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Something my dad asked

nPeace

Veteran Member
Please show me where i askec if biblical archaeology is a science?
I can't show you where you askec, because I have no idea how you askec. :p
Smile CM. It's a joke.

What i was asking if it was scientifically evidenced is the meat and potatoes, not the plate its laid out on.
Okay. Thanks for ... urrr... clarifying?
I have no idea what you are talking about. I am no chef, you see.

BTW, By why is it that people who cite that bible archaeology is true so the bible is true never accept that harry potter is true just because Hogwarts (Alnwick castle) exists
I don't know why people cite that "bible archaeology is true so the bible is true". You will have to ask them.
For me, it's the other way around. You see, Biblical archaeology is one tiny bit of supportive evidence. What it does is confirm what I already know, based on other evidence.
So it goes this way, Biblical archaeology is true, only because the Bible is true. (Biblical archaeological is not always accurate, as it at times relies on the subjective opinions of fallible men.)

To give an example... Welcome to my new thread.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I can't show you where you askec, because I have no idea how you askec. :p
Smile CM. It's a joke.

Not really funny when you have been faced with such "humour" all your life and is the primary reason i left the church in the first place and began my search for why...
Thanks for the clarification though


Okay. Thanks for ... urrr... clarifying?
I have no idea what you are talking about. I am no chef, you see.

Colloquialisms obviously don't translate so well. From Google "If you refer to the meat and potatoes of something, you mean its most basic, simple, and essential parts."

I don't know why people cite that "bible archaeology is true so the bible is true". You will have to ask them.

I did, like you they don't know.

So it goes this way, Biblical archaeology is true, only because the Bible is true.

Nope, very wrong. The archaeology of the place and period would exist whether or not the bible had been compiled copied and compiled from various snippets many years after jesus death
 
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nPeace

Veteran Member
Not really funny when you have been faced with such "humour" all your life and is the primary reason i left the church in the first place and began my search for why...
Thanks for the clarification though
Sorry. I thought it was a typo. My sincere apology.
Got to be careful with my jokes.

Colloquialisms obviously don't translate so well. From Google "If you refer to the meat and potatoes of something, you mean its most basic, simple, and essential parts."


I did, like you they don't know.
:(

Nope, very wrong. The archaeology of the place and period would exist whether or not the bible had been compiled copied and compiled from various snippets many years after jesus death
Nope. You are wrong.
There would be no trace of George Washington for anyone to find, if he did not exist.
There would be no bird fossils if birds never existed, Archaeologists could dig forever, they would find nothing.

The reason they found Hezekiah's tunnel, is because he built it, as it was truthfully recorded... in the Bible.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Sorry. I thought it was a typo. My sincere apology.
Got to be careful with my jokes.


:(


Nope. You are wrong.
There would be no trace of George Washington for anyone to find, if he did not exist.
There would be no bird fossils if birds never existed, Archaeologists could dig forever, they would find nothing.

The reason they found Hezekiah's tunnel, is because he built it, as it was truthfully recorded... in the Bible.

I'm dyslexic, you didn't know, but yes, you should take more care over who you mock. As i say, that is the reason i left the church in the first place.

There would be a trace of government buildings if Georgia Washington didn't exis
Bo one is denying some locations mentioned in the bible existed. They would still have existed if the bible had never been written. In fact there are plenty of places that are known to have existed that are not mentioned in the bible
What book would be with reading if it didn't have some elements of incidental truth, which is why i mentioned harry potter. Ive been to Alnwick castle (Hogwarts), it exists, I've seen it and touched it. By your logic that should mean that harry potter should exist.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
I'm dyslexic, you didn't know, but yes, you should take more care over who you mock. As i say, that is the reason i left the church in the first place.

There would be a trace of government buildings if Georgia Washington didn't exis
Bo one is denying some locations mentioned in the bible existed. They would still have existed if the bible had never been written. In fact there are plenty of places that are known to have existed that are not mentioned in the bible
What book would be with reading if it didn't have some elements of incidental truth, which is why i mentioned harry potter. Ive been to Alnwick castle (Hogwarts), it exists, I've seen it and touched it. By your logic that should mean that harry potter should exist.
Hezekiah is not a place. His father is not a place. Sennacherib's conquest of Judah is not a place. :eek: You guys to try hard at denying, don't you.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Hezekiah is not a place. His father is not a place. Sennacherib's conquest of Judah is not a place. :eek: You guys to try hard at denying, don't you.

And some incidental people existed, this wr know because of independent, 3rd party evidence, but as far as i know people are NOT archaeology which is what we were discussing.

So why do you feel the need to move the goalposts???

But OK. You bring people into the conversation, do you have any independent, 3rd party evidence to suggest jesus actually existed as described in the bible?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
And some incidental people existed, this wr know because of independent, 3rd party evidence, but as far as i know people are NOT archaeology which is what we were discussing.

So why do you feel the need to move the goalposts???

But OK. You bring people into the conversation, do you have any independent, 3rd party evidence to suggest jesus actually existed as described in the bible?
Strawman.
I mentioned people before you posted that.
You missed it? Then just click previous at the bottom of the page. :oops: Wrong thread.
Just click the link I sent, and enjoy. :)
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Strawman.
I mentioned people before you posted that.
You missed it? Then just click previous at the bottom of the page. :oops: Wrong thread.
Just click the link I sent, and enjoy. :)

Nope, we were talking bible archaeology, i don't give a damn what you were talking about with other people. Do you think i am in the habit of stalking you to read all your posts.

And as i stated after you moved the goal posts. Yes some people existed too.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
@Frank Goad ,
What do you believe about the demons? Do you think they exist?

I want your point of view.

Our opinions, ie., points of view, really have no bearing on what is reality, if we are deceptively influenced. There can be all kinds of evidence, but if the interpretations are wrong, then our conclusions will be inaccurate. Right?

So what do you think? Are demons real?
And if so, what do they do?

(After you answer, I will present some extra-Biblical evidence and how it’s related to Biblical evidence.)
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
@Frank Goad ,
What do you believe about the demons? Do you think they exist?

I want your point of view.

Our opinions, ie., points of view, really have no bearing on what is reality, if we are deceptively influenced. There can be all kinds of evidence, but if the interpretations are wrong, then our conclusions will be inaccurate. Right?

So what do you think? Are demons real?
And if so, what do they do?

(After you answer, I will present some extra-Biblical evidence and how it’s related to Biblical evidence.)

I believe demons are real.And can kill people like in Job 1:18-19.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I'd like to see some empirical evidence of invisible, incorporeal creatures before I accept them as real.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
I believe demons are real.And can kill people like in Job 1:18-19.
Well, first, let’s try to be accurate & discuss your comment. You said, “demons…. can kill people like in Job 1:18-19.”

But the account doesn’t mention demons, does it? The account only mentions Satan, at Job 1:6-12 & Job 2:1-7.

No demons. The point I’m making, is we need to be accurate when talking about the Bible. The Bible itself says @ 1 Corinthians 4:6…“do not go beyond the things that are written.” And Proverbs 2:11, according to some versions, encourage us to use “sound judgement and good sense” (Contemporary English Version), “intelligence” (Lamsa Aramaic Translation), “thoughtfulness” (Young’s Literal Translation; per Proverbs 2:11 Parallel: Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee:), or “thinking ability” (New World Translation on JW.org) to arrive at accurate conclusions about anything.

(I will get into *evidence* for demons, near the end of this post.)

But certainly, as you implied, Hebrews 2:14 informs us that the Devil does have “the means to cause death.” Jesus supported that idea, when he called Satan “a manslayer” at John 8:44.
Regarding the existence of demons …we have to consider what the (Biblical) Scriptures say on this.


The first instance is at Genesis 6:1-4, where it mentions “sons of the true God”; this phrase is only used a few times in the Hebrew Scriptures — twice at Genesis 6:2-4, Job 1:6, Job 2:1, Job 38:7, and (“sons of God”) at Psalms 89:6 — where it only applies to spirit creatures. On top of this, we have the Apostle Peter’s words at 2 Peter 2:4-5 about the “angels who sinned” in Noah’s day, and Jude’s statement at Jude 1:6 about “angels that forsook their proper dwelling place”.

(Many still claim, though, that these “sons of God” are descendants of Seth, but why claim that, when there is no evidence for that? IMO, it’s part of the evidence supporting the existence of forces working against God and deceiving everyone: Satan and the demons. -Revelation 12:9)


If we analyze what are the Bible’s very first comments about death, we find something simple to understand…

We agree that God is love, and He cannot lie, right?

So let’s examine God’s first words on death at Genesis 2:17…what did Jehovah say to Adam?

“….but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for in the day you eat from it you will surely die.”

Now, if the dead go to ‘another realm to live’, which is what almost everyone believes about death…then how come Jehovah God didn’t tell Adam that?? I mean, if that is the truth?


So God told Adam, ‘you will die,’ but provided no further information!

And omission of relevant facts is a form of lying.


The question then is, “What did Adam already know about death?”
Since God gave him no other information, Adam must have seen the animals die. What did he observe from animals dying? Nothing, just them decaying. They became dust.

Isn’t that what Jehovah told Adam would happen to him, when he died? (Genesis 3:19) And this is supported by other Scripture. —Ecclesiastes 3:19-20.

[Romans 12:1-2 implies the need for us to use our “power of reason.” (Some versions say “reasonable service”, an ambiguous phrase, to me.)]

***Continued from yesterday***

There are quite a few more Bible passages which corroborates this idea…


One is Daniel 12:2, which says “many who sleep in the ground of dust will awake.”

Sleep is a figurative description of the dead, and it’s adequate to a point; there are several similarities between sleep and death, but there’s one big difference: we can awaken from sleep on our own, or someone else wake us. But with death, the Bible states only the future Resurrection (John 6:44; Acts of the Apostles 24:15) can do that!


But if you think about it: why would the Bible promise a future resurrection of the dead, if the dead were already living ‘in another realm’? That doesn’t make any sense!


So the dead are dead.


Now here’s the evidence for demons (well, a big part of it anyways):



Do you know how many people claim to have spoken or currently speak with their dead loved ones? Through spirit mediums, Ouija boards, or other means? Some highly respected & rational-thinking people get involved with these things! Or maybe they claim to have seen entities that are supposed to be ghosts of the dead, as in Lincoln’s ghost

Lincoln's ghost - Wikipedia ??

But the dead can’t do this, if they’re “not aware” of anything! Ecclesiastes 9:5
So who must be the sources behind these 1000’s of documented individual experiences?

Beyond the fact that this deception is relatively easy to pull off (because humans want to believe their dead loved ones are still living), there is another aspect of this ‘dead-are-living’ claim that we can reason on. I’ll get into that, tomorrow.
Just keep an open mind about these things; for this is a deception of great magnitude…. It is global. Revelation 12:9 underscores this.


I hope we can discuss this further..

 
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Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
I'd like to see some empirical evidence of invisible, incorporeal creatures before I accept them as real.
Yes, I understand.
But being that these entities are invisible, their person can’t be observed. And frankly, neither do they want to be observed. Not as themselves, anyways.

But we can discern some actions and events of which they are the source.

What evidence would you accept?
Since we can’t observe them, and we’re told their nature is to mislead / deceive (so experiments can’t be duplicated), what else is there? Empirically speaking?

I guess that’s why most evidence that is related, caught on video, or photographed, is always of a personal nature.

I’m not saying that every video or photograph taken, is evidence… there are frauds out there, for sure… but there have been quite a few people known as rational thinkers, past and present, who admitted to such encounters, in disregard of their reputation.


Have a good day.
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
But the dead can’t do this, if they’re “not aware” of anything! Ecclesiastes 9:5
So who must be the sources behind these 1000’s of documented individual experiences?

And yet...

I can see the dead, hear the dead speak, talk to the dead, and I feel the presence of spirits everywhere I go, and I've been able to do these things since I was six years old. I've also helped a few lost and confused earthbound human spirits cross over into the light.

I don't need a Ouija or any other ghost hunting device to speak with the dead or see the dead. I can speak with the spirits directly, and I can see them just as I see living people. Also, I've repeatedly gone to well known haunted locations in order to collect tangible evidence to help me validate what I personally experience with the dead. I take this very seriously, and I've invested a lot of my time and my finances into being as thorough as possible whenever I'm investigating a haunted location or wherever else I am when I feel the presence of spirits, see them and hear them speak. In fact, you've seen some of my evidence of paranormal activity in this sub-forum. FWIW, I don't begrudge you or anyone else for not believing in the paranormal. It's a personal choice, and I respect that.

To each his (or her) own has been my motto for a long time. It's what I say whenever a Christian tells me that they've had wonderful experiences as a Christian, while my life as a devout Christian was a living hell. As far as believing in the paranormal, I firmly believe that seeing is believing. I've seen it time and time again with skeptics, which includes my husband, who was once a skeptic himself.
 
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Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
And yet...

I can see the dead, hear the dead speak, talk to the dead, and I feel the presence of spirits everywhere I go, and I've been able to do these things since I was six years old. I've also helped a few lost and confused earthbound human spirits cross over into the light.

I don't need a Ouija or any other ghost hunting device to speak with the dead or see the dead. I can speak with the spirits directly, and I can see them just as I see living people. Also, I've repeatedly gone to well known haunted locations in order to collect tangible evidence to help me validate what I personally experience with the dead. I take this very seriously, and I've invested a lot of my time and my finances into being as thorough as possible whenever I'm investigating a haunted location or wherever else I am when I feel the presence of spirits, see them and hear them speak. In fact, you've seen some of my evidence of paranormal activity in this sub-forum. FWIW, I don't begrudge you or anyone else for not believing in the paranormal. It's a personal choice, and I respect that.

To each his (or her) own has been my motto for a long time. It's what I say whenever a Christian tells me that they've had wonderful experiences as a Christian, while my life as a devout Christian was a living hell. As far as believing in the paranormal, I firmly believe that seeing is believing. I've seen it time and time again with skeptics, which includes my husband, who was once a skeptic himself.

Yes, I know you’ve had experiences with spirits. I don’t doubt you at all.

And I’m glad you’ve never been hurt; many have been...

Have you ever read about cultures that practice ancestor worship? Some have been doing so for millennia!

I’ve studied a lot about it. There is quite a disparity in customs & rites, but fear is often the main emotion displayed among those involved. Why? I mean, why would one need to fear their dead grandparents? Or for that matter, any of their ancestors?

(All are dead now, but my grandparents loved me!)


As the expression goes, “something is rotten in the state of Denmark.”
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
Yes, I know you’ve had experiences with spirits. I don’t doubt you at all.

And I’m glad you’ve never been hurt; many have been...

Thank you for your response, Hockey Cowboy. And no, I've never been hurt by a spirit because I don't provoke as some paranormal investigators do. Now, I have been pushed, but none of these occurrences was done with malicious intent. It was simply the spirit's way of letting me know that they're there. I don't provoke the spirits because I think that's incredibly disrespectful to the dead, and I'm in their territory and I respect that. The old adage, "You'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" is a good rule of thumb while investigating a haunted location. The spirits are more willing to corporate with you if you're respectful towards them. And for the record, I can't feel sorry for a paranormal investigator who gets hurt by a spirit after provoking the spirit. They had it coming.

Have you ever read about cultures that practice ancestor worship? Some have been doing so for millennia!

I’ve studied a lot about it. There is quite a disparity in customs & rites, but fear is often the main emotion displayed among those involved. Why? I mean, why would one need to fear their dead grandparents? Or for that matter, any of their ancestors?

Yes, I have heard of certain cultures worshiping their ancestors, but I don't know anything specific about it.
 
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