I wouldn't rely on the testimony of the false prophet Paul for your "salvation". Those who are "saved"/"survive" during the day of the LORD (Joel 2:31-32) are those on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem. The "day of the LORD" happens at the beginnning of the millennium, not the end. If you haven't entered into "life" (Matthew 19:17) before death, don't expect to have anything to do with the "first resurrection" which is constituted by those who heed the testimony of Yeshua and keep the Commandments of God (Revelation 14:12) The "second death" addressed by Rev 20:6, refers to those not in the first resurrection, which happens 1000 years after the first resurrection. The second death is after the white throne judgment, regarding those not in the book of life, who are thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15). Those who escape the "second death" are those who "overcome" (Revelation 2:11). As for the "soul", it is a combination of dust and the breath of life from God. When you die, the breath of life returns to God, and is without a body, and cannot hear or speak.
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Are you a liar?
- Thread starter Redemptionsong
- Start date
I wouldn't rely on the testimony of the false prophet Paul for your "salvation". Those who are "saved"/"survive" during the day of the LORD (Joel 2:31-32) are those on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem. The "day of the LORD" happens at the beginnning of the millennium, not the end. If you haven't entered into "life" (Matthew 19:17) before death, don't expect to have anything to do with the "first resurrection" which is constituted by those who heed the testimony of Yeshua and keep the Commandments of God (Revelation 14:12) The "second death" addressed by Rev 20:6, refers to those not in the first resurrection, which happens 1000 years after the first resurrection. The second death is after the white throne judgment, regarding those not in the book of life, who are thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15). Those who escape the "second death" are those who "overcome" (Revelation 2:11). As for the "soul", it is a combination of dust and the breath of life from God. When you die, the breath of life returns to God, and is without a body, and cannot hear or speak.
What the false prophet Paul says in Romans 7:18, is "nothing good dwells in me". As for the law and the prophets (Matthew 5:17) being "fulfilled", that hasn't happened. The "day of the LORD" is still in the future, and it is a physical occurrence, whereas the "nations"/Gentiles will be "judged" (Joel 3:2). It is the Lord God who will do the judging, and after the judging, he will set up king David as their shepherd and prince/king (Ezekiel 34:20-24).
And another thing, the people are part of the building process of creation, not separate. If the people fail, creation fails. If a creator sets rules for the people it creates, it had better make sure those people will follow the rules. God didn't.
Elihoenai
Well-Known Member
John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
That's a split in mainstream Christianity you are talking about. Those that are Seeking the Original Christian Truth are only concerned with Salvation and Union with Elohim/God through Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ.
Elihoenai
Well-Known Member
Romans 14:5
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Not being convinced by others is a characteristic that is required for a True Christian. A True Christian is fully persuaded in their own mind.
Exactly, I could be a Devil Worshipper deceiving to lead astray. That's why every person must study and experience the Scriptures/Bible for themselves and not depend on second-hand accounts from others.
Yes, the leaders of all the different Churches claim to have the Truth and Billions of their congregations. The personal interpretations and opinions are because they don't want to do the requirements of the Original Christian Doctrine.
That's from your external perspective. How things appear to others is not a concern for True followers of Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ.
ElishaElijah
Return
You mean make robots and be a tyrant? Would rather give people the choice and ability to love or reject, also make a way back when they get lost. What an awesome God and Creator!
Elihoenai
Well-Known Member
John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
@Redemptionsong Do you have the Scripture that supports your statement that a "Saint is a Born Again Believer"? Are you saying that you are a Saint? Do you agree with Yeshua/Jesus when he instructs to be Born of Water and of the Spirit? You appear to be rejecting the requirement for John the Baptist water Baptism.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
Why would l agree? Your philosophy of life is based on subjectivism. You're asking me to choose between you and God! Is that a choice?
Can you not see that Adam's sin was like yours. He thought he knew better than God!
Subjective love is self-love. Objective love is true righteousness.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
What do you think is the difference between the righteousness of a man under the law, and the righteousness of a man under grace?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Let's ignore the verses that you quote for right now. How do you demonstrate that the Bible itself is reliable? That is a huge stumbling block that I have yet to see any theist explain about their holy book. What you are doing now sounds just like a Fantasy Fiction Debate. Arguing about whether Superman could The Flash in a race or other such wastes of time. (by the way, if there is no cheating the answer is Superman, it is always Superman).
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
No, l'm not rejecting John's baptism. Repentance is important, and is symbolised by the washing with water. Receiving the Holy Spirit is empowering, and is symbolised by fire. The two sides in baptism, human and divine, make up the one baptism.
I do believe that all who are sanctified by the Spirit through faith are saints.This includes all who lived by faith and hope in Christ in the OT.
There are numerous references to the saints.
Daniel 7:18. 'But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever'.
See Ephesians 2:18-22.
ElishaElijah
Return
God doesn’t need saving, we do. Adam wasn’t deceived Eve was. God doesn’t make mistakes, He is perfect. When do you believe your speculation will be revealed as true or false?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
How was Eve deceived? Since the Serpent was the only one that did not lie in that story it sounds as if you are claiming that either God or Adam lied to her.
ElishaElijah
Return
“But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.”
II Corinthians 11:3 NKJV
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Sorry, but that does not support you. That is just another believer in myth that like you appears to have misinterpreted those verses. You would need to find the Serpent's lies in Genesis, not in the New Testament.
ElishaElijah
Return
The Bible supports itself, it’s you who need the proper teacher. The Holy Spirit.
A split suggests two factions in Christianity. There are vastly more than that. Just look at Catholics versus Protestants. How many Protestants sects are there? Who knows. You have liberal to moderate to conservative to extremist in Christianity. That's a lot of disagreement. Everyone thinks they are saved. There's reason for doubt.
Is being mature and wise like being a robot? Are you a robot by driving the speed limit and following other rules? There's a reason teenagers need adult supervision and often get in trouble: they are immature and don't follow the rules. Adam and Eve acted like teenagers who were duped by an adult who took advantage of their immaturity and lack of wisdom.
That's not what the A&E story was about. They didn't understand the consequences.
ElishaElijah
Return
How do you know? You say they were like teenagers yet named all the animals, took care of the garden. Don’t think you thought that through.
Are you like you say they were, not understanding the consequences of your actions, especially rejecting God? Ever think maybe the serpent is more crafty than you think, has deceived you?
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Don't forget the global flood happened before we needed saving. The flood didn't fix anything either. Salvation hasn't fixed anything since. All salvation has done (since the Christians changed the meaning from the Jewish) was give a reason for believers to join a religion. There is nothing that suggests there is any salvation. The who set of ideas, from the Jesus myth to salvation itself, is absurd and implausible. The whole Jesus myth is Rube Goldberg type theology. It's all unnecessarily complex.
On top of that, many Christians behave as if they aren't all that convinced it's true. The more conservative the Christian the less like Jesus they behave. I'd think they would be bending over backwards to appear to be like Jesus, just to assure a place in heaven.
A box set.
Then why was Eve so easily duped? If God wanted them to be obedient, what happened when God created her?
If you are referring to my assessment, it will be revealed as true what God actually shows himself to be real and not imagined.