nPeace
Veteran Member
Who's cherry picking? You are.
Let's play point the finger, and see where that gets us.
How many pages do you plan on going at it?
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Let's play point the finger, and see where that gets us.
How many pages do you plan on going at it?
nPeace
Veteran Member
Rather than play "point the finger", you could instead try to meet the challenge to your baseless
claim.If the Tanakh stands on its own, give me the fulfillment of Ezekiel 37:24, 25.
nPeace
Veteran Member
I wonder how your Bible reads at Isaiah 28:16
therefore thus saith the Lord Jehovah, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner-stone of sure foundation: he that believeth shall not be in haste.
I wonder... When was that fulfilled.
(Romans 9:33) as it is written: “Look! I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, but the one who rests his faith on it will not be disappointed.”
(1 Peter 2:6) For it says in Scripture: “Look! I am laying in Zion a chosen stone, a precious foundation cornerstone, and no one exercising faith in it will ever be disappointed.”
Clearly, everyone reading the Bible, can see the prophets prophesied future blessings, which were later fulfilled in the Messiah.... Everyone except
Sheldon
Veteran Member
Obviously because it had been explained, and you were simply equivocating unnecessarily.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I quoted to you the verse where John literally uses the word "day of preperation" on the day Jesus is being tried by Pilate. This is obvious at face value that if Jesus is being executed on the day of perparation for Passover, then he cannot also be killed on Passover. Sheesh. There is no argument you can give against this.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
No, I'm not goint to list every verse in teh Tanakh that says "obey." If you really want all of those verses, feel free to good Strong's exhaustive concordance for the word obey.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I've explained to you that it is a useless venture to quote teh New Testament to me. How would you feel if I persistantly quoted Harry Potter to you? Do you see how fruitless it is?I wonder how your Bible reads at Isaiah 28:16
therefore thus saith the Lord Jehovah, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner-stone of sure foundation: he that believeth shall not be in haste.
I wonder... When was that fulfilled.
(Romans 9:33) as it is written: “Look! I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, but the one who rests his faith on it will not be disappointed.”
(1 Peter 2:6) For it says in Scripture: “Look! I am laying in Zion a chosen stone, a precious foundation cornerstone, and no one exercising faith in it will ever be disappointed.”
Clearly, everyone reading the Bible, can see the prophets prophesied future blessings, which were later fulfilled in the Messiah.... Everyone except
nPeace
Veteran Member
No wonder Jesus was incensed at the attitudes of the Jews. SIGH
Day of preparation for Passover. Correct.
WHAT PASSOVER?
THE ONE THAT FOLLOWED THE PASSOVER OF NISAN 14. THE ONE THAT STARTED ON NISAN 15 - THE FESTIVAL OF UNFERMENTED BREAD... ALSO CALLED PASSOVER.
Sorry for shouting, but that seems to do the trick when talking to half deaf people. Not saying you are half deaf, but my grandmother was, and she could not hear unless one shouted.
nPeace
Veteran Member
No need to do that.
What I have shown is that you verified that the Greek scriptures harmonize with the Hebrew scriptures, as shown by the fact that the Hebrew texts set things in motion, leading to the things mentioned in the Greek.
The Tanakh does not stand on its own. It needs the fulfilment... which the Greek scriptures supply.
Also, both the Hebrew and Greek contain elements of obedience and faith, but specific to the context.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Based on the fact that the OP specifically deals with the Bible, and the Bible is all 66 books - "New Testament" included. and you have challenged the Bible, then if it is useless to quote the "New Testament", that means either you made a mistake, and want to retract you posts in this thread, and leave, or you need to acquire an understanding of what the Bible is... that it's not the Tanakh.
Also, since the OP specifically states... the strongest evidence that the Bible is true, is it's internal evidence... then quoting the "New Testament" is necessary in proving what is stated.
If you don't want to take a look at what the "New Testament" says, then you are in the wrong thread.
Did you make a mistake?
If I challenged a claim made about Harry Potter, then I am obligated to listen to all quotes given from Harry Potter, in its defense, yes.
Otherwise, I should retract my claim, and flee, since my challenge is totally demolished, as I can't support it.
Is that what you want to do then?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I'm sorry, but the day of preparation is the day that the lambs are offered. Not the first night of passover.
No wonder Jesus was incensed at the attitudes of the Jews. SIGH
Day of preparation for Passover. Correct.
WHAT PASSOVER?
THE ONE THAT FOLLOWED THE PASSOVER OF NISAN 14. THE ONE THAT STARTED ON NISAN 15 - THE FESTIVAL OF UNFERMENTED BREAD... ALSO CALLED PASSOVER.
Sorry for shouting, but that seems to do the trick when talking to half deaf people. Not saying you are half deaf, but my grandmother was, and she could not hear unless one shouted.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Excuse me?
What are you talking about now... Passover on Nisan 14, or Nisan 15?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
The day of preparation is the day the lambs are sacrificed, before the evening of the Passover's Seder meal. As to the exact line up with the dates in Nisan, I don't want to open my mouth and give misinformation in ignorance. I've sent an email to my rabbi to ask.
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nPeace
Veteran Member
I thought I responded to this yesterday . I don't know what happened.
Would "before the evening of the Passover's Seder meal" be Nisan 13?
Did you get a response from your rabbi?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
The Passover Seder meal starts just after sundown, the beginning of the new day. The "before" period would be the morning and afternoon prior to sunset.
No, for whatever reason, my rabbi never wrote me back.
I made an inquiry at Ask the Rabbi at Chabad.org. It should be a couple of days before I get a reply.
Thank you for your patience.
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joelr
Well-Known Member
The 11 or so books of Tolkien's world are incredibly harmonious and has themes running through the entire series. It covers thousands of years and the lives of many characters while keeping themes of good vs evil, redemption, many themes taken from Biblical tales and so on. It doesn't make it true. Fiction can be all those things. This is just fiction from one man.
Yet he did all this:
Tolkien's influences in creating his Middle-earth books included his profession, philology, studying medieval literature; his religion, Christianity; mythology and archaeology; Old English poetry, especially Beowulf; and his own experience of childhood in the English countryside, and as a soldier in the First World War. Major inputs to his stories were his invented languages, and maps of Middle-earth. His books contained not just prose but poetry and artwork.
His themes remained consistent throughout his work.
Hmm, yet Hebrew Bible professors like Francesca Stavrakopoulou call it "just really good literature" and feel no need to say it can only be produced by a divinity? Oddly enough all of the Quran apologists swear by this same apologetic. "The Quran is a modern miracle, it can only have been produced by a God!".
Yep, Hindus claim the Vedic text are also proof of divine knowledge.
And when we go over this evidence you suddenly have every excuse in the book why scholars don't agree. Are they possessed by Satan?
There is no external evidence for the Bible being true. There are some places mentioned that are real. There are many stories that are enlarged or not true.
The historicity of the Bible is 100% clear. The OT is Mesopotamian myths. Late OT and NT, Greek, Persian, Roman myths. That is one thing that is very harmonious.
The Gospels are anonymous. Matthew/Luke sourced Mark.
All unproven myths.
Islam are using the same apologetics you use for Christianity.
Scientific? Is the universe being created out of the cosmic sea and forming the 7 heavens science? Hellenistic savior demigods are science?
Historical? Well, we do have another PhD Biblical historian who has a peer-reviewed book supporting mythicism.
Books | Raphael Lataster
Questioning the Historicity of Jesus: Why a Philosophical Analysis Elucidates the Historical Discourse (2019)
Raphael Lataster holds a PhD (Studies in Religion) from the University of Sydney, and lectures there and at other institutions. His main academic research interests include Philosophy of Religion, Christian origins, and alternative god-concepts such as pantheism and pandeism.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I find your arguments lacking. First of all, not all of the bible is history. There are songs, myths, proverbs, books of law... Secondly, the part of the Bible that is intended as history is not necessarily reliable. Think of the Iliad. Troy really existed. The Trojan war really happened. But did it happen exactly as portrayed in the book? No. History mixes with legend quite easily. So you are going to encounter archeological finds that correspond with the Bible. This does NOT prove that the Bible is historically accurate in all regards.The Bible is True
The Bible is a collection of documents (primary source), written by some 40 individuals (some claim more than 50), over a period of 1600 years. Yet it is harmonious from the first dot of ink, to the last, having a message linked by one thread, running through from beginning to end.
Hence, the strongest evidence that the Bible is true, is it's internal evidence... which is then supported by external evidence - historical; scientific... etc.
Never mind the ridiculers, and those who lack understanding. The Bible is a product of a force greater than currently known to the scientific community. 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21
Right. The examples...
Historical
One of the most prominent and historically significant Assyrian kings, Tiglath-Pileser is accepted to have written the Nimrud Tablet K.3751, also known as Kalhu Palace Summary Inscription 7, an inscription on a clay tablet dated c.733 BC. The tablet describes the first 17 years of Tiglath-Pileser III's reign, and contains the first known archeological reference to Judah.
It records that he received tribute from "Jehoahaz of Judah". Also identified in royal bullae belonging to Ahaz himself and his son Hezekiah - characters later discovered to have existed, and been associated with the events described, both in the Bible, and extra-Biblical sources.
What this means, is that we have both a primary and secondary source - The later supporting the former, confirming accuracy, and credibility.
Bear in mind, this is only one example of many.
How does Harry Potter compare?
Harry Potter is not written as a true life account, but as fiction.
In mid-1990, [Joanne K. Rowling] was on a train delayed by four hours from Manchester to London, when the characters Harry Potter, Ron Weasley, and Hermione Granger came plainly into her mind. Having no pen or paper allowed her to fully explore the characters and their story in her imagination before she reached her flat and began to write.
The Bible accounts are written as history, from actual historians and keepers of historical records.
The writers often wrote... "This is a history...", or "This is the history of..."
Take this one example ...
Luke 1:1-4 - Seeing that many have undertaken to compile an account of the facts that are given full credence among us, just as these were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and attendants of the message, I resolved also, because I have traced all things from the start with accuracy, to write them to you in logical order, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know fully the certainty of the things that you have been taught orally.
This honesty is evident throughout Luke's record.
(Luke 3:1, 2) 1 In the 15th year of the reign of Ti·beʹri·us Caesar, when Pontius Pilate was governor of Ju·deʹa, Herod was district ruler of Galʹi·lee, Philip his brother was district ruler of the country of It·u·raeʹa and Trach·o·niʹtis, and Ly·saʹni·as was district ruler of Ab·i·leʹne, 2 in the days of chief priest Anʹnas and of Caʹia·phas, God’s declaration came to John the son of Zech·a·riʹah in the wilderness.
These detailed historical accounts are confirmed by discoveries made centuries after.
Acts 19:23-28, 33-38
23 At that time quite a disturbance arose concerning The Way. 24 For a man named Demetrius, a silversmith who made silver shrines of Artemis, brought considerable profit to the craftsmen. 25 He gathered them and others who worked at such things and said: “Men, you well know that from this business comes our prosperity. 26 Now you see and hear how, not only in Ephesus but in nearly all the province of Asia, this Paul has persuaded a considerable crowd and turned them to another opinion, saying that the gods made by hands are not really gods. 27 Moreover, the danger exists not only that this business of ours will come into disrepute but also that the temple of the great goddess Artemis will be viewed as nothing, and she who is worshipped in the whole province of Asia and the inhabited earth will be deprived of her magnificence.” 28 Hearing this and becoming full of anger, the men began crying out: “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!”
33 So they brought Alexander out of the crowd, the Jews shoving him forward, and Alexander motioned with his hand and wanted to make his defense to the people. 34 But when they recognized that he was a Jew, they all started shouting in unison for about two hours: “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!” 35 When the city recorder had finally quieted the crowd, he said: “Men of Ephesus, who really is there among men who does not know that the city of the Ephesians is the temple keeper of the great Artemis and of the image that fell from heaven? 36 Since these things are indisputable, you should keep calm and not act rashly. 37 For you have brought these men here who are neither robbers of temples nor blasphemers of our goddess. 38 So if Demetrius and the craftsmen with him do have a case against someone, court days are held and there are proconsuls; let them bring charges against one another.
The Temple of Artemis at Ephesus was situated in the ancient city of Ephesus, which can be found near Selçuk, a town in modern Turkey.
The Temple of Artemis at Ephesus was destroyed and rebuilt at least three times, notably damaged by a flood and by fire, and was finally torched by the Goths in 268 AD and was probably not fully rebuilt after that.
These facts are as grand as the Temple of Artemis at Ephesus
The Bible writers were familiar with the facts, because they were there, and unlike Harry Potter, no fictional characters have been found mixed in with the facts.
To the contrary, those characters that have been claimed by critics to be fictional, have been discovered to be factual, to the dismay of the critic, and the credit of the authors.
City of David Top Finds #1: King Hezekiah's Royal Seal
City of David Top Finds #8: House of David Inscription
The writers of the Bible never said that they made up characters and events in order to make money.
I am telling the truth in Christ; I am not lying, as my conscience bears witness with me in holy spiritTheir Candor is seen throughout. (More on that later)
- Paul (Romans 9:1)
Coming up too, is the Scientific evidence of the accuracy of the Bible.
Let's discuss what we have so far.
@AppieB Welcome.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Okay I just got the email from the Chabad rabbi.
The feast of unleavened bread begins on Nisan 14. It is on the afternoon of this day of preparation that the lambs were sacrificed. That evening, Nisan 15 (remember the day begins at sundown) was the Seder Meal, which was the Passover.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
The Bible is reliable, where history is concerned. My point.
So is marvel comics and the stories about Superman.
nPeace
Veteran Member
Appreciate that. Thanks.
Is that a teaching among all Jews, or different sects?
Could you outline in detail, so I can follow.
You are saying the evening of Nisan 14 begins the feast of unleavened bread?
Are you saying until the afternoon of that day preparation is made? Can you outline details of what is prepared, and for what time.
You said "That evening, Nisan 15 (remember the day begins at sundown) was the Seder Meal, which was the Passover"
I'm a bit confused here. Perhaps you can clarify.
Nisan 14 to Nisan 15 Sundown... that's one day. Is that Passover? Is it the feast of unleavened bread?
So does Passover begin Nisan 14, or Nisan 15?
Could you also use Leviticus 23:4-8 in explaining?
Thanks for taking the time.