Japan had reasons to attack America

Spiderman said:

I know your question wasnt for me, but an interesting fact is Mussolini had Jews originally in the highest ranks of his Fascist party, and Mussolini originally publically condemned Hitler's racism, stating "there is no pure race".

Mussolini when he eventually wrote racist laws told people in his party that the laws were stupid, and he didn't agree with them, but he needed to please the Germans to create an anti-communist, antibolshivek block, and resurrect a Roman Empire that can defend Europeans from the errors of the Soviet Union, crush red revolutions, and purge nations of the errors of Communism.

Benito stalled Hitler's annexation of Austria by putting troops on the border and called on America and Britain to help him stop German annexation of Austria. If America and Britain responded then, he would have joined the Allies.

He told Hitler not to attack Poland and temporarily stalled the Nazi invasion of Czechoslovakia.

With the fall of France , only Great Britain was left because America and Russia hadn't entered. It seemed Britain couldn't win, so Benito felt he might as well enter on the winning side, grab some land, and resurrect the Roman Empire, his dream.

But Benito Mussolini's alliance with Hitler was like America's alliance with the Soviet Union. Americans as a general rule hated the Soviets, but still were Allies. Sometimes in war, you ally yourself with people you don't like.

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Saint Frankenstein said:

It's not something we like to talk about. Most people these days wouldn't know about it. They don't teach this stuff at school.

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Saint Frankenstein said:

It's not something we like to talk about. Most people these days wouldn't know about it. They don't teach this stuff at school.

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Spiderman said:

Benito did many bad things, but in his almost 23 years in power , he created jobs, lowered crime drastically, made short work of the Mafia, kept families together, created independent Vatican city state, gave farmers free land, abolished slavery in Ethiopia, crushed Communism in the Spanish Civil war, and Fascist Italy per Capita had less percentage of people behind bars than present day America, and they had far more unity before world war 2.

When Gandhi went to Fascist Italy he praised Mussolini and said he couldn't find an Italian who didn't like IL Duce. Gandhi was his favorite visitor who left the greatest impression on him.

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Estimates vary on the number of people killed in the three days that followed the attempt on Graziani's life. Ethiopian sources estimated that 30,000 people were killed by the Italians, while Italian sources claimed that only a few hundred were killed. A 2017 history of the massacre estimated that 19,200 people were killed, 20 percent of the population of Addis Ababa.[2]

Over the following week, numerous Ethiopians suspected of opposing Italian rule were rounded up and executed, including members of the Black Lions and other members of the aristocracy. Emperor Haile Selassie had sent 125 men abroad to receive college education, but most of them were killed.[3] Many more were imprisoned, even collaborators such as Ras Gebre Haywot, the son of Ras Mikael of Wollo, Brehane Markos, and Ayale Gebre, who had helped the Italians identify the two men who made the attempt on Graziani's life.

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Kooky said:

I love how you sneaked in how he helped Franco engage in atrocities against hundreds of thousands of Spanish people who happened to fight on the wrong side of the Spanish Civil War. Yea, he looks like a real winner when you put it like that.

Let's also not forget his invasion of Ethopia and the numerous atrocities committed there by the Italian armed forces, such as chemical warfare as well as massacres against the civilian population, on top of it all being little more than colonialist conquest of an heretofore independent state.

Yekatit 12 - Wikipedia

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Spiderman said:

I said he did many bad things, but I focus on people's redeemable qualities.

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The Soviet backed Communists in the Spanish Civil War were cutting off priests hands so they couldn't celebrate mass, raping nuns, and forcing Christians to attend black masses and eat feces for holy communion, with countless other atrocities.

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Spiderman said:

Communists have the highest kill count of any form of government by far, so sadly, I think in the Spanish Civil War, they were the greater of two evils.

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Kooky said:

Is that so? Then let me ask you, why are you bringing up these atrocities?

Do you consider these redeemable qualities? If not, why bring them up then?

Why handwave away Mussolini's many atrocities as "bad things", but go into grotesque detail about the alleged atrocities of "Soviet backed Communists in the Spanish Civil War"?

If you "focus on people's redeemable qualities", then why do you so conspicuously leave out any sort of "redeemable qualities" on part of these "communists" you seem to hate so much? Are they less worthy of being redeemed than a literal mass murdering dictator?


White Terror (Spain) - Wikipedia
Victims of the White Terror (Spain) - Wikipedia

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Spiderman said:

I bring up one person's atrocities to demonstrate a sake of balance.

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The Communists atrocities were not covered in school when I grew up like their enemies were.

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The older I get, I realize there is a mix of good guys bad guys on both sides in something like the Spanish Civil War.

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The victorious leader following that war regretted having to shed so much blood, put a sword on an altar of a Church, and vowed to not do such acts again unless Spain were invaded.

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I love Communist leaders who show redeemable qualities as well.

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Kooky said:

Why? To paint the victims of fascism as bad people who deserved what was done to them?

Do you think that's what happened?
That Franco and Mussolini judged them for their sins and killed them as a form of redemption?


Really, what schools did you go to where you were taught about the atrocities of Italy and Spain in extensive detail, but literally nothing at all about the atrocities that happened in the USSR and the PRC?


And you consider Franco, who presided over numerous massacres on civilians, a good guy, because he was a devout Catholic and a fascist both - the thousands of lives he ended are only worthy of dismissal; after all, they were only socialists, and therefore deserved to die, right? Best to focus on the good parts, such as his cool uniforms!


And yet the Franquistas continued to persecute socialists, putting them into concentration camps, or driving them abroad into exile. Did you read anything from those articles I linked to at all?


Can you give an example of a communist leader you think qualifies?

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Luchito Prays said:

WW2 was about economic power, and historically, from the point of view in economics, England provoked Germany to invade other countries,, and the US provoked Japan for going into war.

The economy in late 1930s was great, but great great, for Germany and Japan.

Germany made fabulous contracts with South America, paying excellent prices for raw materials. Germany succeeded to become the greater nation all over the rest in Europe. Even its military power was so great, but so great, that three, not one, not two, but three big nations had to fight with Germany in order to win the war.

Any expert in war logistic and strategy will have no choice but to recognize that Germany in those years, fighting with England alone, England should be submerged under water these days, Germany against Russia alone, the new Russian babies will have German names , and Germany against the US alone,today the US language classes should be in German.

On the other hand, Japan was the envy of the great nations: Japan was the empire of the fish industry. No one was able and capable to compete with Japan. This country had huge ships with which not only catch fish but also processed it, Japan was as a strong nation.

These two nations, not connected one with the another, where the huge economical competence for US and Europe.

On the other hand, since 1800s, Jews made the numerical calculations for the restoration of Israel in Palestine (this is, by using prophecies interpretations, the known words of Daniel) , and for this task, England invaded it in 1918. Notice that England was to be sure that Germany was destroyed and humiliated, to guarantee the no interference of the plan.

The goal was to cause the birth of a new country 30 years later. Preparations started with the buying of Palestinian lands paying sometimes huge prices, and the second requirement was to fill those lands with more Jewish people. With the owning of lands and a majority of population, the basic requirements for the creation of a new nation was to be fulfilled.

The only problem was that Jewish people living in Europe and having their girls in ballet classes and their sons in cello learning classes, weren't so happy to move into a new land that in those days was nothing but dirt and stones.

Anyways...

With Germany and Japan as interference for the explained plans from above, because their powerful economical power and possible influence to perturb the birth of the new nation, the decision to destroy them became a motto.

Sometimes I think the only target was to destroy solely the Germany's power, and that the idea to destroy Japan's fish empire came later, when it was found how to put down Japan's industry using the war as an excuse.

In my early teens, A watched a movie "The Admiral Yamamoto" where it is presented that Japan sent the declaration of war to the US. If I don't remember very well, this declaration of war didn't reach American hands because problems with radio communications and interceptions of ships because the war. Point is that this Admiral was very concerned to attack Pearl Harbor before being sure the declaration of war was received by America.

This movie goes in accord to what happened in the years of the war.

Also, by knowing the scenario of those days, with respect of Japan as being the empire of the fish industry, one can finally understand why the US government put in concentration camps entire families of Japanese people.

It's very interesting all that past, but the past is the past.

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Kooky said:

@Spiderman
"Some scholars" is an interesting weasle word. Which scholars? Reputable ones, whose findings have been reviewed favorably by their peers?
The 200,000 number is the official number claimed by the War Crime trials in Tokyo, and the 300,000 is the official number claimed by PRC historians.

Obviously, the exact numbers will always remain variable by necessity, as contrary to what many non-historians seem to think, it's not actually all that simple to track down dead people if they're not wealthy and come up with really ironclad numbers. The Holocaust Archive for example still has tens of thousands of Nazi documents to go through in order to arrive at an accurate count of solely the Auschwitz victims, over 70 years after the fact - the actual numbers can only be estimates naturally.


The Soviets were the most evil mass murderers in World War 2 who invaded Poland when the Germans did, and took over Eastern Europe without a slap on the wrist. The Soviet Union earned the nickname "army of rapists" when they caused the biggest single mass rape epidemic in history.

Contrary to anti-Soviet propaganda during the Cold War, while the Soviet Union certainly did commit atrocities against minority populations at a smaller scale, it likely did not engage in directed genocide against a large number of its own civilian population. It is my understanding that the Black Book of Communism's numbers, which are often cited by anti-Soviet scholars, are not based on proper historical fact finding - although I wouldn't go so far as some scholars did and call them fabrication, as some portions of it do ring somewhat true to me personally.

Certainly, somebody with no connection to European history and only a vague understanding of the human misery involved in the World War started by Nazi Germany, and the enormous atrocities and crimes against humanity the Nazis committed, could to jump to quick moral condemnation based on whatever revisionist literature they could find. "The Soviet Union was worse than the Nazis" is certainly a popular talking point among American conservatives with a limited understanding of history, for example, and such talk also frequently brings out people of a certain political dispensation who have waited their whole lives to not be the "bad guys" of history any more.

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