Are women naturally subservient to males?

It seems to me that even in a climate of sexual equality women and men tend to put themselves into the roles of dominant and subservient. Even between two intelligent adults.

Kcnorwood said:

It seems to me that even in a climate of sexual equality women and men tend to put themselves into the roles of dominant and subservient. Even between two intelligent adults.

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I tend to see the relationship of male/female "roles" when the man is regarded as the head of the family that the woman is the neck...........and she can turn the head toward whatever she wants him to look at.




Sure, there's the ol' saying that the man should "wear the pants in the family." But, you know, there's also the ol' saying that "If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy." Basically, since both me and my husband were brought up in Christian families and we both are familiar with Biblical passages like in Ephesians, we understand the "submission" teachings to be with each other. I submit to him to allow him to take charge of most things, while he submits to me that I need to be fulfilled first before him.




We've also found that as I've grown more into my Buddhist faith that we have found ourselves to act more like Eastern couples as we get older. I'm in near-complete charge of our money and finances until it comes to our disposable income, then he decides how much I get with my shopping budget for myself. We've received looks from other families that it seems like I have an "allowance", but how many of them know that he sees to it that I spend more on myself than he does himself?




He's made it abunduntly clear that the only thing he really wants is to make me happy. If that's his goal in our marriage, why would I be so silly to take that kind of initiative away from him? With that in mind, it's erroneous to assume that I'm subservient to him. In most ways, he makes me feel like a goddess.



Peace,
Mystic

A wise woman can rule the world and if her wisdom can help her keep her mouth shut no one will ever know.

I think mystic summed it up well. In any cohesive unit for it to work properly and succesfully, there needs to be a leader and someone to assist the leader to make different decisions and so forth. Men simply have that leadership quality, but is not a knock on th eintelligence of women. Without us, men cannot maintain or acquire balance in their lives and vice verse because we each complete each other. Gender roles are natural and are going to be there no matter how we attempt to erase them on the grounds that they are unfair. Each role is just as important as the other one, and women shouldn't think they are less important simply becasue they take on a different type of role to make families, societies, and communities work successfully. Being an equal adult doesn't always mean one must be combative or competetive all the time. If I offer a certain amount of submission to my husband he becomes very soft towards me. I can get him to listen to me and take me seriously when I'm not always in his face challenging his every move just because I can.

It is important to realize that equality between men and women does not lie in being exactly the same as each other. It is our differences that make us whole.

Also to add to it the word submission has such negative connotations. I have no problem with the term when applied correctly. Submission is an art form. We all submit to something at some point and time. In any relationship there is a certain amount of give and take and compromise. If a woman never gave in to any suggestions or dare I say demands of her husband on the grounds that she is an adult and he can't tell her what to do, how long can it last? I think it boils down to a bit too much pride to believe that we should never be submissive to anyone or anything. Submission is not a weakness provided one submits to the right things in the right way.

Kcnorwood said:

It seems to me that even in a climate of sexual equality women and men tend to put themselves into the roles of dominant and subservient. Even between two intelligent adults.

Click to expand...

I think that this observation is spoiled by the fact that sexual equality, if it in fact does exist, is a very new social concept. Males and females haven't been treated as social equals for very long, and while some Stoics taught that women and men were equal, sexual equality has only developed in the past 10 years or so.

Therefore, I'd say that sexual subversion among people who assent to sexual equality is a residual effect of sexual repression.

It is important to realize that equality between men and women does not lie in being exactly the same as each other. It is our differences that make us whole.

Click to expand...

Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm not married yet, but already I have noticed this too. Men are natural leaders, but women are also a significant part of that because they are the brains beside the men. Back then, anyways.

Nowadays, I, personally, say that if you can do it, I can do it better! Partly because I'm probably stubborn, but I think women are just as strong minded as men. Men are just physically stronger, therefore, that naturally puts the woman second in command. Currently though, there is no need for that considering the technology we have now. It's not just all working in the fields all day. Men and women are both in the office. Well, that's my scoop on that. :jiggy:

I don't think it is that clear cut in a healthy relationship. If the wife has a strong grasp of finances, let her handle the bulk of the budgeting and retirement planning. If the husband is gifted in the kitchen, by all means let him cook. People have this ridiculous notion that traditional female roles are submissive by nature and hang all sorts of negative connotations on them while traditional male roles are dominant by nature and elate them as positive. It's sexism in disguise that men and women both perpetrate. There is nothing inherently submissive about baking a cake. There is nothing inherently dominant about taking out the trash. A healthy relationship comes down to love, mutual respect and reciprocity. Roles shouldn't be determined by gender, but by who is the most capable, interested and able to take care of them for the good of the couple (and family) and distributed in a balanced way. If you buy into the materialistic nonsense that you are as good as the things you own and the size of your paycheck, then it is easy to see how the person who handles the bulk of the domestic and unpayed work is demeaned in our society. If you get beyond simply comparing paychecks and actually appreciate other for all the work put forth in a healthy relationship (and family), then it is easy to see how both parties are equal and very necessary.

I think there's a point where sometimes my wife leads & then i do it's a 50/50 split you could call it. My wife is just like me big time we both have to have our way & it's untill the other that something is proved wrong to let the subject go.

Kcnorwood said:

It seems to me that even in a climate of sexual equality women and men tend to put themselves into the roles of dominant and subservient. Even between two intelligent adults.

Click to expand...

It's usually not so simple as one person being dominant and the other subservient, IMHO. At least it's not unless some ideology -- often religious -- intervenes to prompt people to make it that simple.

In my experience, many women want the man to take the lead --- just so long as he's leading them exactly where they want to go anyway. It's much like Kennedy said of leadership: "Being a leader is the art of figuring out where people are going, taking a shortcut, and coming out ahead of them."

I think it's largely an adolescent fantasy that effective leaders dictate to people what they are going to do. The most effective leaders I've known spend considerable time and effort persuading people, rather than dictating to them. And persuasion is largely the art of showing someone how it is in their own interests to do something.

As for men and women being equal when it comes to leadership, I have known women who were strong leaders and I have known men who were strong leaders -- only their leadership styles varied according to their sex, not their effectiveness in getting things done.

Whew I used to supervise people, I had very loyal associates who would do almost anything for me. But that's because I spent considerable time and energy showing them how doing what had to be done me was in their own best interests and would make them happy. I almost never asked anyone in the years I supervised people to do something that was not actually beneficial to them. The pay off for me was that my groups routinely set performance records that crushed the competition. The happiest marriages I've seen work much the same way: The partners spend more time persuading each other of what to do, than they spend telling each other what to do.

I've listened to y'alls different philosophies and everthang but that didn't count when my momma said something, That was the original get ur done,

love said:

I've listened to y'alls different philosophies and everthang but that didn't count when my momma said something, That was the original get ur done,

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As a general rule, it's not an effective policy to treat adults as children -- at least, not the sort of adults you either want to hire or marry. Of course, if you have an immature adult --- such as a bimbo talk show host --- you might be forced to treat him or her like a child.

are women naturally subserviant to males?

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I'm not.

Honestly you cant be a good realationship and truely be subserviant. You have to be equals.
Often in traditional cultures the man "rules" in the outside world and the woman "rules" in the household and finds more subtle ways of getting the men to do what they want. In that way ballance was maintained in the relationship.

wa:do