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God and Wholeness, Absolute

Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
can the idea of God be whole, absolute, if it is separated/divided/contrasted/relative from anything?

absolute generally means all but if god is separate from something, then god and that something would have to be the Absolute, making something greater than god alone?


absolute | Search Online Etymology Dictionary
 
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TreeOfLife

TreeOfLife

Member
In John 14:20 It States that God and Jesus are in us there's your Trinity. So therefore I postulate that God is not whole without his creation.
 
Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
TreeOfLife said:
In John 14:20 It States that God and Jesus are in us there's your Trinity. So therefore I postulate that God is not whole without his creation.
Click to expand...
welcome to RF.


so the naassene liken it more to reason(logos), psychical(ethereal), earthly(matter)

But they divide him as Geryon11 into three parts. For, say they, of this man one part is rational, another psychical, another earthly. And they suppose that the knowledge of him is the originating principle of the capacity for a knowledge of God, expressing themselves thus: "The originating principle of perfection is the knowledge12 of man, while the knowledge of God is absolute perfection." All these qualities, however-rational, and psychical, and earthly-have, (the Naassene) says, retired and descended into one man simultaneously-Jesus,13 who was born of Mary. And these three men (the Naassene) says, are in the habit of speaking (through Jesus) at the same time together, each from their own proper substances to those peculiarly their own. For, according to these, there are three kinds of all existent things-angelic, psychical, earthly; and there are three churches-angelic, psychical, earthly; and the names of these are elect, called, captive.


i also learned it as a mind, body, spirit complex
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Fool said:
can the idea of God be whole, absolute, if it is separated/divided/contrasted/relative from anything?

absolute generally means all but if god is separate from something, then god and that something would have to be the Absolute, making something greater than god alone?


absolute | Search Online Etymology Dictionary
Click to expand...

Are you saying that God is everything?
If so, in what way is God absolute,,,,,,,,,,,above other things?
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
TreeOfLife said:
In John 14:20 It States that God and Jesus are in us there's your Trinity. So therefore I postulate that God is not whole without his creation.
Click to expand...

Before creating anything God was whole imo. His creation does not make Him greater, just greater relative to His creation.
 
Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Brian2 said:
Are you saying that God is everything?
If so, in what way is God absolute,,,,,,,,,,,above other things?
Click to expand...
to be absolute means there can be nothing in contrast, or relative to that which is claiming absolute.

absolute is what is basically being claimed in

isaiah 45:5-22
 
TreeOfLife

TreeOfLife

Member
Comment/Question: Isn't Gods creation ever expanding? He made everything to bring forth after its kind. Seed: In a spiritual and physical sense His creation is ever growing and if God has to be absolute does that mean He has to have a limit?
BRIAN "Before creating anything God was whole imo. His creation does not make Him greater, just greater relative to His creation."
That is a good answer but I will have to wrap my head around it for a while to think thru all the things floating in my head
 
Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
TreeOfLife said:
Comment/Question: Isn't Gods creation ever expanding? He made everything to bring forth after its kind. Seed: In a spiritual and physical sense His creation is ever growing and if God has to be absolute does that mean He has to have a limit?
BRIAN "Before creating anything God was whole imo. His creation does not make Him greater, just greater relative to His creation."
That is a good answer but I will have to wrap my head around it for a while to think thru all the things floating in my head
Click to expand...


god doesn't come or go, doesn't grow/regress; if god is omnipresent and absolute. growing would imply that it was moving into something other than itself and would imply contrast, or relative to other than self.
 
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dybmh

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Fool said:
can the idea of God be whole, absolute, if it is separated/divided/contrasted/relative from anything?

absolute generally means all but if god is separate from something, then god and that something would have to be the Absolute, making something greater than god alone?


absolute | Search Online Etymology Dictionary
Click to expand...
Contrasted? Yes. In order to be whole it needs to include one side of the contrasting qualities from the front and the other side is included from the back. This is accomplished with attitude or countenance. That way both qualities are included, but only one set is preferred.

Remember, we are created in God's image. We have front and back, God has front and back.
 
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Fool

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
dybmh said:
Contrasted? Yes. In order to be whole it needs to include one side of the contrasting qualities from the front and the other side is included from the back. This is accomplished with attitude or countenance. That way both qualities are included, but only one set is preferred.

Remember, we are created in God's image. We have front and back, God has front and back.
Click to expand...


i'm referring to something apart from it and not parts of it. in other words, a dualist would see god as contrasted to themselves, or to another human, or earth, or whatever object they are observing.
 
dybmh

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Fool said:
i'm referring to something apart from it and not parts of it. in other words, a dualist would see god as contrasted to themselves, or to another human, or earth, or whatever object they are observing.
Click to expand...
How do you interpret Genesis 1 without acknowledging multiplicity?
 
TreeOfLife

TreeOfLife

Member
Fool said:
god doesn't come or go, doesn't grow/regress; if god is omnipresent and absolute. growing would imply that it was moving into something other than itself and would imply contrast, or relative to other than self.
Click to expand...

God doesn't have to grow as His creation grows. So He can be complete what ever size His creation is
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Fool said:
can the idea of God be whole, absolute, if it is separated/divided/contrasted/relative from anything?

absolute generally means all but if god is separate from something, then god and that something would have to be the Absolute, making something greater than god alone?


absolute | Search Online Etymology Dictionary
Click to expand...

God, in being everything (i.e. only), is all somethings. I firmly believe that monotheism is the way to perceive god; else, there's no real need to perceive god (pragmatist that I am).
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Fool said:
to be absolute means there can be nothing in contrast, or relative to that which is claiming absolute.

absolute is what is basically being claimed in

isaiah 45:5-22
Click to expand...

Certainly there are no other Gods to whom we can compare YHWH or claim to be equal to YHWH.
Isa 46:5)
 
TreeOfLife

TreeOfLife

Member
Willamena said:
God, in being everything (i.e. only), is all somethings. I firmly believe that monotheism is the way to perceive god; else, there's no real need to perceive god (pragmatist that I am).
Click to expand...

Again. Man is making G-d in his image. Why is it that G-d can't have a son. This is His heir. And as in Matt 28:18. He has been given all power in heaven and earth.

G-d put seed in all of his creation. Therefore it is never ending. We too are heirs to sit with Christ
 
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