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IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
In the Genesis creation myth, it claims the earth existed with vegetations, before the sun, this is demonstrably and objectively false, the best you can say for the bible is that it contains some things that are true, none of it is objective evidence for a deity, or anything supernatural.

Also harry Potter was intended as a work of fiction yes, but since no one has denied this as far as I am aware it's a rather bizarre straw man to open with. The intent, imagined or otherwise, of an author, tells us nothing about the validity of any claims they make, and FYI the Spider Man movie has true facts in it, this doesn't make Spider Man real.
Do you not understand that myths teach deep values? Just because a myth is not historical doesn't make it a lie. Mythology is a very powerful genre of literature.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Thanks for this post.
I hope you don't mind me chopping up your post into small chunks. :D I'm on a go-slow... one step at a time.
I'll be covering all, no worries. :)


Okay. So you agree with the historical. Cool.

You said history, myth, legend, song, proverbs, etc.
Since you claim there is myth, please identify the myth, and tell us how you know it is myth, and not symbolism, or other, which is one of those "genre" used throughout the Bible.

e.g.
Daniel 4, 7
Revelation 12, 17
...to mention just 1%.
I agree that parts of it are historical. Again, it depends on which genre the particular passage is. For example, if you read the book of Kings, that is an attempt to record history. But if you read Genesis 1, that is clearly a creation myth.

How do you know which genre you are reading? Well hopefully you learned how to recognize genre in your English and Literature/Composition classes when you were at school. Determining genre is part of reading comprehension.

The genre of Daniel and Revelation is known as apocalyptic literature, and clearly they are full of symbols -- no one really things there will be a literal beast with horns and multiple heads.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
I agree that parts of it are historical. Again, it depends on which genre the particular passage is. For example, if you read the book of Kings, that is an attempt to record history. But if you read Genesis 1, that is clearly a creation myth.
It's clear to you. Not everyone.
It's so clear you can't explain why it's clear, or what makes it clear? Then it's not clear is it.
You just claim it's a myth. That part is clear.

How do you know which genre you are reading? Well hopefully you learned how to recognize genre in your English and Literature/Composition classes when you were at school. Determining genre is part of reading comprehension.

The genre of Daniel and Revelation is known as apocalyptic literature, and clearly they are full of symbols -- no one really things there will be a literal beast with horns and multiple heads.
Daniel and Revelation are as I said, examples - 1% of them. From Genesis to Revelation symbolic of figurative language is used.

The Bible is not a school textbook. See the OP.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
It's clear to you. Not everyone.
It's so clear you can't explain why it's clear, or what makes it clear? Then it's not clear is it.
You just claim it's a myth. That part is clear.


Daniel and Revelation are as I said, examples - 1% of them. From Genesis to Revelation symbolic of figurative language is used.

The Bible is not a school textbook. See the OP.
The bible is written communication, same as any other work of literature. The fact that it teaches me to be a better person and draws me closer to God does not somehow mean that it is not literature.

All school children take classes in language, where they learn to read and write. Part of reading comprehension is discerning genre. Not everyone is good at this. Teachers can try to teach genre, and students can still not understand it. It is therefore a problem in adult life when people i.e. do not discern that a myth is a myth. It holds them back. They are at a disadvantage. But unfortunately,, that is just part of life.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
If a hu man scientist first does not identify themselves as a human only first. Then their consciousness is changed. No longer expressing sanity.

As a baby sperm ovary consciousness evolved human comes into inheriting adult human being parent life as one of from two. A human.

Just humans.

Teaching I inherit my living human life by earths maintained balances with God not as God. And I love live caring attending my life with the animal life on earth in a healthy nature garden.

Is not describing why a human is a hu man. Never did the bible own describing why a human was a human.

Once no human had to explain why natural life was live balanced healthy with animals. On earth.

O planet existed to be with God.
Heavens existed owned presence with no human.

Gods own.

We did not have to claim sanity as being was natural.

Science gave the letters A a number D a number M a number.

MAD he said is what Science was yet it wasn't as it wasn't natural.

So he said humans lost their mind behaviour became angered.
A alpha DAM terms. Mind conscious changed causes.

Forgetting life's reality didn't exist how it inherited its witnessed causes because men chose machines over bio life health.

Science hence isn't ADAM.
Science isn't MAD by I own conditions to cause by copying

Science today is however spoken about inference of by the minds who believe in attacking human life as a scientist.

No longer identify with self as only being a human being first.

By witness of how a human identified with change by seeing it human conscious expressed as destructive choice.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
The bible is written communication, same as any other work of literature. The fact that it teaches me to be a better person and draws me closer to God does not somehow mean that it is not literature.

All school children take classes in language, where they learn to read and write. Part of reading comprehension is discerning genre. Not everyone is good at this. Teachers can try to teach genre, and students can still not understand it. It is therefore a problem in adult life when people i.e. do not discern that a myth is a myth. It holds them back. They are at a disadvantage. But unfortunately,, that is just part of life.
Hmmm. It teaches you to be a better person?
Not minimizing what you said... how do you know it teaches you to be a better person?
Who says you are a better person when you do what the Bible says?

Also, although I am on a go-slow - stepping through one step at a time, I want to be going somewhere, so can I strike your claim that the Bible has myth off then, since you are unable to explain how you know what you claim to be myth is actually myth?
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
I'd imagine counting the hits and ignoring the misses will continue for as long as the human race, or at the least as long as there are Bible believers.

In my opinion
Bible worshipers are like flat earthers, no matter how many errors and inconsistencies you show them they just deny and imply that something is wrong with you. The Bible is in no way consistent. It fails on the first few pages.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
The Bible is True
The Bible is a collection of documents (primary source), written by some 40 individuals (some claim more than 50), over a period of 1600 years. Yet it is harmonious from the first dot of ink, to the last, having a message linked by one thread, running through from beginning to end.
Hence, the strongest evidence that the Bible is true, is it's internal evidence... which is then supported by external evidence - historical; scientific... etc.

Never mind the ridiculers, and those who lack understanding. The Bible is a product of a force greater than currently known to the scientific community. 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21
Right. The examples...

Historical
One of the most prominent and historically significant Assyrian kings, Tiglath-Pileser is accepted to have written the Nimrud Tablet K.3751, also known as Kalhu Palace Summary Inscription 7, an inscription on a clay tablet dated c.733 BC. The tablet describes the first 17 years of Tiglath-Pileser III's reign, and contains the first known archeological reference to Judah.
It records that he received tribute from "Jehoahaz of Judah". Also identified in royal bullae belonging to Ahaz himself and his son Hezekiah - characters later discovered to have existed, and been associated with the events described, both in the Bible, and extra-Biblical sources.
What this means, is that we have both a primary and secondary source - The later supporting the former, confirming accuracy, and credibility.

Bear in mind, this is only one example of many.
How does Harry Potter compare?
Harry Potter is not written as a true life account, but as fiction.
In mid-1990, [Joanne K. Rowling] was on a train delayed by four hours from Manchester to London, when the characters Harry Potter, Ron Weasley, and Hermione Granger came plainly into her mind. Having no pen or paper allowed her to fully explore the characters and their story in her imagination before she reached her flat and began to write.

The Bible accounts are written as history, from actual historians and keepers of historical records.
The writers often wrote... "This is a history...", or "This is the history of..."
Take this one example ...
Luke 1:1-4 - Seeing that many have undertaken to compile an account of the facts that are given full credence among us, just as these were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and attendants of the message, I resolved also, because I have traced all things from the start with accuracy, to write them to you in logical order, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know fully the certainty of the things that you have been taught orally.

This honesty is evident throughout Luke's record.
(Luke 3:1, 2) 1 In the 15th year of the reign of Ti·beʹri·us Caesar, when Pontius Pilate was governor of Ju·deʹa, Herod was district ruler of Galʹi·lee, Philip his brother was district ruler of the country of It·u·raeʹa and Trach·o·niʹtis, and Ly·saʹni·as was district ruler of Ab·i·leʹne, 2 in the days of chief priest Anʹnas and of Caʹia·phas, God’s declaration came to John the son of Zech·a·riʹah in the wilderness.

These detailed historical accounts are confirmed by discoveries made centuries after.
Acts 19:23-28, 33-38
23 At that time quite a disturbance arose concerning The Way. 24 For a man named Demetrius, a silversmith who made silver shrines of Artemis, brought considerable profit to the craftsmen. 25 He gathered them and others who worked at such things and said: “Men, you well know that from this business comes our prosperity. 26 Now you see and hear how, not only in Ephesus but in nearly all the province of Asia, this Paul has persuaded a considerable crowd and turned them to another opinion, saying that the gods made by hands are not really gods. 27 Moreover, the danger exists not only that this business of ours will come into disrepute but also that the temple of the great goddess Artemis will be viewed as nothing, and she who is worshipped in the whole province of Asia and the inhabited earth will be deprived of her magnificence.” 28 Hearing this and becoming full of anger, the men began crying out: “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!”
33 So they brought Alexander out of the crowd, the Jews shoving him forward, and Alexander motioned with his hand and wanted to make his defense to the people. 34 But when they recognized that he was a Jew, they all started shouting in unison for about two hours: “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!” 35 When the city recorder had finally quieted the crowd, he said: “Men of Ephesus, who really is there among men who does not know that the city of the Ephesians is the temple keeper of the great Artemis and of the image that fell from heaven? 36 Since these things are indisputable, you should keep calm and not act rashly. 37 For you have brought these men here who are neither robbers of temples nor blasphemers of our goddess. 38 So if Demetrius and the craftsmen with him do have a case against someone, court days are held and there are proconsuls; let them bring charges against one another.

Temple-of-Artemis.jpg

The Temple of Artemis at Ephesus was situated in the ancient city of Ephesus, which can be found near Selçuk, a town in modern Turkey.
The Temple of Artemis at Ephesus was destroyed and rebuilt at least three times, notably damaged by a flood and by fire, and was finally torched by the Goths in 268 AD and was probably not fully rebuilt after that.

These facts are as grand as the Temple of Artemis at Ephesus
The Bible writers were familiar with the facts, because they were there, and unlike Harry Potter, no fictional characters have been found mixed in with the facts.
To the contrary, those characters that have been claimed by critics to be fictional, have been discovered to be factual, to the dismay of the critic, and the credit of the authors.
City of David Top Finds #1: King Hezekiah's Royal Seal
City of David Top Finds #8: House of David Inscription

The writers of the Bible never said that they made up characters and events in order to make money.
I am telling the truth in Christ; I am not lying, as my conscience bears witness with me in holy spirit
- Paul (Romans 9:1)​
Their Candor is seen throughout. (More on that later)
Coming up too, is the Scientific evidence of the accuracy of the Bible.
Let's discuss what we have so far.
@AppieB Welcome.


Some bible tales are too fantastic (Jonah and the whale). Some bible statements contract the bible itself. For example: Genesis 1:25 says that Man was created before animals. Genesis 2:18 contradicts that and says that man was created after animals.

Over the centuries popes tortured to death anyone who disagreed with their assertion that God was perfect, heaven was perfect, and the bible was perfect (no flaws).

One scientist asserted that meteors fall from the sky, and he was forced to recant.

Without someone torturing us today, why should we be cowed into believing that all of those things are perfect?

Surely a perfect God would not have to kill anyone who points out imperfections (since there would be no imperfections)?

Surely a God would have the power to kill people himself, without some religious leader (pope or preacher) killing on His behalf. The Salem witch trials were a farce, and very very cruel. This is not at all what is taught in the bible (do unto others, turn the other cheek, thou shalt not kill).
 
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Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Bible worshipers are like flat earthers, no matter how many errors and inconsistencies you show them they just deny and imply that something is wrong with you. The Bible is in no way consistent. It fails on the first few pages.

I agree.

However, there is also religion in science. For example, eminent scientist Neil De Grasse Tyson insists that the world is a Matrix (like the movie....a virtual world....and we are made of pixels). Tyson says that we would not be able to discern fantasy from reality in a virtual world.

I know a highly religious women who insisted that God was real. Then she started thinking of a film that she saw of a water buffalo eaten by a tiger, while still alive and screaming in pain. She concluded that a good God would not allow that to happen, so either God is evil or all of this is a Matrix (virtual world).

But, even if this was a Matrix (virtual world), seeing fiction and believing it to be real is traumatic, and hurts our sensibilities. It is emotionally scarring.

Would a good God scar us emotionally?

There are so many examples of cruelties on earth, that it makes me wonder if God is good. If not good, why would anyone want to spend eternity next to a cruel God?
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Do you not understand that myths teach deep values? Just because a myth is not historical doesn't make it a lie. Mythology is a very powerful genre of literature.

I am not against the teachings of the bible, but insist that mankind responds to logic rather than faith, so often defies God (as we did when we went to war with Iraq). Remember, Revelation says that we must not attack Iraq, and the bible says "thou shalt not kill" and "turn the other cheek" and "do unto others."
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
If a hu man scientist first does not identify themselves as a human only first. Then their consciousness is changed. No longer expressing sanity.

As a baby sperm ovary consciousness evolved human comes into inheriting adult human being parent life as one of from two. A human.

Just humans.

Teaching I inherit my living human life by earths maintained balances with God not as God. And I love live caring attending my life with the animal life on earth in a healthy nature garden.

Is not describing why a human is a hu man. Never did the bible own describing why a human was a human.

Once no human had to explain why natural life was live balanced healthy with animals. On earth.

O planet existed to be with God.
Heavens existed owned presence with no human.

Gods own.

We did not have to claim sanity as being was natural.

Science gave the letters A a number D a number M a number.

MAD he said is what Science was yet it wasn't as it wasn't natural.

So he said humans lost their mind behaviour became angered.
A alpha DAM terms. Mind conscious changed causes.

Forgetting life's reality didn't exist how it inherited its witnessed causes because men chose machines over bio life health.

Science hence isn't ADAM.
Science isn't MAD by I own conditions to cause by copying

Science today is however spoken about inference of by the minds who believe in attacking human life as a scientist.

No longer identify with self as only being a human being first.

By witness of how a human identified with change by seeing it human conscious expressed as destructive choice.

I don't understand everything that you wrote.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
There are no misses. That's all in the imagination.
Why not name one, let's look at it, or better yet, deny the truthfulness of the OP with something more than what could be just an endless fruitless argument with no substance.
The Bible gets all sorts of things wrong, and does a poor job with much other subject matter. The reality is, you're prepared with a little dance to avoid any and all of the crap directly within The Bible by jumping into long-winded excuses that, in the end, don't really excuse anything. But you go on pretending that they do.

Okay big shot (sarcasm here) - tell me how it is good, right, loving and correct of God to have caused bears to come running out of the woods and maul a bunch of kids who did nothing more than poke fun at a bald man.

2 Kings 2:23-24 - "Elisha Is Jeered"

This butt-hat of a man "Elisha" is called names by some dumb kids, and feeling so, so hurt and anguished over their laughing at his bald head, he calls a curse on them in the name of the Lord. How, are we then lead to believe by the formulation of the text, does God respond (or, at least, His administration respond)? By sending 2 bears to come out of the woods and maul 42 of the boys.

How is this good, loving or a correct course of action to take? That is my question. Please demonstrate how this act is loving. Please demonstrate how this act is good. Please demonstrate how this act is the correct response to the situation.
 
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AppieB

Active Member
The Bible is True
The Bible is a collection of documents (primary source), written by some 40 individuals (some claim more than 50), over a period of 1600 years. Yet it is harmonious from the first dot of ink, to the last, having a message linked by one thread, running through from beginning to end.
Hence, the strongest evidence that the Bible is true, is it's internal evidence... which is then supported by external evidence - historical; scientific... etc.
What does it mean to be "harmonious"? How can we quantify and qualify these properties in an objective way?

Never mind the ridiculers, and those who lack understanding. The Bible is a product of a force greater than currently known to the scientific community. 2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21
Right. The examples...

Historical
One of the most prominent and historically significant Assyrian kings, Tiglath-Pileser is accepted to have written the Nimrud Tablet K.3751, also known as Kalhu Palace Summary Inscription 7, an inscription on a clay tablet dated c.733 BC. The tablet describes the first 17 years of Tiglath-Pileser III's reign, and contains the first known archeological reference to Judah.
It records that he received tribute from "Jehoahaz of Judah". Also identified in royal bullae belonging to Ahaz himself and his son Hezekiah - characters later discovered to have existed, and been associated with the events described, both in the Bible, and extra-Biblical sources.
What this means, is that we have both a primary and secondary source - The later supporting the former, confirming accuracy, and credibility.

Bear in mind, this is only one example of many.
How does Harry Potter compare?
Harry Potter is not written as a true life account, but as fiction.
In mid-1990, [Joanne K. Rowling] was on a train delayed by four hours from Manchester to London, when the characters Harry Potter, Ron Weasley, and Hermione Granger came plainly into her mind. Having no pen or paper allowed her to fully explore the characters and their story in her imagination before she reached her flat and began to write.

The Bible accounts are written as history, from actual historians and keepers of historical records.
The writers often wrote... "This is a history...", or "This is the history of..."
Take this one example ...
Luke 1:1-4 - Seeing that many have undertaken to compile an account of the facts that are given full credence among us, just as these were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and attendants of the message, I resolved also, because I have traced all things from the start with accuracy, to write them to you in logical order, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know fully the certainty of the things that you have been taught orally.

This honesty is evident throughout Luke's record.
(Luke 3:1, 2) 1 In the 15th year of the reign of Ti·beʹri·us Caesar, when Pontius Pilate was governor of Ju·deʹa, Herod was district ruler of Galʹi·lee, Philip his brother was district ruler of the country of It·u·raeʹa and Trach·o·niʹtis, and Ly·saʹni·as was district ruler of Ab·i·leʹne, 2 in the days of chief priest Anʹnas and of Caʹia·phas, God’s declaration came to John the son of Zech·a·riʹah in the wilderness.

These detailed historical accounts are confirmed by discoveries made centuries after.
Acts 19:23-28, 33-38
23 At that time quite a disturbance arose concerning The Way. 24 For a man named Demetrius, a silversmith who made silver shrines of Artemis, brought considerable profit to the craftsmen. 25 He gathered them and others who worked at such things and said: “Men, you well know that from this business comes our prosperity. 26 Now you see and hear how, not only in Ephesus but in nearly all the province of Asia, this Paul has persuaded a considerable crowd and turned them to another opinion, saying that the gods made by hands are not really gods. 27 Moreover, the danger exists not only that this business of ours will come into disrepute but also that the temple of the great goddess Artemis will be viewed as nothing, and she who is worshipped in the whole province of Asia and the inhabited earth will be deprived of her magnificence.” 28 Hearing this and becoming full of anger, the men began crying out: “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!”
33 So they brought Alexander out of the crowd, the Jews shoving him forward, and Alexander motioned with his hand and wanted to make his defense to the people. 34 But when they recognized that he was a Jew, they all started shouting in unison for about two hours: “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!” 35 When the city recorder had finally quieted the crowd, he said: “Men of Ephesus, who really is there among men who does not know that the city of the Ephesians is the temple keeper of the great Artemis and of the image that fell from heaven? 36 Since these things are indisputable, you should keep calm and not act rashly. 37 For you have brought these men here who are neither robbers of temples nor blasphemers of our goddess. 38 So if Demetrius and the craftsmen with him do have a case against someone, court days are held and there are proconsuls; let them bring charges against one another.

Temple-of-Artemis.jpg

The Temple of Artemis at Ephesus was situated in the ancient city of Ephesus, which can be found near Selçuk, a town in modern Turkey.
The Temple of Artemis at Ephesus was destroyed and rebuilt at least three times, notably damaged by a flood and by fire, and was finally torched by the Goths in 268 AD and was probably not fully rebuilt after that.

These facts are as grand as the Temple of Artemis at Ephesus
The Bible writers were familiar with the facts, because they were there, and unlike Harry Potter, no fictional characters have been found mixed in with the facts.
To the contrary, those characters that have been claimed by critics to be fictional, have been discovered to be factual, to the dismay of the critic, and the credit of the authors.
City of David Top Finds #1: King Hezekiah's Royal Seal
City of David Top Finds #8: House of David Inscription

The writers of the Bible never said that they made up characters and events in order to make money.
I am telling the truth in Christ; I am not lying, as my conscience bears witness with me in holy spirit
- Paul (Romans 9:1)​
Their Candor is seen throughout. (More on that later)
Coming up too, is the Scientific evidence of the accuracy of the Bible.
Let's discuss what we have so far.
@AppieB Welcome.
The first problem is that history can not be absolute certain of these facts. Therefore, in your opinion, these historical facts are not reasonable to accept. Therefore it can not confirm the Bible.
The second problem: Even if it would confirm certain facts, that doesn't mean the Bible as a whole is reliable. That would be a fallacious argument.
 

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
Artemis of the Ephesians was not the same as the Artemis of Greek mythology. From the NWT Study Bible notes on Acts 19:24:

Artemis: Artemis of Ephesus was a fertility goddess who was worshipped in cities throughout Asia Minor. (Ac 19:27) Statues of Artemis were adorned with what have variously been identified as multiple breasts, eggs, and the testicles of sacrificed bulls. The mummylike lower half of her body was decorated with various symbols and animals. Though there was a Greek virgin goddess of hunting known as Artemis, the Artemis of Ephesus has little in common with the Greek deity of classical mythology. The Roman name for Artemis was Diana.

View attachment 61253

If we paste a mustache on the milkman, we could call him God, and that would prove that God exists. However, there are naysayers who would argue that we cheated. However, there are theists who would argue that we cheated for Christ, and, therefore, we were on a holy mission to gain believers.

So, though you have proven that one Artemis is not the same as all other Artimises, that doesn't make it evil to diseminate false propaganda as long as the end justifies the means.

Perhaps we could keep church secrets (like the priest-raped little boys of the Catholic church who were told that they must not tell because telling would hurt the church)?

The W. Bush administration used redefinition to lie. For example, the number of homeless people increased, as the middle class was made poor by the new tax structure and millions lost their jobs to outsourced factories, so W. Bush merely redefined the word "homeless" and the problem was solved. W. Bush also redefined the word "hunger" so that no one was hungry. We could similarly define white to be black, and define black to be white, and define rich to be poor, and define poor to be rich. We could redefine fat to be thin, and thin to be fat.

Law professor at Chapman University, John Woo, lied by redefining the word torture (so that W. Bush could honestly say that no torture existed in Guantanamo). The International Red Cross had already alerted the world to torture by US forces in Iraq, but friendly fire (US soldiers) killed all of the IRC workers who alerted the world. Dead men tell no tales. Woo was a spokesman of the W. Bush administration. Of course we can also say that no torture ever existed anywhere (using W. Bush's and Dr. Professor John Woo's redefintion). Therefore no Jews were tortured by Hitler (we can deny the truth by using redefinition to lie).

The W. Bush administration knew that the Gross National Product (GNP) was low, so they changed to the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) (that included the military as something that is produced). Well, you can't eat the military (tanks are too chewy, and it's cannibalism to eat soldiers)....so it isn't really something that is produced. By declaring war against peaceful nations, it soared the GDP, which fooled people into believing that the economy was doing fine as loans defaulted (due to deregulation allowing banks to lend 125% of the value of homes, then default those homes as home prices dropped). It was even worse than when Reagan did the same thing, causing the failure of the FSLIC (Federal Savings and Loan Insurance Company....a privately owned insurance company that incorrectly boasts that our money is insured by the government). When bank insurance companies started to declare bankruptcy, Republicans didn't want to shore them up, but wanted US currency to collapse....which would have resulted in no nation trusting loans to the US.

So, we've lived by a variety of lies. Lies that made us fight peaceful nations (Afghanistan and Iraq) that had no link to terrorism.

So, what's wrong with telling a few more lies, as long as we can dupe people into believing in Christ?

The bible (which is God's word) says that we should not lie. But isn't that just a suggestion, not really a commandment? "Thou shalt not bear false witness."
 
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IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Hmmm. It teaches you to be a better person?
Not minimizing what you said... how do you know it teaches you to be a better person?
Who says you are a better person when you do what the Bible says?

Also, although I am on a go-slow - stepping through one step at a time, I want to be going somewhere, so can I strike your claim that the Bible has myth off then, since you are unable to explain how you know what you claim to be myth is actually myth?
The heart of the Torah is "God love," and "Love your neighbor as yourself." This is the heart of almost all ethics. R. Hillel said, "What is hateful to you, don't do to others. This is the whole Torah, all the rest is commentary. Now go study the commentary." And indeed, studying specific laws make you think. For example, I might read "Do not stand idly by your brother's blood," and go "Hmmmm I didn't think of that before, but yeah, standing up against a bully on behalf of someone really is part of loving my neighbor as myself." You get the idea.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I am not against the teachings of the bible, but insist that mankind responds to logic rather than faith, so often defies God (as we did when we went to war with Iraq). Remember, Revelation says that we must not attack Iraq, and the bible says "thou shalt not kill" and "turn the other cheek" and "do unto others."
And I think there is a time and place for both reasoning and faith.

The commandment is better translated "Thou shalt not murder." Not all killing is murder. Torah makes it clear that things like killing during war and capital punishment are not murder, and can be justified. "Turn the other cheek" is New Testament and I'm not concerned with it.

Your depiction of Revelation is laughable, but then I laugh at all those who use a futurist approach. Revelation is about the Jewish Roman War. All the symbols refer to things of that time and place.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
I agree.

However, there is also religion in science. For example, eminent scientist Neil De Grasse Tyson insists that the world is a Matrix (like the movie....a virtual world....and we are made of pixels). Tyson says that we would not be able to discern fantasy from reality in a virtual world.

I know a highly religious women who insisted that God was real. Then she started thinking of a film that she saw of a water buffalo eaten by a tiger, while still alive and screaming in pain. She concluded that a good God would not allow that to happen, so either God is evil or all of this is a Matrix (virtual world).

But, even if this was a Matrix (virtual world), seeing fiction and believing it to be real is traumatic, and hurts our sensibilities. It is emotionally scarring.

Would a good God scar us emotionally?

There are so many examples of cruelties on earth, that it makes me wonder if God is good. If not good, why would anyone want to spend eternity next to a cruel God?
When God created us with free will and delegated the responsibility of self-governance, then the stage was set for inevitable accident of time and the consequence of human errors. If we are to be free on this experiential world then suffering is inevitable.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Bible worshipers are like flat earthers, no matter how many errors and inconsistencies you show them they just deny and imply that something is wrong with you. The Bible is in no way consistent. It fails on the first few pages.
Sigh :(
True believers need a great deal of patience.
Satan is rampaging through this earth with quite a lot of success.

I understand why Jesus said, "Let them be. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” Matthew 15:14

We do have our wow moments.
Take this comment for example.
Some bible statements contract the bible itself. For example: Genesis 1:25 says that Man was created before animals. Genesis 2:18 contradicts that and says that man was created after animals.

You are going to read an overview, then read a verse that clearly says what is to follow is a history, and you are going to look at the brief details following an overview, and say one contradict the other??? :dizzy:

As my brother would say, "Good Grief!" :facepalm:
I really would have liked if it wasn't this unbelievable, but it is what it is.

I'll do like Jesus, and let you guys be.
You demonstrate that those "Bible worshipers" are right. :anguished:
 
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rational experiences

Veteran Member
When human's stop lying they might finally make correct choices.

A human is a human as a human being the human. No ego theisms allowed.

So no other identification as concepts own reasoning. As you can't not be a human in thought when a human thinking poses the thought themself.

As you are exact the human you identify self first. Then if you claim non human the intent is to destroy yourself.

We told the story how the group bullies owned personal agreed conditions to agree to remove life from natural.balanced support family. Extended family in trade. On earth. Human life.

As skills were personal to the life experience. So we traded between families by skill of trade.

The fallen star brought burning gases that blasted into our heavens. Changed the human brain. Wasn't any holy star.

So we consciously not just by behaviours but by practices rituals Idealised wrong human beliefs. Then irradiated gas burnt brains owned every bad choice a human ever chose.

Against family. Built gods destruction nuclear blasting and now sit waiting threatening everyone that gods power will kill you all.

Science however says it's okay alright don't worry. Is why your status is laughable.

No different from what science ever achieved before. Once you more than likely first used science quotes like you do today. Then science became myth by your causes changed brain mind inheritance.

As it's science who says what is the source base of any type of energy that in awareness reasons as substance varies. If I find it I will name it then I will burn it up myself.

The base of every type of energy mass all things he says.

Destroyer of God the human owned story.

As if you destroy God then of course God will destroy life. Pretty basic science for self possessed scientists who aren't intelligent.

Hence humans had to falsify preach status of living supported ownership in human life so you would pay homage to natural presence.

As CH gases is a man's use of scientific data. He knows he is not the substance a CH gas. Hence no man is Christ you however were taught Christ mass needs to exist to support life.

Don't burn it up was a warning as earths stone body mass on earth owned it too said men of wisdom.

As science doesn't just recognise CH gases they also burn them out of existing.

As they came out of earths mass the evidence was sin holes as nothing left.

Hence congratulations original group cult the brothers of science first origin human bullies.

Who since by chosen human group behaviour force indoctrinated any human told story themselves in belief of human egotism status self grandeur self awards as the purposeful magical powerful group.

Just all humans.

Humans who with rich man want new trade new invention to become richer at the expense of life's destruction.

So if you ask why they don't believe they are included in life's just a humans destruction is because each of them act separately in purpose as the destroyer mind. Of everything and everyone else.

As in fact it's what human self destructive personalities achieve.

Destroying everyone and everything by the scientific purpose of God.

So as all humans are equally natural first and science is indoctrinated memory the natural human advises it's own self as not science.

Any scientist believing science is answering is not honest. Natural conscious memory of all natural humans is giving life it's last warnings first.

The warning don't allow the Muslim holy war star effect beliefs to take over your man's mind in science. Yet it proves it already has as sciences owned historic warning.

As the last God as my war was to stop re emerging Muslim maths science after star fall changed mind again of men to want to rebuild temple sciences as pyramid owners in Jeru salem Salem.

Father said as your human adult brother life baby began as woman's cell ovary. His presence sperm owner isn't the woman.

You aren't their bodily consciously hence can't infer status as a human man thesis. As father wasn't the scientist.

Just some basic concepts of how a man baby adult theist lies.

Your life begins as a holy woman mother plus ovary only. Any of you in presence of life.

A human thinking non presence is using his man thoughts owned by a human with personal intent.

Hence consciousness was the taught human concept of an honest human or a dishonest destroyer human.

Identified by human thesis.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
What does it mean to be "harmonious"? How can we quantify and qualify these properties in an objective way?
I can think of several things that prove the Bible harmonious.
I'll mention one. Genealogy.

If you think the genealogy being harmonious is based on personal opinion, you can point it out.

The first problem is that history can not be absolute certain of these facts. Therefore, in your opinion, these historical facts are not reasonable to accept. Therefore it can not confirm the Bible.
In your opinion. Not mine.
Please get your facts straight. Then you might be able to make truthful statements.

The second problem: Even if it would confirm certain facts, that doesn't mean the Bible as a whole is reliable. That would be a fallacious argument.
I'm not aware of anyone who said history alone confirms the Bible as a whole is reliable.
So that's a problem you created, based on a strawman.
 
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