Jehovah's Witness=Unbiblical Religion!

Brian2 said:

Yes God created Adam and Eve and that was through Jesus. I guess it was Jesus who formed Adam from the ground and formed Eve and breathed life into Adam.

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As I have been saying, once I realized that the theory of evolution has big incredible gaps in it, I no longer ascribe to it as the truth of how life came about and how humans and other fabulous beings are. (That includes clouds and blue skies, although I know they're not 'alive.') When Moses is resurrected, I look forward to hearing more about what he knew and how he knew it.

YoursTrue said:

As I have been saying, once I realized that the theory of evolution has big incredible gaps in it, I no longer ascribe to it as the truth of how life came about and how humans and other fabulous beings are. (That includes clouds and blue skies, although I know they're not 'alive.') When Moses is resurrected, I look forward to hearing more about what he knew and how he knew it.

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Of course evolution is not supposed to be how life came about. But abiogenesis seems to be evolution applied to atoms and molecules before life is supposed to have begun, whenever the definition of life is agreed upon.

muhammad_isa said:

Nevermind..
There are different levels of spiritual awareness. We are not all equal.
'Heaven' is not a communist state.

I encourage people to go to the "church" that they belong to.
Belief in G-d, as in the Bible, is the main thing.

It is G-d who accepts or rejects our faith. He knows what we are all about.

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Believing in God is important and believing in the one He sent also is important. We all need forgiveness and that comes through Jesus.

Isa 42:1 “Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
my chosen one in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him,
and he will bring justice to the nations.
2 He will not shout or cry out,
or raise his voice in the streets.
3 A bruised reed he will not break,
and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out.
In faithfulness he will bring forth justice;
4 he will not falter or be discouraged
till he establishes justice on earth.
In his teaching the islands will put their hope.”

5 This is what God the Lord says—
the Creator of the heavens, who stretches them out,
who spreads out the earth with all that springs from it,
who gives breath to its people,
and life to those who walk on it:
6 “I, the Lord, have called you in righteousness;
I will take hold of your hand.
I will keep you and will make you
to be a covenant for the people
and a light for the Gentiles,
7 to open eyes that are blind,
to free captives from prison
and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness.

8 “I am the Lord; that is my name!
I will not yield my glory to another
or my praise to idols.
9 See, the former things have taken place,
and new things I declare;
before they spring into being
I announce them to you.”

YoursTrue said:

Here's what I am learning about what you call the Church. By the way, the trinity does not conform with the scriptures. One can always grab a statement or two and say See? That means that God is triune. (No, it doesn't but some will say that.)

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The Father is called God, the Holy Spirit is called God and shown to be alive, the Son is called God and the 3 are united as one. Hence the word "trinity" was invented to describe that.

YoursTrue said:

What I see is that the "Church" has little authority over its own adherents, or depending what church is being discussed, there's a gap somehow -- almost like the theory of evolution.

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Jesus said not to lord it over those entrusted to us. (Matt 20:25, 1Peter 5:3)
Lording it over people used to be more common in the Church.

YoursTrue said:

The lake is symbolic of eternal destruction, as you said, death without feeling, knowledge, happiness -- no resurrection.

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The second death cannot have a resurrection if those who go into it are destroyed. There would be nothing to resurrect, no soul. All God could do is make a copy of those people, and that copy would not be those people.

Brian2 said:

I would think that eternal damnation could be eternity without life.

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You left out the "eternal torture" of your original post. Death is like sleep, without the dreams. Most everyone looks forward to 8 hours of sleep, and if they don't wake up, well, they won't know about it. That would be considered mercy, in respect to the alternative, which is to be aware that they are apart from God for eternity. The unanswered question is with regard to the white throne judgment based on one's deeds per Revelation 20:12. That would presumably include a period of time to carry out those judgments "according to their deeds", since not all deeds are comparable, whether they are good or bad.

YoursTrue said:

I find it interesting that the Pope in his recent comments is reported to have spoken of the possibility of nuclear war and mankind having to "start over" again. Nothing said about what the Bible says regarding war and peace and God's intervention. Revelation 21:1-5 - new heavens and new earth where RIGHTEOUSNESS is to be. Death will be no more. Nothing about what Jesus told his disciples to pray for -- God's kingdom. "Let your kingdom come..."

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The "pope" would be among the leaders/kings who are under the influence of the demon spirits of Revelation 16:13, who will help in bringing together the nations against Jerusalem with regard to Har-Magedon (Revelation 16:16), which will include radiation poisoning (Zechariah 14:12), in that "their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, etc.", with respect to those who come up against Jerusalem. China and Russia are in charge of the negotiations whereas Iran will receive billions of US dollars and a new Russian built nuclear power plant, and be able to sell their oil to the US, and to undermine Israeli and global security. The pope tried to negotiate with Obama over getting control over the area of David's citadel, which is located on the physical Mount Zion. The pope actually thinks he has the keys to the house of David (Matthew 16:19) & (Isaiah 22:22-25). The pope's house, is soon to fall (Matthew 7:27) & (Isaiah 22:25). Except for those who already died and rose from the dead, and ruling from Jerusalem (Revelation 20:4), "every person will die for their own iniquities (Jeremiah 31:30 & Isaiah 65:20).

Brian2 said:

The Father is called God, the Holy Spirit is called God and shown to be alive, the Son is called God and the 3 are united as one. Hence the word "trinity" was invented to describe that.



Jesus said not to lord it over those entrusted to us. (Matt 20:25, 1Peter 5:3)
Lording it over people used to be more common in the Church.

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I think you have left out more of the story, such as call no one "Father", in which the church calls the pope not only "Father" but God on earth. And to call no one leader, for which the pope calls himself the leader of the church, and Christ on earth. The church quit torturing and burning heretics because the reformers took away half of their power, and now their divided house cannot stand.

2ndpillar said:

You left out the "eternal torture" of your original post. Death is like sleep, without the dreams. Most everyone looks forward to 8 hours of sleep, and if they don't wake up, well, they won't know about it. That would be considered mercy, in respect to the alternative, which is to be aware that they are apart from God for eternity. The unanswered question is with regard to the white throne judgment based on one's deeds per Revelation 20:12. That would presumably include a period of time to carry out those judgments "according to their deeds", since not all deeds are comparable, whether they are good or bad.

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It seems there is torment, at least for a time for some, if not all who go to the lake of fire.
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. Day and night there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

2ndpillar said:

I think you have left out more of the story, such as call no one "Father", in which the church calls the pope not only "Father" but God on earth. And to call no one leader, for which the pope calls himself the leader of the church, and Christ on earth. The church quit torturing and burning heretics because the reformers took away half of their power, and now their divided house cannot stand.

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I think the Pope is called the representative of Jesus on earth, but not God.
But yes it is strange imo that the Church ended up having images and calling priests "father" and doing other things that many Christians would say is wrong.

Brian2 said:

I think the Pope is called the representative of Jesus on earth, but not God.
But yes it is strange imo that the Church ended up having images and calling priests "father" and doing other things that many Christians would say is wrong.

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The Trinity dogma equates "Christ" with God, ergo, the pope not only speaks for God, ex cathedra, but is God on earth, in the minds of the leaders of the Roman church.

Brian2 said:

It seems there is torment, at least for a time for some, if not all who go to the lake of fire.
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. Day and night there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

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The "Christian" church worships the "beast with two horns like a lamb", Constantine, by keeping his laws, and worshipping the image he set up, the pagan cross, and will have to drink from the cup of the anger of God (Revelation 14:10). Being cast into the "furnace of fire" is with regards to the "tares", followers of the false prophet Paul, being tossed into the "great tribulation" at the "end of the age" (Matthew 13:38-42). The "great tribulation" will be "cut short" in order for the "elect" to survive, and will not last "forever". (Matthew 24:22) The ones who "escape" death (Joel 2:31-32), will be those who "keep the commandments of God" (Revelation 14:13).Those who keep the laws of Constantine, and his Roman church, and her daughters, will not do so well.

2ndpillar said:

The Trinity dogma equates "Christ" with God, ergo, the pope not only speaks for God, ex cathedra, but is God on earth, in the minds of the leaders of the Roman church.

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I don't know what the leaders of the Roman Church think.
The position of the Pope sounds like that of the JWs Governing Body or the Mormon President and Prophet and other figures of power in various churches.

2ndpillar said:

The "Christian" church worships the "beast with two horns like a lamb", Constantine, by keeping his laws, and worshipping the image he set up, the pagan cross, and will have to drink from the cup of the anger of God (Revelation 14:10). Being cast into the "furnace of fire" is with regards to the "tares", followers of the false prophet Paul, being tossed into the "great tribulation" at the "end of the age" (Matthew 13:38-42). The "great tribulation" will be "cut short" in order for the "elect" to survive, and will not last "forever". (Matthew 24:22) The ones who "escape" death (Joel 2:31-32), will be those who "keep the commandments of God" (Revelation 14:13).Those who keep the laws of Constantine, and his Roman church, and her daughters, will not do so well.

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I think that the cross was used by the early church a long time before Constantine was born.
You seem to have a lot of interpretations of the Bible that I do not.
I do not discard any of the Bible as being false, such as the letters of Paul.
Why do you do that?

Brian2 said:

I think that the cross was used by the early church a long time before Constantine was born.
You seem to have a lot of interpretations of the Bible that I do not.
I do not discard any of the Bible as being false, such as the letters of Paul.
Why do you do that?

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The church of Paul used the imagery of nailing the law to the cross, they did not kneel or pray to a cross. It was at Constantine's battle of Milvian Bridge whereas the "conquer the world under the sign of the cross" came into being. That was an encounter between Sol Invictus, with a crown of a cross, the god of Constantine, and Constantine in 312 AD, which was immortalized in 313 AD by Constantine stamping out a Roman coin with the image of Constantine on one side, and the image of Sol Invictus with his cross shaped crown on the other. From that you get the Crusaders and Conquistadors marching behind their crosses and cross imaged banners. As for the letters, supposedly written by Paul, of which today's scholars claim only around 50% were of Paul, they were all written, it is just as per the depiction of Yeshua in Matthew 13:38-39, they were the message of the devil.

Brian2 said:

I don't know what the leaders of the Roman Church think.
The position of the Pope sounds like that of the JWs Governing Body or the Mormon President and Prophet and other figures of power in various churches.

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The pope's claim for power is thru Peter and the false interpretation of Matthew 16:17-18, and the inaccurate interpretation of Isaiah 22:15-25, and by ignoring Zechariah 13:7-9 & Matthew 28:19 & 24:10. Peter was set up by Yeshua to "fulfill" (Mt 5:12) Isaiah 22:15-25 & Zechariah 11, but the leaders of the JWs are just following Paul instructions, by being leaders, teachers, apostles, etc., and being daughters (Rev 17:5) of Babylon, by way of the Roman church in that manner. They are all simply daughters of Babylon to various degrees. The Protestants made an effort to repent, but were unsuccessful. Luther's affinity to wine, food, woman, and life, probably brought him up short, such as by backing the German princes over the serfs. The German princes were his protection against the pope and his Inquisition against him.

you dont know anything if you have never tired standing poles up let alown tired it with a man nailed to it. its harder than you might think . put the cross bar below the feet ,about 4' from the bottom ,then there is a way for 3 men to handle such a task. i know because i have built pole barns . it also aids in pulling the pole up out of the hole the pole is in

Brian2 said:

It seems there is torment, at least for a time for some, if not all who go to the lake of fire.
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. Day and night there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

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the torment comes in knowing before hand ,wile you is yet alive . dead people have no thoughts

cataway said:

the torment comes in knowing before hand ,wile you is yet alive . dead people have no thoughts

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The torment is symbolic of that which will always be trashed by those who are saved. The conduct, blasphemy, trickery, illegal junk practiced now will forever be rejected by those that remain alive in God's new earth and heaven.

Brian2 said:

Of course evolution is not supposed to be how life came about. But abiogenesis seems to be evolution applied to atoms and molecules before life is supposed to have begun, whenever the definition of life is agreed upon.

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It is absolutely essential to recognize the beginning of life in order to even think about the processes of the theory of evolution. If someone has a class explaining evolution but does not explain the beginning of it in its fundamentals, it wouldn't be more than imagination. And the rest of it is also imagination based occasionally on fossil findings. But there is no actual history other than supposition. Interestingly enough it is generally accepted that man came from African whereabouts.