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Are you a liar?

Redemptionsong

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone said:
Yeah, that does not work so well when you leave your country and go to another one that does not share your religious beliefs. Those stories are likely false too. Just try it today. A person from London would have a very difficult time trying to arrest people in France that broke a British law that was not a crime in France. Once again it appears to be mythical.
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Saul was not travelling between different countries but within provinces of the Roman empire!! Saul of Tarsus would have had no problem doing this as he was a Roman citizen. Read your Roman history!
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Redemptionsong said:
Saul was not travelling between different countries but within provinces of the Roman empire!! Saul of Tarsus would have had no problem doing this as he was a Roman citizen. Read your Roman history!
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Fine, it was a separate principality. Saul, Paul, whichever you prefer, he never did change his name, still would have had no authority in Damascus. Hebrew laws would not apply there.
 
Kelly of the Phoenix

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Redemptionsong said:
IMO, Jesus divides people into two camps. You are either for him, and the truth, or you are against him, and the truth. Why? Because Jesus speaks as God.
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I worship the Truth, the Way, and the Life. That’s why I can’t take Jesus seriously anymore. The test of a false prophet is that they get things wrong. If they do, they are executed. Jesus was executed, so …
 
Kelly of the Phoenix

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Redemptionsong said:
To me, the Bible is evidence of God. I do not believe that the Bible could have written by men without the inspiration of God.
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I’m reading Thrawn now. It’s better written. So are the following:
Where the Red Fern Grows
Harry Potter (series)
Shadows of the Empire
American Indian Myths and Legends
Josiah and the Theocrats

no, wait, no one is buying that one, lol

The Secret History of the Mongol Queens

pretty much everything in my kindle is better written, though there are unfortunately some pieces of crap
 
Kelly of the Phoenix

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Elihoenai said:
Matthew 28:18

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Yes, the Roman Catholic Church has Dominion over all the World. This Dominion is ordained by Elohim/God. You don't have to be or view yourself as Christian to be under the control of Christians. Can you see this?
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I prefer my worldly leaders to be less into kids, I mean sin.
 
Redemptionsong

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
F1fan said:
You are denying we critical thinkers as we point out your Christian dogma not only lacks evidence, but is contrary to what we know of reality.

Can you admit your religious beliefs are no factual? Can you admit they are not factually true?
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When one studies the scriptures, there are different forms of evidence to consider. Some forms of evidence appeal to the heart, and other forms to the intellect. Both forms of evidence are important in establishing the truth of scripture. So also is faith, which Paul defines as 'the evidence of things not seen' [Hebrews 11].

Much of the teaching found in the Bible is described as 'wisdom'. This is not 'factual', as you understand 'facts' but is knowledge based on experience, and insights into the human condition.
 
Redemptionsong

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
F1fan said:
This is a logical fallacy. Your beliefs about the Bible are true because the Bible says so. It's circular reasoning. The Bible and your beliefs about the Bible are the CLAIMS. You need evidence and reasoning to support your beliefs, which you don't do. No Christian can.
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Jesus said, 'scripture cannot be broken'. Why? Because the truth is circular and complete. Truth is the way, and the way is life. Life is light, and light is love. God is all these things!

The only way to break into the 'circle of life' is through faith.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Redemptionsong said:
Saul's letters gave him authority to bring the offenders back to Jerusalem for trial.
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Really? Prove it. How would any such letters do such a thing in another part of the Roman empire? Damascus at that time had freedom of religion. There were Muslims, Pagans, Early Christians and even Jews there. It is pretty hard to go after one of them without the others going WTF?

EDIT: In fact even Paul implied that what he was trying to do was illegal:

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Corinthians 11:32-33 - New International Version

So you have Paul going to what amounted to being another country, I did some more checking and Syria had autonomy at that time. Which means that it would have had the status of a client state. Still conquered by Rome but not exactly part of the Roman empire. Like Judea under King Herod (which is another reason that Luke screwed the pooch with his myth, client states paid tribute, the individuals were not taxed. There would have been no such taxation until after Rome took full control, which occurred in 5CE which is why they ordered a census that take place in 6 CE.).
 
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Redemptionsong

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone said:
Really? Prove it. How would any such letters do such a thing in another part of the Roman empire? Damascus at that time had freedom of religion. There were Muslims, Pagans, Early Christians and even Jews there. It is pretty hard to go after one of them without the others going WTF?

EDIT: In fact even Paul implied that what he was trying to do was illegal:

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Corinthians 11:32-33 - New International Version

So you have Paul going to what amounted to being another country, I did some more checking and Syria had autonomy at that time. Which means that it would have had the status of a client state. Still conquered by Rome but not exactly part of the Roman empire. Like Judea under King Herod (which is another reason that Luke screwed the pooch with his myth, client states paid tribute, the individuals were not taxed. There would have been no such taxation until after Rome took full control, which occurred in 5CE which is why they ordered a census that take place in 6 CE.).
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What are you talking about?!

Muhammad was not born until 570CE. How could there be Muslims living in Damascus at the time of Paul?

How am l meant to take you seriously when you show such little interest in uncovering the truth?
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Redemptionsong said:
What are you talking about?!

Muhammad was not born until 570CE. How could there be Muslims living in Damascus at the time of Paul?

How am l meant to take you seriously when you show such little interest in uncovering the truth?
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Okay, minor error, Arabic people. They were not Jews. And ease up on the projection son. I am the one that is looking for the truth, you are the one treating the Bible as fan fiction.
 
F

F1fan

Veteran Member
Redemptionsong said:
I treat the Bible as the written word of God.
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And you could be totally mistaken to assume this is the case. You are a fallible mortal, yes? You're not perfect or a God, yes? You make errors of judgment, yes?

It's you that has no respect for the Bible.
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Here you go again accusing others of being wrong because they don't agree with you. And again, you offer no explanation what makes you right and others wrong.

Let's take a look at the nativity, and see whether the record found in the Bible is a 'myth' (by which you probably mean 'lie' or 'falsehood').

Where do you think this 'myth' begins, and ends?
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The question is why people with access to modern knowledge and reasoning skill will assume these stories are true at face value. The only people who do this are those exposed to the social influence of thinking this way. Why aren't you Catholic? Because you weren't exposed to that form of Christianity.
 
F

F1fan

Veteran Member
Redemptionsong said:
When one studies the scriptures, there are different forms of evidence to consider. Some forms of evidence appeal to the heart, and other forms to the intellect. Both forms of evidence are important in establishing the truth of scripture. So also is faith, which Paul defines as 'the evidence of things not seen' [Hebrews 11].
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This is a bogus excuse. there's no such thing. You are in essence trying to create an excuse to believe what you want to believe without actual evidence and without reason. Try that in court.

Much of the teaching found in the Bible is described as 'wisdom'. This is not 'factual', as you understand 'facts' but is knowledge based on experience, and insights into the human condition.
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Notice you avoided my question. I asked you:

Can you admit your religious beliefs are not factual? Can you admit they are not factually true?​

Fact means fact. Reasoning from facts in how we come to valid conclusions. Just answer my question.
 
Elihoenai

Elihoenai

Well-Known Member
Redemptionsong said:
I have a book called 'The Holiest of All' by Andrew Murray, which speaks the truth to me about the teaching of the Epistle to the Hebrews.

Here is an excerpt:
'Our Lord Jesus learned obedience by the things which He suffered. Through this obedience He was made perfect, and became the cause of eternal salvation to all that obey Him. So he entered heaven as our High priest, a Son, perfected for evermore.
The word perfect is one of the keywords of the Epistle. It occurs thirteen times. Four times in regard to the Old Testament, which could make nothing perfect (vii.19). Sacrifices that cannot, as touching the conscience, make the worshipper perfect (ix.9). The law can never make perfect them that draw nigh (x.1). That apart from us they should not be made perfect (xi.40). As great as is the difference between a promise and its fulfilment, or hope and the thing hoped for, between the shadow and substance, is the difference between the Old and New Testament. The law made nothing perfect: it was only meant to point to something better, to the perfection Jesus Christ was to bring.'

I believe we have to be careful not to slip back into a form of legalism, brought about by a misunderstanding of what Christ came to bring.
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2 Thessalonians 2:10-12

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


@Redemptionsong Therefore, your answer is "No" to the question about whether any of the writers you named teach requirement for observing the Law of Moses and the Levitical Priesthood. That's because, as far as I'm aware, there is no teacher in Christendom that instructs about their requirements.

Andrew Murray does not understand the book of Hebrews or he is leading you astray. @Redemptionsong You are a member of the Earthly Universal Roman Catholic Church. You are Not Saved.
 
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