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I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things

Triumph

Triumph

FREEDOM OF SPEECH
Wildswanderer said:
I do have faith in the love of God and that's why I trust his word that the new Jerusalem will come to earth...if you don't think God can remake this planet anew, your god is too small.
Click to expand...
Please understand that NEW "Jerusalem " is the Bible that proves the OLD Jerusalem was the wrong religion(s) filled with people that did not understand God and did not have the correct written Word to be able to understand the Laws of GOD. The Laws of GOD are be Baptized for removal of sins and Love people even if they disagree with you, even if they act like an enemy. Treat people like you want to be treated. No one wants to die in war so no one should kill people. Then there is no vengeance because there is only compassion and mercy with tolerance for people that do not think the same way. God alone judges and God alone requires people to be allowed their entire natural life to learn the truth with love and compassion as they learn.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Wildswanderer said:
Because he already did it once and he promises to do it again.
Click to expand...
God never came to earth.
Jesus came to earth but Jesus is not God. Jesus is a Manifestation of God.

1 Timothy 3-16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Jesus never promised to return to earth. Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no longer in the world.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Triumph said:
Please understand that NEW "Jerusalem " is the Bible that proves the OLD Jerusalem was the wrong religion(s) filled with people that did not understand God and did not have the correct written Word to be able to understand the Laws of GOD.
Click to expand...
That's true.
 
Triumph

Triumph

FREEDOM OF SPEECH
Trailblazer said:
God never came to earth.
Jesus came to earth but Jesus is not God. Jesus is a Manifestation of God.

1 Timothy 3-16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Jesus never promised to return to earth. Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no longer in the world.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Click to expand...

Please do not quote a false Apostle intent in deceiving people. Paul will say some true things to make his lies he inserts in his written words believed. Timothy is written by Paul.
Jesus is not God in the flesh unless you realize it is LIKE an ambassador represents his nation. The ambassador is viewed as the nation bringing the information the nation wants shared with other nations. God would not have whipped anyone which is the reason Jesus said "why call me good, only God is good". Jesus serves God and knows only what God allows Jesus to know.
Jesus left Earth to go to another planet. People must be educated enough to know there are other planets in this universe that are capable of sustaining our designed type of biological life.
Jesus finished preaching which is the work given to him but it was only "finished" because Jesus knew he faced his unwanted death by Jews. Jesus said, " learn I desire mercy and not sacrifice". But Jesus was sacrificed anyway because Jews including Paul did not believe what Jesus taught.
 
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Triumph

Triumph

FREEDOM OF SPEECH
Triumph said:
Please do not quote a false Apostle intent in deceiving people. Paul will say some true things to make his lies he inserts in his written words believed. Timothy is written by Paul.
Jesus is not God in the flesh unless you realize it is LIKE an ambassador represents his nation. The ambassador is viewed as the nation bringing the information the nation wants shared with other nations. God would not have whipped anyone which is the reason Jesus said "why call me good, only God is good". Jesus serves God and knows only what God allows Jesus to know.
Jesus left Earth to go to another planet. People must be educated enough to know there are other planets in this universe that are capable of sustaining our designed type of biological life.
Jesus finished preaching which is the work given to him but it was only "finished" because Jesus knew he faced his unwanted death by Jews. Jesus said, " learn I desire mercy and not sacrifice". But Jesus was sacrificed anyway because Jews including Paul did not believe what Jesus taught.
Click to expand...
So you are correct in that God never came to Earth. God sends information to Earth but God almighty is such powerful Energy it could never be contained on a planet or seen on a planet.
Jesus said no one has seen the face of God. That is because God does not have a face.
People that say they have seen God are not telling the truth. The Apostles walked with Jesus often and never believed they were looking at the face of God.
 
W

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
God never came to earth.
Jesus came to earth but Jesus is not God. Jesus is a Manifestation of God.

1 Timothy 3-16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Jesus never promised to return to earth. Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no longer in the world.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Click to expand...
God did come to Earth... but I wasn't just talking about that... I was talking about heaven coming to Earth
"And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

Revelation 21:3
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.

Revelation 21:1-8
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” ...
 
W

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Triumph said:
Please understand that NEW "Jerusalem " is the Bible that proves the OLD Jerusalem was the wrong religion(s) filled with people that did not understand God and did not have the correct written Word to be able to understand the Laws of GOD. The Laws of GOD are be Baptized for removal of sins and Love people even if they disagree with you, even if they act like an enemy. Treat people like you want to be treated. No one wants to die in war so no one should kill people. Then there is no vengeance because there is only compassion and mercy with tolerance for people that do not think the same way. God alone judges and God alone requires people to be allowed their entire natural life to learn the truth with love and compassion as they learn.
Click to expand...
I suspect you make up your own theology. God literally promised to come back...not figuratively.
 
John53

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
Trailblazer said:
God is not a person so God cannot communicate with anyone "in person."

God never communicates directly to anyone except His Messengers, so I guess you will just have to settle into non-belief. God needs nobody's belief since God is self-sufficient, self-sustaining, transcendent, and independent of all His creatures.

I have no idea why so many atheists think they are 'so special' that the Almighty God, the Creator of the entire universe, would bother Himself to communicate with people directly, just because they do not accept His Messengers. God has better things to do, like ruling and maintaining the universe.
Click to expand...

Wow ok, I'll add it to the growing lists of things God can't do. Beyond my understanding how anyone can believe this stuff.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Wildswanderer said:
God did come to Earth... but I wasn't just talking about that... I was talking about heaven coming to Earth
"And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."
Click to expand...
How do you envision heaven coming to earth? What do you think the New Jerusalem is?

You must realize that all Christians do not have the same beliefs about what will happen even though they are all reading from the same Bible. What does that tell you?
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
John53 said:
Wow ok, I'll add it to the growing lists of things God can't do. Beyond my understanding how anyone can believe this stuff.
Click to expand...
When did I ever say that God can't do it?
Why would God do everything that God can do?
God can destroy everything He created in a split second but God does not do that, does He?

An omnipotent God does not do 'everything' that He can do, He only does what He chooses to do.
Think about it. Who is going to 'make' an omnipotent God do what He does not want to do?

This is what atheists do not understand. Atheists think omnipotent means that God can do anything, which really means God should be doing everything they expect Him to do. They do not understand what omnipotence really means. It means that God can do anything but God only does what God chooses to do.

“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.” Gleanings, p. 209
 
Triumph

Triumph

FREEDOM OF SPEECH
Wildswanderer said:
God did come to Earth... but I wasn't just talking about that... I was talking about heaven coming to Earth
"And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

Revelation 21:3
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God.

Revelation 21:1-8
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” ...
Click to expand...

Peter knows Jesus is not and never will be a killer and Jesus does not come like a thief taking what does not belong to him.
The man that preached Love your enemies is not going to deny that truth becoming a killer making his gospel, the words of God, a LIE. Jesus never varies because the laws of God never vary. The day of the "Lord" is the day of the Devil Abraham when his "sons" rise to destroy each other. The day Jesus was murdered for sins he did not commit, Abraham "rejoiced" because Abraham's lies would continue to be belivied while the truth Jesus taught will almost perish completely.
One of the biggest mistakes people make when reading the Bible is thinking every time they see the word, "Lord" that it means God or Jesus. No, it does not!

1 Samuel 25:28
I pray thee, forgive the trespass of thine handmaid: for the LORD will certainly make my lord a sure house; because my lord fighteth the battles of the LORD, and evil hath not been found in thee all thy days."
Understand this person's lord = husband is fighting the battles of the Lord= the Jewish King.
1 Chronicles 21:3
And Joab answered, The LORD make his people an hundred times so many more as they be: but, my lord the king, are they not all my lord's servants? why then doth my lord require this thing? why will he be a cause of trespass to Israel?"
2 different earthly kings are being discussed here one claiming to be the voice of God. But that Lord is not Jesus.
God is not a Lord. Jesus is called Lord only as a teacher There is only ONE God so to reference other "gods" is not understanding there are none, they do not exist! Do not give anything credibility that does NOT exist!
Joshua 22:22
The LORD God of gods, the LORD God of gods, he knoweth, and Israel he shall know; if it be in rebellion, or if in transgression against the LORD, (save us not this day,)
A God of nothing is nothing as Lord God does not exist except in the minds of greedy, waring men.
 
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John53

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
Trailblazer said:
When did I ever say that God can't do it?
Click to expand...

In the post I replied to. You said "God cannot communicate with anyone"

Why would God do everything that God can do?
God can destroy everything He created in a split second but God does not do that, does He?

An omnipotent God does not do 'everything' that He can do, He only does what He chooses to do.
Think about it. Who is going to 'make' an omnipotent God do what He does not want to do?

This is what atheists do not understand. Atheists think omnipotent means that God can do anything, which really means God should be doing everything they expect Him to do. They do not understand what omnipotence really means. It means that God can do anything but God only does what God chooses to do.

“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.” Gleanings, p. 209
Click to expand...

So back to the he can but he doesn't excuse. Surely you must recognise how weak a reason that is? And it's the answer to just about everything, I've been hearing it since I was 10 so I shouldn't be surprised.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Policy said:
In English, can't is a contraction of cannot.
Click to expand...
"God cannot do it" does not refer to God communicating in person.
"It" refers to God communicating some other way.

God cannot do what is not in His nature to do.
God is not a person so God cannot communicate in person. Logic 101.
 
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Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
John53 said:
In the post I replied to. You said "God cannot communicate with anyone"
Click to expand...
I said:
God is not a person so God cannot communicate with anyone "in person."
I did not say that God cannot communicate with anyone.
John53 said:
So back to the he can but he doesn't excuse. Surely you must recognise how weak a reason that is? And it's the answer to just about everything, I've been hearing it since I was 10 so I shouldn't be surprised.
Click to expand...
Why would God ever need an excuse for not doing what you expect Him to do?
Why would/should God do what atheists expect Him to do?
That is what atheists should be asking themselves. "I want God to x" is not a reason for God to do x.
 
W

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
How do you envision heaven coming to earth? What do you think the New Jerusalem is?

You must realize that all Christians do not have the same beliefs about what will happen even though they are all reading from the same Bible. What does that tell you?
Click to expand...
The New Jerusalem is the heavenly City. And I don't have to envision it because it's written.
16 The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia in length, and as wide and high as it is long. 17 The angel measured the wall using human measurement, and it was 144 cubits thick. 18 The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. 19 The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth onyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass.

22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
 
W

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Triumph said:
Peter knows Jesus is not and never will be a killer and Jesus does not come like a thief taking what does not belong to him.
The man that preached Love your enemies is not going to deny that truth becoming a killer making his gospel, the words of God, a LIE. Jesus never varies because the laws of God never vary. The day of the "Lord" is the day of the Devil Abraham when his "sons" rise to destroy each other. The day Jesus was murdered for sins he did not commit, Abraham "rejoiced" because Abraham's lies would continue to be belivied while the truth Jesus taught will almost perish completely.
One of the biggest mistakes people make when reading the Bible is thinking every time they see the word, "Lord" that it means God or Jesus. No, it does not!

1 Samuel 25:28
I pray thee, forgive the trespass of thine handmaid: for the LORD will certainly make my lord a sure house; because my lord fighteth the battles of the LORD, and evil hath not been found in thee all thy days."
Understand this person's lord = husband is fighting the battles of the Lord= the Jewish King.
1 Chronicles 21:3
And Joab answered, The LORD make his people an hundred times so many more as they be: but, my lord the king, are they not all my lord's servants? why then doth my lord require this thing? why will he be a cause of trespass to Israel?"
2 different earthly kings are being discussed here one claiming to be the voice of God. But that Lord is not Jesus.
God is not a Lord. Jesus is called Lord only as a teacher There is only ONE God so to reference other "gods" is not understanding there are none, they do not exist! Do not give anything credibility that does NOT exist!
Joshua 22:22
The LORD God of gods, the LORD God of gods, he knoweth, and Israel he shall know; if it be in rebellion, or if in transgression against the LORD, (save us not this day,)
A God of nothing is nothing as Lord God does not exist except in the minds of greedy, waring men.
Click to expand...
I don't even know what you're talking about here, about Jesus being a killer.
Jesus is God.
God kills everyday.
It is appointed unto each of us to die,... Who do you think does the appointment?
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Wildswanderer said:
The New Jerusalem is the heavenly City. And I don't have to envision it because it's written.
16 The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia in length, and as wide and high as it is long. 17 The angel measured the wall using human measurement, and it was 144 cubits thick. 18 The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. 19 The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth onyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass.

22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Click to expand...
I believe that all those verses are symbolic, not literal, so I do not believe they refer to an actual city.

The City of God revers to the Word of God, which is renewed in every age.

“They that valiantly labor in quest of God, will, when once they have renounced all else but Him, be so attached and wedded unto that City, that a moment’s separation from it would to them be unthinkable. They will hearken unto infallible proofs from the Hyacinth of that assembly, and will receive the surest testimonies from the beauty of its Rose, and the melody of its Nightingale. Once in about a thousand years shall this City be renewed and readorned….

That City is none other than the Word of God revealed in every age and dispensation. In the days of Moses it was the Pentateuch; in the days of Jesus, the Gospel; in the days of Muhammad, the Messenger of God, the Qur’án; in this day, the Bayán; and in the Dispensation of Him Whom God will make manifest, His own Book—the Book unto which all the Books of former Dispensations must needs be referred, the Book that standeth amongst them all transcendent and supreme.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 269-270

I believe that the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, refers to the new Law of God that came by way of Revelation of Baha'u'llah.

“The time foreordained unto the peoples and kindreds of the earth is now come. The promises of God, as recorded in the holy Scriptures, have all been fulfilled. Out of Zion hath gone forth the Law of God, and Jerusalem, and the hills and land thereof, are filled with the glory of His Revelation. Happy is the man that pondereth in his heart that which hath been revealed in the Books of God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. Meditate upon this, O ye beloved of God, and let your ears be attentive unto His Word, so that ye may, by His grace and mercy, drink your fill from the crystal waters of constancy, and become as steadfast and immovable as the mountain in His Cause.

In the Book of Isaiah it is written: “Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of His majesty.” No man that meditateth upon this verse can fail to recognize the greatness of this Cause, or doubt the exalted character of this Day—the Day of God Himself. ”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 12-13
 
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