book, but doesn't it start by addressing the churches? *Grabs book to see*

All this assumes, of course, Jesus exists.

But it'd still create problems if he didn't. It'd then simply make modern Christians look like they're doing some strange parody, perhaps, of being Jewish. As far as I can tell.

So, can of worms. I think I may have opened a huge one.

Note: Hopefully I've gotten *most* of the fine details correct, but if not, heaven knows you'll kindly correct me and hopefully will also research my statements as well.
Click to expand...

So basically I believe you ae saying that you don't know if Jesus existed so Christians must be nuts.

However I believe Jesus does exist so Christians are on the right path.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Kelly of the Phoenix said:
In what Bible does Jesus obey the commandments perfectly? I know it’s a claim in the Bible, but he breaks the sabbath, dishonors his family, vandalizes things and animals that don’t belong to him, straight up assaults people with a weapon, is racist to gentiles, breaks his own rules about public prayer and calling people fools.
Click to expand...

I believe there is only one Bible. There are just people who don't like what it says very much.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Snow White said:
I don't think I said that.
Click to expand...
"All this assumes, of course, Jesus exists" "
What doesn't make sense to me about Christianity"

I believe connecting the two concepts may be an embellishment.

The thing is this that I believe you have not addressed what Christianity is all about so since you may not know that, what you do know may not make sense.
 
PoetPhilosopher

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
Muffled said:
"All this assumes, of course, Jesus exists" "
What doesn't make sense to me about Christianity"

I believe connecting the two concepts may be an embellishment.

The thing is this that I believe you have not addressed what Christianity is all about so since you may not know that, what you do know may not make sense.
Click to expand...

I see.
 
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