I need Jehovah's Witnesses feed back.Because I always think I am interpreting it right.But am wrong.

nPeace · May 12, 2022

Brian2 said:
1Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Which Spirit were they baptised into the one body with? A Christian has the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ in them. Are they one Spirit or two?

Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

You love feeling like Jesus.

Yes the Spirit was given after Jesus was resurrected.
Is the baptism of Matthew 28:19 different from the one in which a Christian is given the Spirit of God? If so, why?

God's Spirit can influence lives in many ways and an atheist can have his life influenced by God's Spirit. But is the Great Crowd led by the Spirit as in:
Romans 8:5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you.
Romans 8:14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
And really being a Christian included living like a Christian and following the Lord, or we will probably be rejected by Him, so works are very important for not just JWs. But of course the salvation is through faith and love and the works of love is that faith at work. It is not the works that save us or we would be earning our own salvation, which we cannot do.

How do you kill the deeds of the flesh without the Spirit of God in you and giving you strength to do that and guiding you?

A possibility is that the 144000 is a totally symbolic number. 12x12x1000. Looks pretty symbolic of all Christians.
Certainly there is nothing to definitely connect the "little flock" of the gospels with the 144000 except the say so of your teachers.
A large part of the teachings of the JWs is based on very iffy interpretation of prophecy and even to the extent that it changes the gospel message for the great crowd on the say so of a hand full of men.

Because we believe all Christians are baptised into Christ and receive the Spirit and are part of the New Covenant and are in the Kingdom of God as citizens of that Kingdom, we see no problem with going to heaven. But of course the scriptures tell us that the New Jerusalem is coming down to earth and God and the Lamb will be in it. It is like heaven is going to be on earth. The OT tells us that God has chosen Jerusalem/Zion to live in forever. I don't know what the 144000 are going to do in heaven alone.
The way it looks to me is that New Jerusalem is going to be where all Christians call home and the rest of the New Earth is going to be where the nations call home.

What you believe is irrelevant, isn it.
If heaven is going to be on earth, then what is the purpose of these scriptures? Matthew 6:10; Ephesians 1:10; 2 Corinthians 5:1; John 14:3

I'm sure you have some interpretation that fits your belief, but those belief are false - contrary to scripture... and I am not getting into that twister again.
Twisters literally takes everything out of you.

Brian2 · May 12, 2022

nPeace said:
What you believe is irrelevant, isn it.
If heaven is going to be on earth, then what is the purpose of these scriptures? Matthew 6:10; Ephesians 1:10; 2 Corinthians 5:1; John 14:3

I'm sure you have some interpretation that fits your belief, but those belief are false - contrary to scripture... and I am not getting into that twister again.
Twisters literally takes everything out of you.

Those scriptures have nothing to do with the heavenly Jerusalem coming down to earth, which is said in Revelation to happen. So I don't need to have an interpretation for those scriptures.
That is the same with any JW scriptures that you say would support the existence of the 144000 only being in the Kingdom of God and being in the New Covenant and being in the Body of Christ and being born again with the Spirit of God etc. Those scriptures do not say that.
So when you say something is contrary to scriptures it might just mean that it is contrary to what the Governing Body tells you about the scriptures in question.

Clara Tea · May 13, 2022

Frank Goad said:
If there are 144,000 spirit anointed people who have a heavenly hope, and a great crowd of people who have another hope of everlasting life on paradise earth, why does Paul say that there is only ONE hope (Eph 4:4), instead of two?

I got this from here: Interactive Bible Home Page www.bible.ca

Stumper questions Jehovah's Witnesses do not like to be asked!

It is question number 40.

I got this from the King James version of the bible.

Opinion of Clara Tea:

https://www.jewishagency.org/jewish-population-5782/

There are 15,200,000 Jews in the world (according to the website, above).

According to the New Testament bible,144,000 Jews will go to heaven. This consists of 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel.

144,000 seems like a small number, considering that there are about 15.2 million Jews in the world. So why don't almost all of them go to heaven? They are a very devout people.

I think that you have to consider God's warning (in Revelation, the the New Testament bible) not to attack Iraq, or face God's wrath and the fact that God will put an end to the world and kill everyone on the planet if Iraq is attacked....which has already happened. Revelation 15 says that 7 mutations of covid will occur (it didn't mention covid by name, but we can now fill in the details now that the prophecies have started). One of my psychic friends (who was chosen by God to be His Prophet) told me (what other Prophets of God told me) that plagues and other hardships are coming, and they will be horrible. She was right about covid. But covid is just the beginning. The thing that will kill most of the people in the world is Armaggeddon. It is supposedly a war that will be fought between the Gog and Magog. Presumably (according to psychic Edgar Cayce) the countries of Russia and China will merge and defeat the world. Apparently they are all right....this is what appears to be happening as we speak.

So, why are 144,000 Jews going to go to heaven instead of the current population of 15.2 million? Because many will be killed off by God's wrath that we attacked Iraq (just as Revelation says, and just as the Prophets of God said in modern times). No one seems to listen to God's prophets.

Non-Jews (Christians) will also be able to go to heaven, according to the New Testament.

Vatican Reaffirms That Jews Can Go to Heaven

According to the website above:

James Martin, a Jesuit priest and editor-at-large of America Magazine, said that Jews don't have to convert to Christianity (or accept Christ) to get into heaven.

The Vatican (pope) affirmed that Jews can get into heaven.

Catholics Should Not Try To Convert Jews, Vatican Commission Says

According to the website above: "Catholics shouldn't try to convert Jews, a Vatican commission says."

Clara Tea · May 13, 2022

Brian2 said:
If there is one Spirit, why do JWs say there is the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ, 2 Spirits?

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Luke 3:16-17 He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand, to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.’ – Luke 3:15-17

Is the Great Crown baptised with the Spirit as John the Baptist said?
Is the Great Crowd led by the Spirit and so gain the fruits of the Spirit?

OPINION OF CLARA TEA:

I might be wrong, Brian, but it is my opinion that all of the souls that God puts in humans came from Him, and that God is made of trillions of individual souls. I think that God is purifying Himself by putting souls in humans and giving them free will (assuming that the goodness or badness of souls will direct them to heaven or hell in the afterlife). Thus, good souls return to heaven and rejoin God.

I believe, therefore, that we all have a bit of God in us.

Apparently, Jesus also believed that He (Jesus) had a bit (or perhaps a lot) of God in Him (Jesus). Since Jesus was extraordinarily powerful (healing, talking to God, etc.), maybe Jesus had more than one soul?

God, therefore, is synonymous with heaven (except that heaven is surrounded by a vortex of psychic energy to keep out intruders. Hell, too, has a similar, but reverse vortex, but it is designed to keep souls in (which is why it feels hot and uncomfortable, like the prison that it is).

Clara Tea · May 13, 2022

nPeace said:
What you believe is irrelevant, isn it.
If heaven is going to be on earth, then what is the purpose of these scriptures? Matthew 6:10; Ephesians 1:10; 2 Corinthians 5:1; John 14:3

I'm sure you have some interpretation that fits your belief, but those belief are false - contrary to scripture... and I am not getting into that twister again.
Twisters literally takes everything out of you.

Don't worry, the famous prophet of God, Jeb Bush (brother and son of presidents) said that a twister (or hurricane) would not strike Florida while he was governor. And, besides, it only killed the evil ones (not the ones who lived in expensive brick houses and had big bank accounts), according to Jeb. That was an awful twister, intensified by Global Warming (which the Religious Right says is hoax).

Brian2 · May 13, 2022

Clara Tea said:
OPINION OF CLARA TEA:

I might be wrong, Brian, but it is my opinion that all of the souls that God puts in humans came from Him, and that God is made of trillions of individual souls. I think that God is purifying Himself by putting souls in humans and giving them free will (assuming that the goodness or badness of souls will direct them to heaven or hell in the afterlife). Thus, good souls return to heaven and rejoin God.

I believe, therefore, that we all have a bit of God in us.

Apparently, Jesus also believed that He (Jesus) had a bit (or perhaps a lot) of God in Him (Jesus). Since Jesus was extraordinarily powerful (healing, talking to God, etc.), maybe Jesus had more than one soul?

God, therefore, is synonymous with heaven (except that heaven is surrounded by a vortex of psychic energy to keep out intruders. Hell, too, has a similar, but reverse vortex, but it is designed to keep souls in (which is why it feels hot and uncomfortable, like the prison that it is).

You have some interesting ideas, which might be wrong, as you say. Did you get all that from your own head?

Brian2 · May 13, 2022

nPeace said:
What you believe is irrelevant, isn it.
If heaven is going to be on earth, then what is the purpose of these scriptures? Matthew 6:10; Ephesians 1:10; 2 Corinthians 5:1; John 14:3

I'm sure you have some interpretation that fits your belief, but those belief are false - contrary to scripture... and I am not getting into that twister again.
Twisters literally takes everything out of you.

It does appear to be Twisters but really the twisting has already happened and it is unravelling the tangle, which of course appears to be what it should be to those who have accepted it and view it as normal.
It is a very tight know but the good news is that once one strand is disentangled the whole knot comes apart more easily.

cataway · May 13, 2022

Brian2 said:
1Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Which Spirit were they baptised into the one body with? A Christian has the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ in them. Are they one Spirit or two?

Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

You love feeling like Jesus.

Yes the Spirit was given after Jesus was resurrected.
Is the baptism of Matthew 28:19 different from the one in which a Christian is given the Spirit of God? If so, why?

God's Spirit can influence lives in many ways and an atheist can have his life influenced by God's Spirit. But is the Great Crowd led by the Spirit as in:
Romans 8:5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you.
Romans 8:14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
And really being a Christian included living like a Christian and following the Lord, or we will probably be rejected by Him, so works are very important for not just JWs. But of course the salvation is through faith and love and the works of love is that faith at work. It is not the works that save us or we would be earning our own salvation, which we cannot do.

How do you kill the deeds of the flesh without the Spirit of God in you and giving you strength to do that and guiding you?

A possibility is that the 144000 is a totally symbolic number. 12x12x1000. Looks pretty symbolic of all Christians.
Certainly there is nothing to definitely connect the "little flock" of the gospels with the 144000 except the say so of your teachers.
A large part of the teachings of the JWs is based on very iffy interpretation of prophecy and even to the extent that it changes the gospel message for the great crowd on the say so of a hand full of men.

Because we believe all Christians are baptised into Christ and receive the Spirit and are part of the New Covenant and are in the Kingdom of God as citizens of that Kingdom, we see no problem with going to heaven. But of course the scriptures tell us that the New Jerusalem is coming down to earth and God and the Lamb will be in it. It is like heaven is going to be on earth. The OT tells us that God has chosen Jerusalem/Zion to live in forever. I don't know what the 144000 are going to do in heaven alone.
The way it looks to me is that New Jerusalem is going to be where all Christians call home and the rest of the New Earth is going to be where the nations call home.

mat 13 :34
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her brood of chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. 35 Look! Your house is abandoned to you. I tell you, you will by no means see me until you say: ‘Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name!’”

Brian2 · May 13, 2022

cataway said:
mat 13 :34
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her brood of chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. 35 Look! Your house is abandoned to you. I tell you, you will by no means see me until you say: ‘Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name!’”

Nevertheless the Jews are part of God's chosen and God says a lot about not abandoning them completely and Paul also has things to say about it.

cataway · May 14, 2022

Brian2 said:
Nevertheless the Jews are part of God's chosen and God says a lot about not abandoning them completely and Paul also has things to say about it.

and what happens if the jew's reject Jesus as the christ ?

Brian2 · May 14, 2022

cataway said:
and what happens if the jew's reject Jesus as the christ ?

They no doubt will be judged as people of faith under the law and how they have lived their lives.
I guess it depends on if they are religious Jews or not however.
They will need to rely on the mercy of Jesus at the judgement.
Nevertheless God does not forget the Jewish people and they and the land of Israel feature in end times prophecies.
But as verse 25 below seems to say, there will be a great influx of Jews at the end of the age, maybe at the end of the Gentile times. Zech 12:10 seems to be speaking about that time.
The 144000 might actually be real Jews. They do seem to be sealed just before the 7th seal is opened after all. (Rev 7)

Romans 11:25 Brothers and sisters, I want you to understand this mystery so that you won’t become arrogant. The minds of some Israelites have become closed until all of God’s non-Jewish people are included. 26 In this way Israel as a whole will be saved, as Scripture says,
“The Savior will come from Zion.
He will remove godlessness from Jacob.
27 My promise to them will be fulfilled
when I take away their sins.”
28 The Good News made the Jewish people enemies because of you. But by God’s choice they are loved because of their ancestors. 29 God never changes his mind when he gives gifts or when he calls someone. 30 In the past, you disobeyed God. But now God has been merciful to you because of the disobedience of the Jewish people. 31 In the same way, the Jewish people have also disobeyed so that God may be merciful to them as he was to you. 32 God has placed all people into the prison of their own disobedience so that he could be merciful to all people.

nPeace · May 14, 2022

Brian2 said:
Those scriptures have nothing to do with the heavenly Jerusalem coming down to earth, which is said in Revelation to happen. So I don't need to have an interpretation for those scriptures.
That is the same with any JW scriptures that you say would support the existence of the 144000 only being in the Kingdom of God and being in the New Covenant and being in the Body of Christ and being born again with the Spirit of God etc. Those scriptures do not say that.
So when you say something is contrary to scriptures it might just mean that it is contrary to what the Governing Body tells you about the scriptures in question.

Quoting you... "...the scriptures tell us that the New Jerusalem is coming down to earth and God and the Lamb will be in it. It is like heaven is going to be on earth."

Nowhere in the Bible does it say "the New Jerusalem is coming down to earth and God and the Lamb will be in it".
That is false Brian.

Firstly, the lamb is the husband of the bride - New Jerusalem... and you are therefore claiming that the husband is in the bride. That is false... to put it mildly.

Secondly, New Jerusalem descends from God, to meet her husband. It doesn't come down to earth, as you claimed.
(Revelation 21:2) . . .I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Thirdly, God is in heaven, and the scriptures I referenced says that his will includes both heaven and earth, so heaven cannot be on earth.

Fourthly, the saints go to heaven - their everlasting dwelling place... refuting your beliefs, which are false.

It is the Bible that disagrees with your beliefs, which are false... I also disagree, as well as the GB.

Brian2 · May 15, 2022

nPeace said:
Quoting you... "...the scriptures tell us that the New Jerusalem is coming down to earth and God and the Lamb will be in it. It is like heaven is going to be on earth."

Nowhere in the Bible does it say "the New Jerusalem is coming down to earth and God and the Lamb will be in it".
That is false Brian.

Rev 3:12The one who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will never again leave it. Upon him I will write the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God (the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from My God), and My new name.

Rev 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.

...................................................................
Rev 21:9............... “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. 11 It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. 12 It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15 The angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city, its gates and its walls. 16 The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia in length, and as wide and high as it is long. 17 The angel measured the wall using human measurement, and it was 144 cubits thick. 18 The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. 19 The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth onyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass.
22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

nPeace said:
Thirdly, God is in heaven, and the scriptures I referenced says that his will includes both heaven and earth, so heaven cannot be on earth.

God lives with His people in New Jerusalem. The above scriptures tell us that.
I did not say that heaven is going to be destroyed just because God is on the earth.
God is actually everywhere and the heavens and the heaven of the heavens cannot contain Him, (see 2Chronicles 2:6) nevertheless He will be on earth in the New Jerusalem just as He was in the original Temple. His shekinah glory will be there I imagine and He and the Lamb will give light to the city, or so the scripture tells us.

nPeace said:
Fourthly, the saints go to heaven - their everlasting dwelling place... refuting your beliefs, which are false.

It is the Bible that disagrees with your beliefs, which are false... I also disagree, as well as the GB.

Where does it say that the 144000 dwell everlastingly in heaven?
I know where it says that they will be with Jesus wherever He goes.
It looks as if the scriptures say He is going to be in the New Jerusalem.

Clara Tea · May 16, 2022

Frank Goad said:
If there are 144,000 spirit anointed people who have a heavenly hope, and a great crowd of people who have another hope of everlasting life on paradise earth, why does Paul say that there is only ONE hope (Eph 4:4), instead of two?

I got this from here: Interactive Bible Home Page www.bible.ca

Stumper questions Jehovah's Witnesses do not like to be asked!

It is question number 40.

I got this from the King James version of the bible.

Paul was addressing Christians. Christians have one hope to get into heaven.

Brian2 · May 16, 2022

nPeace said:
Firstly, the lamb is the husband of the bride - New Jerusalem... and you are therefore claiming that the husband is in the bride. That is false... to put it mildly.

I didn't answer this part of your post, so I'll try here.
The OT depicts Israel as the bride of Godin various places and the Church in the NT is seen as the bride of Christ in places (eg 2Corinthians 11:2)
Our relationship is meant to be like that of a husband and wife in many ways and we are joined in spirit to the Lord. (1Cor 6:17) We are one in spirit just as a husband and wife become one body.
Christians are joined as the one body of Christ.
Christ is in us and with us.
The New Jerusalem is depicted as a golden cube where God will live forever with His glory shining. It is reminiscent of the Most Holy Place in the earthly Temple.
The Church lives in this New Jerusalem and God is it's Temple. The Church has a close relationship with God and is united to Christ.
It is possible that the New Jerusalem is the Church as described in symbolic language in Revelation. God and the Lamb live in the Church through the Holy Spirit in us.
This New Jerusalem does come down to earth according to Revelation and it is in Zion (on earth) that God said He wanted to live forever. (Joel 3:17 etc)
Whether the New Jerusalem is a real structure is to be seen.

abbabdon · May 16, 2022

Well i can tell ya that gnostic scripture says the 144k are a standing army, b/c 'They' are gathered at meggi'don, and 'They' will have a king over them, and it ain't Christ, tho 'They' will have His seal. Arma is a gathering pt. Just before the other place 'where the last strife of this world takes place'.. But i guess u r lookn for a jw prediction of a prophetic book of most likely the biggest Theologian of all the apostles.. So that can b a story for another day!

Bree · May 16, 2022

Frank Goad said:
If there are 144,000 spirit anointed people who have a heavenly hope, and a great crowd of people who have another hope of everlasting life on paradise earth, why does Paul say that there is only ONE hope (Eph 4:4), instead of two?

I got this from here: Interactive Bible Home Page www.bible.ca

Stumper questions Jehovah's Witnesses do not like to be asked!

It is question number 40.

I got this from the King James version of the bible.

What many people, is you take one verse, and assume that this one verse means exactly what it says in a very literal way.

But they fail to take into consideration many other scriptures, and the context of the entire discussion and the surrounding verses.

For example, you point out that Paul says "there is only ONE hope"
But if you read the entire scripture, he doesnt really say that.

Eph 4:4 One body there is,+ and one spirit,+ just as you were called to the one hope+ of your calling; 5 one Lord,+ one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

The 'CONTEXT' of the 'one hope' is seen in the subject i have coloured in red

"OF YOUR CALLING "

Paul was speaking to annointed christians. The 'CALLING' of annointed christians is to the heavens to rule with Christ as kings and priest. Of that calling, there is only 1 hope. It is the hope to rule with Christ in heaven as kings and priests.

And this is why it is so important to find the 'context' of the verse. And you also need only look at other verses to know that the 'calling' in the context above is speaking of the 'heavenly hope' Paul calls it in Heb 3:1 3 Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling

Brian2 · May 16, 2022

cataway said:
and what happens if the jew's reject Jesus as the christ ?

Most Jews have already done that but the prophecy is that they will see the one whom they have pierced and go into mourning. So they will know what they have done. (Zech 12)

Brian2 · May 16, 2022

Bree said:
What many people, is you take one verse, and assume that this one verse means exactly what it says in a very literal way.

But they fail to take into consideration many other scriptures, and the context of the entire discussion and the surrounding verses.

For example, you point out that Paul says "there is only ONE hope"
But if you read the entire scripture, he doesnt really say that.

Eph 4:4 One body there is,+ and one spirit,+ just as you were called to the one hope+ of your calling; 5 one Lord,+ one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

The 'CONTEXT' of the 'one hope' is seen in the subject i have coloured in red

"OF YOUR CALLING "

Paul was speaking to annointed christians. The 'CALLING' of annointed christians is to the heavens to rule with Christ as kings and priest. Of that calling, there is only 1 hope. It is the hope to rule with Christ in heaven as kings and priests.

And this is why it is so important to find the 'context' of the verse. And you also need only look at other verses to know that the 'calling' in the context above is speaking of the 'heavenly hope' Paul calls it in Heb 3:1 3 Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling

Why does "of your calling" mean that it is speaking to an anointed class of Christians who are going to heaven? Is that not just a interpretation of the Governing Body with no scriptural support?
It is the same with Heb 3:1, JWs want just a certain portion of Christians going to heaven but that is not supported by scripture, it is only supported by the interpretation of the Governing Body and is read into many scriptures because of that interpretation. Tell me where it says that only a part of the Christian body is going to heaven. Tell me where it says only a part is in the New Covenant, is part of the Body of Christ, is Born again etc etc etc.
It nowhere says that, but it can be read into texts if you are of the mind to do that and if you see the GBs interpretation as true and use that interpretation as basically part of scripture.

Bree · May 17, 2022

Brian2 said:
Why does "of your calling" mean that it is speaking to an anointed class of Christians who are going to heaven?

because that was Pauls audience.

Brian2 said:
Is that not just a interpretation of the Governing Body with no scriptural support?
It is the same with Heb 3:1, JWs want just a certain portion of Christians going to heaven but that is not supported by scripture,

It is very much supported by scripture and make perfect sense.

The earth is mankinds home. Adam was created here and given the instructions to 'subdue it'
Adam wasnt told to live here on earth for a short while then and then you'll come to heaven to be an angel.

Even Jesus spoke of a second group of people who would 'inherit the earth'
Matthew 5:5 “Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth.

They were described as a group of 'others' who were not of the same 'fold' as his disciples
John 10:16 “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold;+ those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.+

Brian2 said:
. Tell me where it says that only a part of the Christian body is going to heaven. Tell me where it says only a part is in the New Covenant, is part of the Body of Christ, is Born again etc etc etc.

Matthew 5: 3 “Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need,+ since the Kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.

Luke 12:32 “Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom.”

Those going to be with Christ in heaven are called a 'little flock' for a reason. If all mankind were going to be in heaven, then you would not call these people a 'little' flock would you?

I need Jehovah's Witnesses feed back.Because I always think I am interpreting it right.But am wrong.

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pistis sophia's el'eleth

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