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I need Jehovah's Witnesses feed back.Because I always think I am interpreting it right.But am wrong.

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
  1. Heb 3:1 refers to "holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling". In Mk 3:35, Jesus says, "Whoever does the will of God, this one is my brother ...". Therefore, according to the Bible, whoever does the will of God is a brother of Jesus and a partaker of the heavenly calling. How can this be if the Watchtower Society teaches that only 144,000 people go to heaven?
I got this from here: Interactive Bible Home Page www.bible.ca

Stumper questions Jehovah's Witnesses do not like to be asked!

It is question number 56.:)

I got this from the King James version of the bible
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
  1. Heb 3:1 refers to "holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling". In Mk 3:35, Jesus says, "Whoever does the will of God, this one is my brother ...". Therefore, according to the Bible, whoever does the will of God is a brother of Jesus and a partaker of the heavenly calling. How can this be if the Watchtower Society teaches that only 144,000 people go to heaven?
I got this from here: Interactive Bible Home Page www.bible.ca

Stumper questions Jehovah's Witnesses do not like to be asked!

It is question number 56.:)

I got this from the King James version of the bible
Reading Mark 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Yes, brothers, sisters, and mothers.
Sounds like a spiritual family doesn't it. All of Jesus' followers are a brotherhood.
(1 Peter 2:17) . . .have love for the whole association of brothers. . .

Is the whole association of brothers 'holy brothers'? No.
Consider Matthew 25:40 ...Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

At Hebrews 3:1 Paul was not speaking to you Frank; nor me; nor the JW stumpers. Paul was talking to those anointed to be partakers of the heavenly kingdom - the saints.

Notice, they are not the sheep Jesus is addressing identifying as his brothers at Matthew 25. They are the little flock. Luke 12:32 - his brothers.
How many are those? Revelation 7:1-4; Revelation 14:1-4

I am sure this is above your head, but let me know.

Let's make sure it is clear.
Who are the sheep in Matthew 25 assisting?
How many are they among the great multitude? Revelation 7:9
How many are sealed as holy ones? Revelation 7:1-4
 
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Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
  1. Heb 3:1 refers to "holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling". In Mk 3:35, Jesus says, "Whoever does the will of God, this one is my brother ...". Therefore, according to the Bible, whoever does the will of God is a brother of Jesus and a partaker of the heavenly calling. How can this be if the Watchtower Society teaches that only 144,000 people go to heaven?
I got this from here: Interactive Bible Home Page www.bible.ca

Stumper questions Jehovah's Witnesses do not like to be asked!

It is question number 56.:)

I got this from the King James version of the bible
If you need JW to explain to you, you have become an JW :) you do not speak of metodist teaching, so from now on you are seen as a Jehovas wittness in my view :)
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
At Hebrews 3:1 Paul was not speaking to you Frank; nor me; nor the JW stumpers. Paul was talking to those anointed to be partakers of the heavenly kingdom - the saints.

Who told you that Heb 3:1 is referring to only the 144000?
Isn't that just a presumption based on the supposition that the teachings of the Watchtower are correct?
Doesn't this supposition also mean that a great part of the New Testament is also only for the 144000?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
If you need JW to explain to you, you have become an JW :) you do not speak of metodist teaching, so from now on you are seen as a Jehovas wittness in my view :)
One can only become a JW by completing the following steps...
  1. have a personal Bible study with one of JW.
  2. confirm that they agree that what they are learning is the truth from God's word.
  3. associate with JWs at their meetings
  4. participate in the ministry with JWs
  5. repent of dead works
  6. make a dedication to God, to do his will
  7. undergo water baptism as one of JWs

Until those steps are complete, one is not a JW.
One cannot just declare themselves to be a JW, and actually be. It doesn't work that way.

Perhaps that's why there are so many "Christians"
Everyone is a "Christian" so long as they declare it.
They are not... but they say it.

A Christian is such, only when they are a follower of Christ - his teachings, and example... at least, in God's view.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
One can only become a JW by completing the following steps...
  1. have a personal Bible study with one of JW.
  2. confirm that they agree that what they are learning is the truth from God's word.
  3. associate with JWs at their meetings
  4. participate in the ministry with JWs
  5. repent of dead works
  6. make a dedication to God, to do his will
  7. undergo water baptism as one of JWs

Until those steps are complete, one is not a JW.
One cannot just declare themselves to be a JW, and actually be. It doesn't work that way.

Perhaps that's why there are so many "Christians"
Everyone is a "Christian" so long as they declare it.
They are not... but they say it.

A Christian is such, only when they are a follower of Christ - his teachings, and example... at least, in God's view.
You might be right in this :)
The reason i said that @Frank Goad sound more like a JW, is due to his constant refering to "What do JW think of this" kind of questions.

Nothing wrong in that of course. Personally like people from JW faith.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Who told you that Heb 3:1 is referring to only the 144000?
Jesus' apostles... through the scriptures.

Isn't that just a presumption based on the supposition that the teachings of the Watchtower are correct?
No. It's the teaching of the apostles of Christ in scriptures, which JWs in turn, teach.

Doesn't this supposition also mean that a great part of the New Testament is also only for the 144000?
It's not a supposition.
The scriptures are clear. Jesus came to gather the lost sheep of Israel.
(Isaiah 53:6) Like sheep we have all wandered about, Each has turned his own way, And Jehovah has caused the error of us all to meet up with him.

(Ezekiel 34:6) My sheep were straying on all the mountains and on every high hill; my sheep were scattered over all the surface of the earth, with no one searching for them or seeking to find them.

(Ezekiel 34:20-24) 20 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says to them: “Here I am, and I myself will judge between a fat sheep and a lean sheep, 21 for with your flank and shoulder you kept pushing, and with your horns you kept shoving all the sick ones until you had scattered them abroad. 22 And I will save my sheep, and they will no longer become something to prey upon; and I will judge between a sheep and a sheep. 23 I will raise up one shepherd over them, my servant David, and he will feed them. He himself will feed them and become their shepherd. 24 And I, Jehovah, will become their God, and my servant David a chieftain among them. I myself, Jehovah, have spoken.

The first to be gathered are the firstfruits to God, and the lamb. They are a small flock. The Bible says they number 144,000. Revelation 14:1-4; Luke 12:32

These are called to be kings and priest, and rule with Christ. They are heirs of the kingdom. They are holy ones - the saints. Daniel 7:18-27; Galatians 3
...and yes, all of the letters of the apostles and disciples of Christ, are addressed to the holy ones - those who will go to heaven. Romans 1:7; Romans 8:27; Romans 12:13; Romans 15:25-33; Romans 16:1-2; 1 Corinthians 1:2... too many scriptures to list

Paul says the creation - that include us, wait for their revealing. Romans 8:20-22

Do you disagree with anything here?

(Hebrews 3:1) . . .holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling. . .
The holy brothers are partakers of the heavenly calling.

So I have the same questions for you, which Frank seems unable to answer.
Who are the sheep in Matthew 25 assisting?
How many are they among the great multitude? Revelation 7:9
How many are sealed as holy ones? Revelation 7:1-4

Plus this one...
Only the 144,000 are sealed. Revelation 7:1-4 Nowhere does the scriptures say the great multitude are sealed.
Those who go to heaven are sealed with that guarantee - 2 Corinthians 1:22; 2 Corinthians 5:5; Romans 8:23; Ephesians 1:13-14.
So why would you assume the great multitude go to heaven?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
You might be right in this :)
The reason i said that @Frank Goad sound more like a JW, is due to his constant refering to "What do JW think of this" kind of questions.
I understand. However, asking what JWs believe about something, is a clear marker that they are not a JW. All of JWs know what JWs believe.
They can't not know, since they must first understand what JWs teach before accepting it, and they must also become teachers in harmony with those beliefs.
If one does not agree, they cannot be with us. That would be chaos... like what we see in the many "Christian" churches who don't mind cozying up to each other, but sounding like a mass of confusion to those who hear them.

Nothing wrong in that of course. Personally like people from JW faith.
True. I think most people do... including Frank.
It's just that the JWs way of worship is not for those who want to 'relax' and worship God on their terms.

It's a life of sacrifice, where your whole way of life reflect that you follow Christ, who said...
If anyone would minister to me, let him follow me, and where I am, there my minister will be also. . . . (John 12:26)
And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. . . (Matthew 10:38)

Most people choose religion, based on how easy it is for them to feel comfortable.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
One can only become a JW by completing the following steps...
  1. have a personal Bible study with one of JW.
  2. confirm that they agree that what they are learning is the truth from God's word.
  3. associate with JWs at their meetings
  4. participate in the ministry with JWs
  5. repent of dead works
  6. make a dedication to God, to do his will
  7. undergo water baptism as one of JWs
Until those steps are complete, one is not a JW.
That's clear info. Nice


Until those steps are complete, one is not a JW.
One cannot just declare themselves to be a JW, and actually be. It doesn't work that way
:cool:

A Christian is such, only when they are a follower of Christ - his teachings, and example... at least, in God's view
Being a Christian is like 100++ times more difficult than being a JW (seeing your definitions). I guess you agree to that?
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I understand. However, asking what JWs believe about something, is a clear marker that they are not a JW. All of JWs know what JWs believe.
They can't not know, since they must first understand what JWs teach before accepting it, and they must also become teachers in harmony with those beliefs.
If one does not agree, they cannot be with us. That would be chaos... like what we see in the many "Christian" churches who don't mind cozying up to each other, but sounding like a mass of confusion to those who hear them.


True. I think most people do... including Frank.
It's just that the JWs way of worship is not for those who want to 'relax' and worship God on their terms.

It's a life of sacrifice, where your whole way of life reflect that you follow Christ, who said...
If anyone would minister to me, let him follow me, and where I am, there my minister will be also. . . . (John 12:26)
And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. . . (Matthew 10:38)

Most people choose religion, based on how easy it is for them to feel comfortable.
Are you saying JW must believe exactly the same if they have a different under of the teaching they are not true JW?

No disrespect, but isn't that being a slave?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
That's clear info. Nice



:cool:


Being a Christian is like 100++ times more difficult than being a JW (seeing your definitions). I guess you agree to that?
I don't agree stvdv.
Being a JW is the same as being a Christian, which is 100++ times more difficult than being a "Christian"... the latter just requiring putting on some "Sunday church going threads", and "going to church".

No need to study the Bible. The pastor does that for us.
No need to preach, teach or minister. The pastor does that for us.
No need to stop cussing, fornicating, or grabbing women by the .... The pastor does that for us.

Giving into the flesh is easier than fighting the flesh with the spirit. Relaxing is easier than working.
You agree, I'm sure.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Are you saying JW must believe exactly the same if they have a different under of the teaching they are not true JW?

No disrespect, but isn't that being a slave?
I love this...
(1 Corinthians 1:10) . . .Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.

What about you?
Would that not create a totally peaceful environment?

What about this...
(John 13:35) 35 By this all will know that you are my disciple - if you have love among yourselves.”

Do you like that?
Is that not the way it should be?

Imaging that I had my own view of things, and how we should do things, and another had a different view, would there be unity?
For example, if some felt fighting in wars was okay, how could those two scriptures apply?
Brother would kill brother, and there would be no love or agreement.
Would you agree?

The Bible says... 'For God is a God not of disorder but of peace.. . .' (1 Corinthians 14:33)
The reason unity exist among Jehovah's people, is because they are under God's arangement. 1 Corinthians 11:3

As one body, all the parts work together, in unity.
(Ephesians 4:16) . . .From him all the body is harmoniously joined together and made to cooperate through every joint that gives what is needed. When each respective member functions properly, this contributes to the growth of the body as it builds itself up in love.

Imagine if you are dressing, and your arms decided, "I don't want to pull your pants over your legs".
You would not be able to leave home, now would you? ;)

Regarding slavery, that doesn't exist, since everyone freely makes the decision, to either accept or not.
No one is forced to accept.
One accepts when they agree. When they don't agree, they don't accept.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Are you saying JW must believe exactly the same if they have a different under of the teaching they are not true JW?

No disrespect, but isn't that being a slave?
Oh. In case I misunderstood your question. No JWs do not have to all agree to wear the same color underwear, shirt, or dress. :)
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I love this...
(1 Corinthians 1:10) . . .Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.

What about you?
Would that not create a totally peaceful environment?

What about this...
(John 13:35) 35 By this all will know that you are my disciple - if you have love among yourselves.”

Do you like that?
Is that not the way it should be?

Imaging that I had my own view of things, and how we should do things, and another had a different view, would there be unity?
For example, if some felt fighting in wars was okay, how could those two scriptures apply?
Brother would kill brother, and there would be no love or agreement.
Would you agree?

The Bible says... 'For God is a God not of disorder but of peace.. . .' (1 Corinthians 14:33)
The reason unity exist among Jehovah's people, is because they are under God's arangement. 1 Corinthians 11:3

As one body, all the parts work together, in unity.
(Ephesians 4:16) . . .From him all the body is harmoniously joined together and made to cooperate through every joint that gives what is needed. When each respective member functions properly, this contributes to the growth of the body as it builds itself up in love.

Imagine if you are dressing, and your arms decided, "I don't want to pull your pants over your legs".
You would not be able to leave home, now would you? ;)

Regarding slavery, that doesn't exist, since everyone freely makes the decision, to either accept or not.
No one is forced to accept.
One accepts when they agree. When they don't agree, they don't accept.
"In my understanding "is a phrase i use all the time when speaking about religious teaching. That means i can speak about the teaching based of my personal understanding, or at the level of wisdom i have gained through practice and study.
Because each human being will have slightly different way of understanding the scripture. So if a person only know how to answer according to what they have been told thescripture means, they them selves have not gained any understanding, and can not rise in wisdom from within. (They only repeate words, but have no understanding of what they mean)
So when asked questions, they cannot answer from their heart,because their heart do not hold wisdom of the teaching.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
"In my understanding "is a phrase i use all the time when speaking about religious teaching. That means i can speak about the teaching based of my personal understanding, or at the level of wisdom i have gained through practice and study.
Because each human being will have slightly different way of understanding the scripture. So if a person only know how to answer according to what they have been told thescripture means, they them selves have not gained any understanding, and can not rise in wisdom from within. (They only repeate words, but have no understanding of what they mean)
So when asked questions, they cannot answer from their heart,because their heart do not hold wisdom of the teaching.
I totally agree.
That is not how things are among JWs.

Here is an example of a Bible study.
This may or may not occur after it has been shown that God is, and the Bible is a reliable source of truth.

This is an old format.
Topic - The dead
JW : Question - Do you believe the dead can harm us or help us?
Student : Options a) Yes; b) No; c) I was taught that...; d) I don't know; e) other
JW : Let's see what the Bible says. Read (scripture). What does the Bible say about...​
After a few questions and scriptures, such as "Do you believe xyz? What do you think?" etc.
The conclusion involves getting the person's final viewpoint on the scriptures considered.
Questions such as "Do you believe?" "Do you think?"
The student is expected to be honest, in responding, and the vast majority are... if not all.

So the person is studying the Bible for themselves. They are given scripture, some of which they have never even seen, or read, and they are encouraged to research for themselve. They are not hindered from asking other people who are not JWs, and some even attend their church meetings while studying.
At the end of the day, the person is studying the Bible, and learning what the Bible teaches, for themselves. They are the ones deciding if they agree, or not.
There are people who disagree, and we reason with them. They don't have to accept, and that happens.
Only when they think that the scriptures actually say something, do they agree... unless they are lying, and that's on them.
There is no reason to lie.
It's not like we will torture them to death, if they don't.

Bible study is not a matter of my opinion, your opinion. That's man's ideas being accepted, either from self, or others, and in my experience, sincere people do not know that they can trust these, but for good reason, most trust the Bible. They just know they need to understand it correctly.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I totally agree.
That is not how things are among JWs.

Here is an example of a Bible study.
This may or may not occur after it has been shown that God is, and the Bible is a reliable source of truth.

This is an old format.
Topic - The dead
JW : Question - Do you believe the dead can harm us or help us?
Student : Options a) Yes; b) No; c) I was taught that...; d) I don't know; e) other
JW : Let's see what the Bible says. Read (scripture). What does the Bible say about...​
After a few questions and scriptures, such as "Do you believe xyz? What do you think?" etc.
The conclusion involves getting the person's final viewpoint on the scriptures considered.
Questions such as "Do you believe?" "Do you think?"
The student is expected to be honest, in responding, and the vast majority are... if not all.

So the person is studying the Bible for themselves. They are given scripture, some of which they have never even seen, or read, and they are encouraged to research for themselve. They are not hindered from asking other people who are not JWs, and some even attend their church meetings while studying.
At the end of the day, the person is studying the Bible, and learning what the Bible teaches, for themselves. They are the ones deciding if they agree, or not.
There are people who disagree, and we reason with them. They don't have to accept, and that happens.
Only when they think that the scriptures actually say something, do they agree... unless they are lying, and that's on them.
There is no reason to lie.
It's not like we will torture them to death, if they don't.

Bible study is not a matter of my opinion, your opinion. That's man's ideas being accepted, either from self, or others, and in my experience, sincere people do not know that they can trust these, but for good reason, most trust the Bible. They just know they need to understand it correctly.
But what is correctly?
Only word by word from the bible? Or levels of understanding do occure within the scripture?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
"In my understanding "is a phrase i use all the time when speaking about religious teaching. That means i can speak about the teaching based of my personal understanding, or at the level of wisdom i have gained through practice and study.
Because each human being will have slightly different way of understanding the scripture. So if a person only know how to answer according to what they have been told thescripture means, they them selves have not gained any understanding, and can not rise in wisdom from within. (They only repeate words, but have no understanding of what they mean)
So when asked questions, they cannot answer from their heart,because their heart do not hold wisdom of the teaching.
Our young people can reason very well. They can teach, and have done so, professors and highly educated people, from the Bible... expressing themselves in their own words.
Maybe you can find this out for yourself, by talking with some of them.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Our young people can reason very well. They can teach, and have done so, professors and highly educated people, from the Bible... expressing themselves in their own words.
Maybe you can find this out for yourself, by talking with some of them.
I speak with JW many times each year, very interesting discussions, even with the young guys who preach in the streets. But when asking them a difficult question they have not prepared, they get stuck and do not know what to answer.

They have become like robots
 
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