If someone wins a debate, it means he is right?

If someone wins in debates, does it mean his opinion is the right one?

Not always, and probably not most of the time.

If two people wrestle, and one wins, does it mean he is right? His religion or belief or opinion is the right one, and the one who looses has the wrong belief?
Debate is just like wrestling. You can learn techniques how to win in wrestling.
Personally, if I feel a discussion turns to wrestling, It is time to stop.
Well, unless someone has too much time and energy, what's the point of wasting time and energy just to win someone in a debate?

What's your take?

InvestigateTruth said:

If someone wins in debates, does it mean his opinion is the right one?

Not always, and probably not most of the time.

If two people wrestle, and one wins, does it mean he is right? His religion or belief or opinion is the right one, and the one who looses has the wrong belief?
Debate is just like wrestling. You can learn techniques how to win in wrestling.
Personally, if I feel a discussion turns to wrestling, It is time to stop.
Well, unless someone has too much time and energy, what's the point of wasting time and energy just to win someone in a debate?

What's your take?

Click to expand...

Well, as far as I can tell all variants of right are non-objective, so no, he is not right and the loser is not wrong. That is a social convention.

It means they're a better debater.

InvestigateTruth said:

If someone wins in debates, does it mean his opinion is the right one?

Not always, and probably not most of the time.

If two people wrestle, and one wins, does it mean he is right? His religion or belief or opinion is the right one, and the one who looses has the wrong belief?
Debate is just like wrestling. You can learn techniques how to win in wrestling.
Personally, if I feel a discussion turns to wrestling, It is time to stop.
Well, unless someone has too much time and energy, what's the point of wasting time and energy just to win someone in a debate?

What's your take?

Click to expand...

Not always.
I agree with you. If a discussion turns to wrestling, it's time to stop. I refuse to spend my time and energy like that. If others think I "lost", be it. I can live with that.

InvestigateTruth said:

If someone wins in debates, does it mean his opinion is the right one?

Not always, and probably not most of the time.

If two people wrestle, and one wins, does it mean he is right? His religion or belief or opinion is the right one, and the one who looses has the wrong belief?
Debate is just like wrestling. You can learn techniques how to win in wrestling.
Personally, if I feel a discussion turns to wrestling, It is time to stop.
Well, unless someone has too much time and energy, what's the point of wasting time and energy just to win someone in a debate?

What's your take?

Click to expand...

If someone wins at wrestling it means he was better at wrestling than the other guy. It doesn't make him right, nor does it make him the best wrestler.
Same goes for debates.
If someone wins debates consistently, it makes him a good debater.
If one side of a topic is constantly, successfully debated by different people, there's a good chance that side is right.

Vee said:

Not always.
I agree with you. If a discussion turns to wrestling, it's time to stop. I refuse to spend my time and energy like that. If others think I "lost", be it. I can live with that.

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I have never lost anything in a debate, I don't debate for money. If I "lose" the debate, I have learned something, so I won. If I "win", someone else learned something or at least has fodder for thought.
I debate to teach and to learn, about the subject and how to present my point.

InvestigateTruth said:

If someone wins in debates, does it mean his opinion is the right one?

Not always, and probably not most of the time.

If two people wrestle, and one wins, does it mean he is right? His religion or belief or opinion is the right one, and the one who looses has the wrong belief?
Debate is just like wrestling. You can learn techniques how to win in wrestling.
Personally, if I feel a discussion turns to wrestling, It is time to stop.
Well, unless someone has too much time and energy, what's the point of wasting time and energy just to win someone in a debate?

What's your take?

Click to expand...

Well look at a debate with creationists. Their view is demonstrably false. They advance their view due to ideological influence, not science and fact. So arguably they have lost any debate regardless of the arguments presented. Arguing against evolution is a lost cause. The take away is that some folks debate their views without an interest in being right or wrong, nor in what is demonstrably true, nor being objective. These debates are essentially explaining how a person's ideology is highly flawed and in error. Creationists consistently fail their claims and arguments. It is an exercise of futility, but fun for some.

Debating opinions like foreign policy is more classic debate, and this is how opponents can argue for why their approach is better. For example we can debate why the USA should aid Ukraine, and the opponent will argue how the war between Russia and Ukraine is none of our business. So there would be arguments on both sides that have some degree of validity, but one has a more complex and broad advantage in the long run of foreign relations.

Debate should ideally be objective, factual, and account for consequences.

SalixIncendium said:

It means they're a better debater.

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I disagree because a good debater arguing for creationism may show good debating ability, it doesn't mean he's demonstrated his views are valid and true. I have seen people arguing for false claims make some clever points against those who defer to science in a sloppy way. That is just like watching an adult play chess with a 5 year old. The adult may not be a good chess player and just happens to be better than a child.

These group debates tend to weed out the competent and informed from the rest.

The bad faith by some folks is easily recognized when they repeat disinformation, like people who consume poor quality media. They don't understand their sources are biased and invalid.

InvestigateTruth said:

If someone wins in debates, does it mean his opinion is the right one?

Not always, and probably not most of the time.

If two people wrestle, and one wins, does it mean he is right? His religion or belief or opinion is the right one, and the one who looses has the wrong belief?
Debate is just like wrestling. You can learn techniques how to win in wrestling.
Personally, if I feel a discussion turns to wrestling, It is time to stop.
Well, unless someone has too much time and energy, what's the point of wasting time and energy just to win someone in a debate?

What's your take?

Click to expand...

No it may only means the "winner" had the last word

InvestigateTruth said:

If someone wins in debates, does it mean his opinion is the right one?

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No, that's not a logical deduction. However, all else being equal, it's easier to convince an impartial jury that you won the debate if you argued persuasively on the right side.

InvestigateTruth said:

Well, unless someone has too much time and energy, what's the point of wasting time and energy just to win someone in a debate?

What's your take?

Click to expand...

No point for Spiritual seekers

Ego loves to be bigger/better than others

IF you know the truth THEN why debate?
IF you don't know truth THEN why debate?

BUT

For non Spiritual matters, it might be useful

mikkel_the_dane said:

Well, as far as I can tell all variants of right are non-objective, so no, he is not right and the loser is not wrong. That is a social convention.

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I think I'm going to go with this.

Winning a debate can happen due to having the better facts, or simply due to being the better arguer, I guess. If it's the latter, don't change your beliefs if you lose. If it's the former, hard to say what to do, just take some time to think about it, but without feeling obligated to change anything, since it's not always necessary to, and rarely is.

InvestigateTruth said:

If someone wins in debates, does it mean his opinion is the right one?

Not always, and probably not most of the time.

If two people wrestle, and one wins, does it mean he is right? His religion or belief or opinion is the right one, and the one who looses has the wrong belief?
Debate is just like wrestling. You can learn techniques how to win in wrestling.
Personally, if I feel a discussion turns to wrestling, It is time to stop.
Well, unless someone has too much time and energy, what's the point of wasting time and energy just to win someone in a debate?

What's your take?

Click to expand...

Not necessarily right, just more convincing.
A debate is just pageantry at the end of the day. With known techniques and rhetoric employed in a way that can convince people of a certain position.
I think playing Devil’s Advocate can be useful in strengthening or examining one’s beliefs and stances. (Hopefully I’ve gotten better at that, but I doubt it.)
And I’ll debate here, moreso out of boredom than anything else.

But in truth, experts (regardless of the field) are not always capable of parsing actual knowledge to layman. It’s a specific skill taught to folks. Bill Nye or Neil Degrass Tyson (sp?) come to mind. They have training or at least come with a background in media literacy. They can speak to folks easily and teach in an engaging manner. They understand the showmanship, so to speak. So they are able to control the discussion a bit more effectively than perhaps a random Biochemist might.

A medical expert can absolutely lose a debate in medicine to someone less qualified to speak on such matters.
Does that render the expert wrong?

InvestigateTruth said:

If someone wins in debates, does it mean his opinion is the right one?

Not always, and probably not most of the time.

If two people wrestle, and one wins, does it mean he is right? His religion or belief or opinion is the right one, and the one who looses has the wrong belief?
Debate is just like wrestling. You can learn techniques how to win in wrestling.
Personally, if I feel a discussion turns to wrestling, It is time to stop.
Well, unless someone has too much time and energy, what's the point of wasting time and energy just to win someone in a debate?

What's your take?

Click to expand...

The ones who utilize ad hominems are the ones who lost the debate.

Just checking back with this thread to see if I won the debate...

Twilight Hue said:

The ones who utilize ad hominems are the ones who lost the debate.

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You are aware if you study ad hominems, that there are 2 kinds and off course you know both, right?

SalixIncendium said:

Just checking back with this thread to see if I won the debate...

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Sorry, the only way to win a debate is posting but not checking back.

mikkel_the_dane said:

You are aware if you study ad hominems, that there are 2 kinds and off course you know both, right?

Click to expand...

No. You lose the debate.

Twilight Hue said:

No. You lose the debate.

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Good. You just confirmed my understanding of your understanding. That is lucky, because if you had answered yes, I would have lost my faith in how I understand the world.