Is Easter Pagan?

Augustus said:

Yes, that's what I meant. Easter hares were German, bunnies was the Americanisation of the trend.[...]

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I keep forgetting that English actually makes a distinction between the two (technically, so does German, but it's extremely common to call a rabbit Hase even though they're technically Kaninchen).

Augustus said:

So a 1st/2nd C holy day from the Middle East is magically based on some Anglo-Saxon goddess, or a 17th C German tradition about hares is purportedly the result of Saxon Eostre worship from 1000 years previous based on completely made up characteristics of Eostre worship (she was a fertility goddess; symbolised by rabbits, eggs, etc).

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Okay, you got me there. Yea, the whole Éostre thing is probably so far removed from the actual Easter festival and its symbolism that it doesn't make much sense to make that connection at all.

Kooky said:

I keep forgetting that English actually makes a distinction between the two (technically, so does German, but it's extremely common to call a rabbit Hase even though they're technically Kaninchen).

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Reminds me of tier in German being deer in English, with the latter referring to a specific animal, where before deer/deor in Anglo-Saxon just meant animal. Now, we have really no AS word/Germanic native word for 'animal'.

Augustus said:

But when we make the claim "A comes from B", we should have good reason to believe it, not simply claiming "unless you can prove A didn't come from B, then you should assume A comes from B no matter how good reasons are to think otherwise".

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well I guess I sort of half-chalk it up to a failure to really believe that strongly in human creativity, or some domains of it. I'm not sure. I am skeptical, I think, of our ability to really create things that are truly novel. Given that when there is a store of history and culture to draw on, people will look at those things for tools and material. It seems like its in large part what we evolved to do. For example, I don't care how much new technology or whatever we have, I still that life seems socially engineered by the hand of history and culture, all of it very old

Rival said:

Reminds me of tier in German being deer in English, with the latter referring to a specific animal, where before deer/deor in Anglo-Saxon just meant animal. Now, we have really no AS word/Germanic native word for 'animal'.

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That's those pesky Normans and their dastardly French loanwords.
But yea, from what I've read this tendency to have general words become more specific over time shows up all the time in languages.

Also common seems to be the reverse, where more specific terms over time come to be used for the more general thing. For example, I've read that the English word dog once referred to a specific breed, and was then generalized to mean all kinds of dogs, whereas the original, more general hound became to specifically mean hunting dogs, and now seems to be largely an archaism.

Interestingly, German has retained the original root word in Hund, which is the general word for dog.

Kooky said:

That's those pesky Normans and their dastardly French loanwords.
But yea, from what I've read this tendency to have general words become more specific over time shows up all the time in languages.

Also common seems to be the reverse, where more specific terms over time come to be used for the more general thing. For example, I've read that the English word dog once referred to a specific breed, and was then generalized to mean all kinds of dogs, whereas the original, more general hound became to specifically mean hunting dogs, and now seems to be largely an archaism.

Interestingly, German has retained the original root word in Hund, which is the general word for dog.

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I could talk languages all day, and you're welcome to my Middle English thread

Middle English and Old English also use the y- or ge- prefix for past-tense. This reminded me of the German usage.

Riders said:

Peter Cotton Tail easter eggs etc......................

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When we carefully examine the holidays which are observed by the people of nominal Christianity, we find included among them a spring festival, as you have rightly stated, called “Easter”. A superficial examination of the time in which it occurs reveals that it is usually observed in close proximity to Israel’s Passover. Presumably everyone who ever read the written accounts by the four evangelists (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) describing the suffering and death of Yahshua the Messiah will recall that His death occurred in connection with the Passover, Matthew 26:2.

Yahshua and His disciples observed the Passover, Matthew 26:19-20 and Mark 14:16-17. Luke 22:13-16 explains, “And they went and found as he said to them: and they made ready the passover. And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the apostles with him. And he said to them, With desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer: for I say to you, I shall not eat it, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of Yahweh.”

The Passover Memorial is to be observed forever, Exodus 12:24, “And you shall observe this thing for an ordinance to you and to your sons forever”.

Yahshua the Messiah is our Passover sacrifice for us; therefore we are commanded upon Apostolic authority to keep the feast, even in this New Testament era. Please read 1 Corinthians 5:6-8. There you’ll find a command to keep the Passover.

If we peruse a concordance to locate the word “Easter” in the Bible, we learn that it is found only one time in the King James Version, in Acts 12:4. A close examination of the Greek text yields the fact that the word “Easter” is not found there! Neither is it found in the Aramaic (Syriac) New Testament. Both texts read “pascha” which is derived from the Hebrew word pesach. It means Passover.

History reveals that the primitive Apostolic assembly kept the Passover rather than the spring holy days which are currently observed by nominal Christianity. Additionally, the sects that trace their history to the Apostolic assembly also kept the Passover Memorial of the Messiah’s death. It was only after pagan corruption had thoroughly permeated these groups that Good Friday and Easter were substituted for the observance of the Passover and Days of Unleavened Bread.

Please read Eusebius’ Ecclesiastical History, chapter XXIV, p. 208.

There is so much to say about the pagan roots of Easter and why it is not Biblical, but for lack of time I will leave it there. I will be observing the Passover next week at the appointed time. I am in the process of removing all the leaven from my home and property. During this time we remember our own Exodus from sin, we remember Israel's Exodus from Egyptian slavery, but most importantly, we remember Yahshua's cruel death upon the tree, and his tremendous sacrifice to which he laid down his life for each one of us, knowing we would need a Saviour to save us and bring us to Yahweh.

Rival said:

I could talk languages all day, and you're welcome to my Middle English thread

Middle English and Old English also use the y- or ge- prefix for past-tense. This reminded me of the German usage.

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I would definitely participate if I knew anything at all about Middle English! Sadly, I do not.

Fun fact on the subject of past tense:
The English present perfect form is equivalent to the German past tense form (Perfekt).
The equivalent of the English past simple form shows up in German as another past tense form (Präteritum or Imperfekt).

Now, any linguist worth their salt would think that these different past tense forms would have different meaning, e.g. by signifying different aspects of the past, such as a past imperfect and a past perfect.
Joke's on them - there is no difference in meaning between the two German past tense forms!
Which one you use is an entirely stylistic choice. So why have two different past tense forms at all? *shrug*
To quote myself every time I explain these things to my students: "That's just German, it doesn't have to make sense!"

I feel genuine pity for anybody who has to learn German grammar the hard way (i.e. at all).

Kooky said:

I would definitely participate if I knew anything at all about Middle English! Sadly, I do not.

Fun fact on the subject of past tense:
The English present perfect form is equivalent to the German past tense form (Perfekt).
The equivalent of the English past simple form shows up in German as another past tense form (Präteritum or Imperfekt).

Now, any linguist worth their salt would think that these different past tense forms would have different meaning, e.g. by signifying different aspects of the past, such as a past imperfect and a past perfect.
Joke's on them - there is no difference in meaning between the two German past tense forms!
Which one you use is an entirely stylistic choice. So why have two different past tense forms at all? *shrug*
To quote myself every time I explain these things to my students: "That's just German, it doesn't have to make sense!"

I feel genuine pity for anybody who has to learn German grammar the hard way (i.e. at all).

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Corpus of Middle English Prose and Verse (umich.edu) See here for examples of Middle English (from roughly 1100 to 1500 ce). It would be cool to compare with another Germanic language.

"GIET is an oðer derne senne ðe me and maniȝe oðre saule hafð beswiken. Hie hatte tristicia, þat is, sarinesse. Þes is an of ðe heued-sennes, ðeih hie dierne bie. Hie is icleped sarinesse, tristicia mortemSanctus Paulus operante, 'sarinesse deað wurchende,' for ðan hire ofþingþ of alle gode ðe aȝunnen bieð for godes luue te donne. Ðes awerȝede gast, hie makeð ðane religiuse man, ðe alle woreld-þing for godes luue hafð forlaten, sari and drieri and heui on godes wǫrkes, and ofte doð ofþenchen þat he æure swo haueð idon. Al swo he deð þo men ðe sennen habbeð forhaten te laten, and swa hie doð iec ðo menn ðe habbeð gode behaten god te donne, oðer halȝe to sechen, oðer to fasten, oðer sum oðer god te donne. On alle wise he fandeð hu he muȝe gode weorkes letten, oððe mid ofðanche and mid sarinesse and unbleðeliche*. [ð in text, d̄ in note. Added by another hand.] hes don [don]."