I can NEVER be a Jehovah's Witness! Here is why! I attend a JW Zoom meeting tomorrow though!

2ndpillar said:

The canon of the NT is "God's word" according to the Roman Catholic church, who according to the reformers, is the "whore of Babylon. According to Yeshua in Matthew 13, it is the message of the "enemy"/devil mixed in the same field/book with the message of the son of man. Yeshua quoted from the book of the Law and the prophets, what is known as the Old Testament. He disparaged the scribes, the Pharisees, as hypocrites. The bulk of the NT is founded upon the writings of the Pharisee of Pharisees, Paul.

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Jesus established his Church on ROCK! This means it will never fail!
Matthew 7:24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.

2ndpillar To think Jesus could not build a Church that would last is to call Jesus a FOOL!
26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

2ndpillar is Jesus a FOOL? Many MUST believe Jesus is a fool; they believe Satan had somehow overpowered Jesus and Satan TOOK Jesus' Body/Bride (Church) from Jesus!
Many think they MUST come to God' rescue and reestablish the Church Jesus lost! Scriptures PROVE these men and their churches are a lie!

Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church to the very end of the Age!
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Jesus established his One Holy Catholic Apostolic CHURCH before he left us he promised to send the Holy Spirit to REMAIN forever with his One Holy Catholic Apostolic CHURCH the Holy Spirit arrived on Pentecost!
John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—

2ndpillar This means the Holy Spirit is still to this very day GUIDING the One Holy Catholic Apostolic CHURCH FOREVER into ALL TRUTH!
John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

2ndpillar said:

I expect you mean the Roman catholic church, which sits on the beast (Rome), whose authority comes from the "dragon"/devil (Revelation 13:4 & 17:3-5), whose Roman persona is Sol Invictus, the god of Constantine, whose day of worship is Sunday, through which the beast with two horns like a lamb, Constantine and his Roman church, is to deceive those "who dwell on the earth" (Revelation 13:14). I don't think that is a good idea.

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2ndpillar Jesus established the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church before he ascended NONE OTHER!
Christians use the Cross as their symbol it is an identifier; you see a CROSS you think Christian!
Satan is Anti-Christian he rejects the cross he would NEVER allow it on any of his Churches!
Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

The Pope decided Sunday is the day Christians worship because it is the day Jesus rose from the dead! Christians are NOT Jews we do NOT worship on the sabbath we worship on the first day of the week not the last! Satan is anti-Christian it makes since Satan would also reject Sundays his church would not worship on Sunday!

Dogknox20 said:

..
2 You must not add to the word that I am commanding you, neither must you take away from it,
I reply:
The JW added the letter "A" to John 1:1 so it reads many gods!" Christians believe in ONE GOD! Bree Not one other scripture interpreter (over 60) has the letter "A" in John 1:1!
ALL have it interpreted this way... In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
You must not add to the word that I am commanding you,

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Thats not quite accurate. Other translators have also used the 'a' in the verse.
Here is how other translators feel it should be translated

Emphatic Diaglott reads: “In a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word.”
The New English Bible says: “And what God was, the Word was.”
Moffatt’s translation reads: “The Logos was divine.”
The American Translation reads: “The Word was divine.”
The New Testament in An Improved Version, published in London, England, in 1808 “The Word was in the beginning, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.
German translators all seem to use 'a' in the verse
Böhmer: “It was tightly bound up with God, yes, itself of divine being.”
Stage: “The Word was itself of divine being.”
Menge: “And God (= of divine being) the Word was.” And by
Thimme: “And God of a sort the Word was.”
German scholar Ernst Haenchen (Das Johannesevangelium. Ein Kommentar). “In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and divine [of the category divinity] was the Logos.”
A New Translation, by Professor Charles Cutler Torrey (2nd ed., 1947),: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was god. (note that he differentiates with a capital and lowercase God/god indicating a recognition of the difference.)

The Coptic version of the bible is also a proof that 'a' should be included in our english translations. The Anchor Bible Dictionary says: “Since the [Septuagint] and the [Christian Greek Scriptures] were being translated into Coptic during the 3d century C.E., the Coptic version is based on [Greek manuscripts] which are significantly older than the vast majority of extant witnesses.”
The Sahidic Coptic translation uses an indefinite article with the word “god” in the final part of John 1:1. Thus, when rendered into modern English, the translation reads: “And the Word was a god.”

English translators 'choose' to leave out the 'a' in order to not confuse their trinity teaching.

Dogknox20 said:

Deut 17:18 proves what? ... It proves that taken from the one kept by the Levitical priests.
Bree The Priests give him the Law! The Church is the AUTHORITY over the King the CHURCH interprets the law!

Bree your words... without Gods Word, how would you know what is true and what is false?
I reply>>> The CHURCH would tell you what is true and what is false! You quote Romans 3 Paul preaching.. "It is written!"
Paul also said in Acts 17.. That the Bereans were MORE NOBEL because they rejected Scriptures ALONE!

Acts 17:11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

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The kings were under the law of God as written in the scriptures back then. It proves that Gods written law was the authority.

And the verse in Acts 17:11 shows that the spoken word was not blindly accepted by the Boreans. They examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true So Paul was preaching, they liked what they heard, but they checked that what he was preaching was backed up by scripture! They viewed the scriptures as the ultimate authority. Thanks for mentioning that verse it really proves the point im making.

Dogknox20 said:

Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to his CHURCH to remain with his CHURCH FOREVER! This means your Church does NOT have the Holy Spirit
Your church was NOT established by Jesus!
John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—

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there was no 'church' in the beginning and there was certainly no catholic church. There were the Apostles and the Disciples. They were the 'ek klesia' ek, meaning “out,” and ka·leʹo, meaning “call.” Hence, it pertains to a group of persons called out or called together. The word 'church' was not around then and it certainly did not mean the 'catholics' Pentecost 33 where holy spirit was poured out on 120 disciples gathered in a room in Jerusalem. It was Christians who were spirit annointed, not a 'church'

Dogknox20 said:

Bree Your words... The catholic church did not exist until around 3rd /4th century.
Your words are a LIE until prove different they will ALWAYS remain a lie!

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If Christ Jesus and his apostles did indeed establish the Roman Catholic Church, then why is not 1 word mentioned in the christian scriptures of the “Holy Father,” or a pope, a college of cardinals, archbishops, metropolitans, patriarchs, monsignors, right reverends, priests, abbots, monks and nuns?

You wont find anything of the kind because it wasnt until the roman ruler Constantine of the year 325 decided the debate on the trinity held at Nicea in favor of Athanasius and against Arius, and it was not until after the year 440 that the bishop of the Roman see, Leo I, became in fact the first pope. That is where your catholic church began. It certainly did not begin with Christ and his 12 Apostles. It is the apostacy that they warned christans about.

My words are blunt, but true.

Dogknox20 said:

Ignatius wrote: “When the bishop is present, there let the congregation gather, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church” (8:2). This is the first surviving mention in Christian literature of the name, “the Catholic Church,” the name which the Council of Constantinople (381) would later employ in the Nicene Creed to designate the entity for which that Council was speaking.
The ancient account of the martyrdom of Polycarp, who was bishop of Smyrna in the early second century, when Ignatius passed through on the way to martyrdom, routinely refers to “the whole Catholic Church throughout the world.”

Bree Ignatius lived from around A.D. 35 to 107. His words>> where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church”
Constantine call the first council.. OVER 100 Catholic Bishops showed up; These Bishops did not come out of thin air!

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Was Ignatius one of the 12 Apostles?

And Constantine was of the 3rd century as i've mentioned above. If those words are trully from an Ignatius who lived at the time of the apostles, then why did the Apostles themselves not use the term 'catholic church' ? Seems a bit odd don't you think?

Dogknox20 said:

.
Jesus established his Church on ROCK! This means it will never fail!
Matthew 7:24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.

2ndpillar To think Jesus could not build a Church that would last is to call Jesus a FOOL!
26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

2ndpillar is Jesus a FOOL? Many MUST believe Jesus is a fool; they believe Satan had somehow overpowered Jesus and Satan TOOK Jesus' Body/Bride (Church) from Jesus!
Many think they MUST come to God' rescue and reestablish the Church Jesus lost! Scriptures PROVE these men and their churches are a lie!

Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church to the very end of the Age!
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Jesus established his One Holy Catholic Apostolic CHURCH before he left us he promised to send the Holy Spirit to REMAIN forever with his One Holy Catholic Apostolic CHURCH the Holy Spirit arrived on Pentecost!
John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—

2ndpillar This means the Holy Spirit is still to this very day GUIDING the One Holy Catholic Apostolic CHURCH FOREVER into ALL TRUTH!
John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

Click to expand...

Thank you for putting @2ndpillar in his/her correct place regarding what Christ and the Scriptures taught. He/she gives the impression of not knowing the Bible or caring much what it says.

And He/she keeps condemning the Church as being the whore of Babylon, prostitute, Religion of the antichrist!

Dogknox20 said:

..
2 You must not add to the word that I am commanding you, neither must you take away from it,
I reply:
The JW added the letter "A" to John 1:1 so it reads many gods!" Christians believe in ONE GOD! Bree Not one other scripture interpreter (over 60) has the letter "A" in John 1:1!
ALL have it interpreted this way... In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
You must not add to the word that I am commanding you,


Deut 17:18 proves what? ... It proves that taken from the one kept by the Levitical priests.
Bree The Priests give him the Law! The Church is the AUTHORITY over the King the CHURCH interprets the law!

Bree your words... without Gods Word, how would you know what is true and what is false?
I reply>>> The CHURCH would tell you what is true and what is false! You quote Romans 3 Paul preaching.. "It is written!"
Paul also said in Acts 17.. That the Bereans were MORE NOBEL because they rejected Scriptures ALONE!

Acts 17:11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

The Message Paul was teaching is "Christ Resurrected" Acts 17:3.
Bree The Bereans would never have found truth without CHURCH (Paul) TEACHING! The Bereans did not have written in their Old Testament "Christ Resurrected"
The Bereans NEEDED CHURCH to find truth!
Bree Those in Thessalonica were LESS NOBLE because they believed in Scriptures ALONE, they REJECTED the teaching of the CHURCH! BUT...

Bree but those in Thessalonica will have an excuse when they stand in judgement they did not have written in their Old Testament "Listen To The Church" as you do! You have NO EXCUSE for rejecting the Church, your scriptures tell you "Listen to the Church" you are LESS THEN noble just plain EGNOBLE!

Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to his CHURCH to remain with his CHURCH FOREVER! This means your Church does NOT have the Holy Spirit
Your church was NOT established by Jesus!
John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—

Bree Your words... The catholic church did not exist until around 3rd /4th century.
Your words are a LIE until prove different they will ALWAYS remain a lie!

Ignatius wrote: “When the bishop is present, there let the congregation gather, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church” (8:2). This is the first surviving mention in Christian literature of the name, “the Catholic Church,” the name which the Council of Constantinople (381) would later employ in the Nicene Creed to designate the entity for which that Council was speaking.
The ancient account of the martyrdom of Polycarp, who was bishop of Smyrna in the early second century, when Ignatius passed through on the way to martyrdom, routinely refers to “the whole Catholic Church throughout the world.”

Bree Ignatius lived from around A.D. 35 to 107. His words>> where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church”
Constantine call the first council.. OVER 100 Catholic Bishops showed up; These Bishops did not come out of thin air!

FACT: Scriptures tell you: Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church to the end of time; this means he cannot be with your church! Your church was started by a MAN 1800 years AFTER Jesus!
FACT: Jesus build his CHURCH on ROCK; This means his Church cannot fail.. It means your Church is a LIE yours was started by a MAN 1800 yours AFTER Jesus established his Holy Church!

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Amen!

Dogknox20 said:

2ndpillar Jesus established the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church before he ascended NONE OTHER!
Christians use the Cross as their symbol it is an identifier; you see a CROSS you think Christian!
Satan is Anti-Christian he rejects the cross he would NEVER allow it on any of his Churches!
Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

The Pope decided Sunday is the day Christians worship because it is the day Jesus rose from the dead! Christians are NOT Jews we do NOT worship on the sabbath we worship on the first day of the week not the last! Satan is anti-Christian it makes since Satan would also reject Sundays his church would not worship on Sunday!

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It was in 321 A.D. that Constantine, the historical Pontifex Maximus of the pagan church since Caesar, decreed that the day of the sun, Sunday, his god Sol Invictus day, was to be a day of rest, when you could not buy or sell on Sunday, and of course, the number of Constantine's name is 616, the original number of the beast with regard to Revelation 13. As for the cross, an ancient pagan symbol, it was under the cross, per Constantine's vision of the angel of light (Satan) in the form of a cross, that Constantine was to go out and conquer the world per his vision of 312 A.D. at the battle of Milvian bridge. This was done by way of Constantine's banner, which as an example, the "Christian" conquistadors conquered America under the sign of the cross carried by his Jesuit monks. As for the writings of the false prophet Paul, with regard to Colossians 2:16, look to the source. As for the "Christian" use of the cross today, it is based on the "law being nailed to the cross", the false gospel of grace, of the false prophet, Paul, who was one of the two "horns like a lamb" of the "beast with two horns like a lamb", Constantine, who was to "deceive" "those who dwell on the earth" (Revelation 13:14). According to Yeshua, the only sign to be given was the sign of Jonah, which was 3 days and 3 nights in the earth. Passover occurs on the 14th of Nissan, and the Feast of Unleavened Bread, a high Sabbath, happens on the 15th of Nissan. The 14th of Nissan at that time was on a Wednesday, when the lamb to be sacrifice was to be prepared. It had to be eaten fully with none left over into the next day, startng at twilight. Three days and 3 night later, "on the Sabbath", on the eve of the 1st day of the week (Matthew 28:1), the tomb was found empty. The blood of the lamb was used to mark the lintels of the homes to keep the angel of death at bay. The "Christian" church has rewrote the narrative, changed the times, and teaches that they will not all sleep/die, in direct contradiction to the Word of God, per Jeremiah 31:30, but in keeping with Daniel 7:25, in that the king to come, which would the 7th head of the beast of Revelation 17:11, Constantine, during his Nicene Council, would change the time of Passover and the Feast of Unleavened bread timing to the timing of the pagan feast of Astarte/Easter, the queen of heaven. Apparently, those "who dwell on earth", have been "deceived" (Revelation 13:14).

King James Bible Matthew 28:1
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Spiderman said:

Thank you for putting @2ndpillar in his/her correct place regarding what Christ and the Scriptures taught. He/she gives the impression of not knowing the Bible or caring much what it says.

And He/she keeps condemning the Church as being the whore of Babylon, prostitute, Religion of the antichrist!

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I think you have implied that you look to the Roman Church doctrines over what you consider as "Scripture". As for the term "whore of Babylon", that was a term used by a Roman Catholic cleric named Luther, who was married into the church, as he married a nun. The term was also used by other church reformers, which places the Protestant churches as daughters of the daughter of Babylon. As for the term "antichrist" the religious sects consider the "another" "king" of Daniel 7:25 as the "antichrist". Looking at the historical references of Daniel 7, the another "king" would be Constantine, the establisher of the Roman "Christian" church whose reign is running out after time, times and half a time.

Bree said:

Thats not quite accurate. Other translators have also used the 'a' in the verse.
Here is how other translators feel it should be translated

Emphatic Diaglott reads: “In a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word.”
The New English Bible says: “And what God was, the Word was.”
Moffatt’s translation reads: “The Logos was divine.”
The American Translation reads: “The Word was divine.”
The New Testament in An Improved Version, published in London, England, in 1808 “The Word was in the beginning, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.
German translators all seem to use 'a' in the verse
Böhmer: “It was tightly bound up with God, yes, itself of divine being.”
Stage: “The Word was itself of divine being.”
Menge: “And God (= of divine being) the Word was.” And by
Thimme: “And God of a sort the Word was.”
German scholar Ernst Haenchen (Das Johannesevangelium. Ein Kommentar). “In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and divine [of the category divinity] was the Logos.”
A New Translation, by Professor Charles Cutler Torrey (2nd ed., 1947),: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was god. (note that he differentiates with a capital and lowercase God/god indicating a recognition of the difference.)

The Coptic version of the bible is also a proof that 'a' should be included in our english translations. The Anchor Bible Dictionary says: “Since the [Septuagint] and the [Christian Greek Scriptures] were being translated into Coptic during the 3d century C.E., the Coptic version is based on [Greek manuscripts] which are significantly older than the vast majority of extant witnesses.”
The Sahidic Coptic translation uses an indefinite article with the word “god” in the final part of John 1:1. Thus, when rendered into modern English, the translation reads: “And the Word was a god.”

English translators 'choose' to leave out the 'a' in order to not confuse their trinity teaching.
The kings were under the law of God as written in the scriptures back then. It proves that Gods written law was the authority.

And the verse in Acts 17:11 shows that the spoken word was not blindly accepted by the Boreans. They examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true So Paul was preaching, they liked what they heard, but they checked that what he was preaching was backed up by scripture! They viewed the scriptures as the ultimate authority. Thanks for mentioning that verse it really proves the point im making.




there was no 'church' in the beginning and there was certainly no catholic church. There were the Apostles and the Disciples. They were the 'ek klesia' ek, meaning “out,” and ka·leʹo, meaning “call.” Hence, it pertains to a group of persons called out or called together. The word 'church' was not around then and it certainly did not mean the 'catholics' Pentecost 33 where holy spirit was poured out on 120 disciples gathered in a room in Jerusalem. It was Christians who were spirit annointed, not a 'church'



If Christ Jesus and his apostles did indeed establish the Roman Catholic Church, then why is not 1 word mentioned in the christian scriptures of the “Holy Father,” or a pope, a college of cardinals, archbishops, metropolitans, patriarchs, monsignors, right reverends, priests, abbots, monks and nuns?

You wont find anything of the kind because it wasnt until the roman ruler Constantine of the year 325 decided the debate on the trinity held at Nicea in favor of Athanasius and against Arius, and it was not until after the year 440 that the bishop of the Roman see, Leo I, became in fact the first pope. That is where your catholic church began. It certainly did not begin with Christ and his 12 Apostles. It is the apostacy that they warned christans about.

My words are blunt, but true

Was Ignatius one of the 12 Apostles?

And Constantine was of the 3rd century as i've mentioned above. If those words are trully from an Ignatius who lived at the time of the apostles, then why did the Apostles themselves not use the term 'catholic church' ? Seems a bit odd don't you think?

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I reply: The other translators have also used the 'a' in the verse were NOT written by Christians.. Christians teach "Jesus is God"!

Emphatic Diaglott was interpreted by A Jehovah Witness!
The New Testament in An Improved Version, published in London, England, in 1808 was written by a Unitarian!
Bree NOT one interpreter of the bible used the letter "A" in John 1:1 the JW.. NWT is not Christian! .. Christians have ALWAYS taught Jesus is God. Christians have always taught Jesus was Crucified!
Arius WAS a Christian until he was rejected by Christians for teaching; Jesus is not God!

Your words... English translators 'choose' to leave out the 'a' in order to not confuse their trinity teaching.
PROVING Christians have ALWAYS taught "Trinity"! Not one of the 60 plus translators uses the letter "a" in John 1:1

You said... And the verse in Acts 17:11 shows that the spoken word was not blindly accepted by the Boreans. They examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true So Paul was preaching, they liked what they heard, but they checked that what he was preaching was backed up by scripture! They viewed the scriptures as the ultimate authority. Thanks for mentioning that verse it really proves the point im making.

FACT: Paul was teaching something NOT found in their Old Testament! They NEEDED the CHURCH to arrive at TRUTH! Scriptures ALONE are NOT enough for them!
Those in Thessalonica rejected the TEACHING of the CHURCH for their Scriptures ALONE! They are less noble!
Bree YOUR SCRIPTURES say.. "Listen to the CHURCH!"
The CHURCH is NOT the Watch Tower.. It can ONLY be Church established on ROCK, the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church; Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to guide his Church into ALL TRUTH FOREVER GUIDING on Pentecost!
Paul was NOT a JW he was Christian!

Your Church teaches God failed to establish his Church, you think Jesus is a Fool building his church on sand!
Scriptures tell you Jesus is ALWAYS with his Church this means your church is a lie!

2ndpillar said:

I think you have implied that you look to the Roman Church doctrines over what you consider as "Scripture". As for the term "whore of Babylon", that was a term used by a Roman Catholic cleric named Luther, who was married into the church, as he married a nun. The term was also used by other church reformers, which places the Protestant churches as daughters of the daughter of Babylon. As for the term "antichrist" the religious sects consider the "another" "king" of Daniel 7:25 as the "antichrist". Looking at the historical references of Daniel 7, the another "king" would be Constantine, the establisher of the Roman "Christian" church whose reign is running out after time, times and half a time.

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2ndpillar The ONLY Church Jesus established ON Rock can only be the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church! NONE OTHER!
Constantine did NOT start the Church he made the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church established by Jesus...the Church of the world!

All man made churches MUST reject the scriptures to believe Jesus failed to establish his Church!

Dogknox20 said:

2ndpillar The ONLY Church Jesus established ON Rock can only be the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church! NONE OTHER!
Constantine did NOT start the Church he made the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church established by Jesus...the Church of the world!

All man made churches MUST reject the scriptures to believe Jesus failed to establish his Church!

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Your reference to the "rock", apparently comes from Matthew 16:18, whereas Yeshua called Simon bar Jonas "Petros", meaning small rock (to fulfill Isaiah 28:15-25), whereas he said the church would be built on Petras, meaning foundation stone, which would refer to "blessed are you because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father who is in heaven, which is to say, the Spirit of Revelation. The anointing, would be the rock the church would be built on, such as the testimony of Yeshua is the Spirit of Revelation/prophecy (Revelation 19:10). The Protestants, like the Catholics, have their own false notions of what is the rock. They think the "rock" is that "Thou are the Christ". Looking at Isaiah 28:15-18, the rock/stone is a "tested stone", and based around "justice" and "righteousness", whereas eventually, the "covenant with death", the false gospel of grace, "your pact with Sheol/death shall not stand". The emperor Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea to unify his empire. What came out of the Council were the false doctrine of the Trinity, and the instituting of the pagan feast of Astarte/Easter. Both fulfilling Daniel 7:25, whereas the "another" "king", would endeavor to change the law and the times. And yes, the Catholic church is the church of the world, as the leader of the world is Satan (John 14:30). As per Revelation 13:4, the beast, leader of the world, gets its authority from the dragon, and per Revelation 17:3-5, the "women", Babylon the Great, sets on the beast.

Dogknox20 said:

I reply: The other translators have also used the 'a' in the verse were NOT written by Christians.. Christians teach "Jesus is God"!

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Jesus Apostles taught that Jesus is Gods Son.

Matthew 16:
And Jesus came into the parts about Caesarea Philippi, and there he asked his disciples “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” 14 and they said “Some John the Baptist, and others Elijah; and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 Said he to them, “And who do you say I am?” 16 and Simon Peter answered “You are the Messiah, the son of the living God.”

You need to ask for the spirit of truth to be in you. If you can't see that Jesus is the 'son' of God as the Apostles of Jesus taught, then you need to ask why are allowing yourself to be blinded to this simple truth.

2ndpillar said:

Your reference to the "rock", apparently comes from Matthew 16:18, whereas Yeshua called Simon bar Jonas "Petros", meaning small rock (to fulfill Isaiah 28:15-25), whereas he said the church would be built on Petras, meaning foundation stone, which would refer to "blessed are you because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father who is in heaven, which is to say, the Spirit of Revelation. The anointing, would be the rock the church would be built on, such as the testimony of Yeshua is the Spirit of Revelation/prophecy (Revelation 19:10). The Protestants, like the Catholics, have their own false notions of what is the rock. They think the "rock" is that "Thou are the Christ". Looking at Isaiah 28:15-18, the rock/stone is a "tested stone", and based around "justice" and "righteousness", whereas eventually, the "covenant with death", the false gospel of grace, "your pact with Sheol/death shall not stand". The emperor Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea to unify his empire. What came out of the Council were the false doctrine of the Trinity, and the instituting of the pagan feast of Astarte/Easter. Both fulfilling Daniel 7:25, whereas the "another" "king", would endeavor to change the law and the times. And yes, the Catholic church is the church of the world, as the leader of the world is Satan (John 14:30). As per Revelation 13:4, the beast, leader of the world, gets its authority from the dragon, and per Revelation 17:3-5, the "women", Babylon the Great, sets on the beast.

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2ndpillar Thank you for your post... You are wrong on many counts!
First Jesus built his Church On ROCK! This means; Jesus' Church will never fail! To think otherwise (as you do) means you think Jesus is a Fool!

Matthew 7:24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock.
26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

The One and ONLY Church with roots back to Jesus can only be the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church!
Ignatius wrote.. “Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church.” This is the earliest known written record of the term “Catholic Church” (written around A.D. 107)

Early Christian sources testify to Jesus’s crucifixion.. Jesus died on a "CROSS" not on a Stake!

2ndpillar Christians have ALWAYS taught "Jesus is God" (Large G) This (below) is Scripture Prophesy: Arius WAS a Christian! Arius WAS AMONG Christians until Christians rejected him for his False Teaching! Arius was teaching "Jesus is not God"! Verse #2 tells you the Catholic Church; The Church Arius was AMONG is "The Way Of Truth"! THIS....

2ndpillar this prophesy cannot work in the reverse; Christians were NOT among Arius verse #2 tells you the Church Arius was kicked out of is "The Way Of Truth"!!
2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

“Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church.”

It's impossible for the Catholic Church to be the Whore. We are told that the heads “are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come.” If five of these kings had fallen in John’s day and one of them was still in existence, then the Whore must have existed in John’s day. Christian Rome and Vatican City did not. Pagan Rome did have a line of emperors, and the majority of commentators see this as the line of kings to which 17:10 refers. Five of these emperors are referred to as having already fallen, one as still reigning in John’s time, and another yet to come. Since Jerusalem had no such line of kings in the first century, this gives us evidence that the Beast (though not the Whore) is Rome. The Whore, and a number of facts are revealed which also show that she cannot be the Catholic Church. For one, she is depicted as a major center of international trade and commerce. Pagan Rome was indeed the hub of world commerce in its day, supported by its maritime trading empire around the Mediterranean, but Christian Rome is not the hub of world commerce.

“‘Rejoice over her, O heaven! Rejoice, saints and apostles and prophets! God has judged her for the way she treated you’. . . . In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints, and of all who have been killed on the earth” (18:20, 24). This shows that the Whore persecuted not just Christians, but apostles and prophets. Apostles existed only in the first century, since one of the requirements for being an apostle was seeing the risen Christ (1 Cor. 9:1). Prophets existed as a group only in the Old Testament and in the first century (Acts 11:27–28, 13:1, 15:32, 21:10).
Rome was not a Christian city at that time, and Vatican City did not even exist.

Bree said:

Jesus Apostles taught that Jesus is Gods Son.

Matthew 16:
And Jesus came into the parts about Caesarea Philippi, and there he asked his disciples “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” 14 and they said “Some John the Baptist, and others Elijah; and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 Said he to them, “And who do you say I am?” 16 and Simon Peter answered “You are the Messiah, the son of the living God.”

You need to ask for the spirit of truth to be in you. If you can't see that Jesus is the 'son' of God as the Apostles of Jesus taught, then you need to ask why are allowing yourself to be blinded to this simple truth.

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The Son of God MUST be God and in the case of Jesus MUST be MAN! The child of a Chicken is still a Chicken! A Cow gives birth, the baby is still a Cow! A cow would not give birth to a chicken!
The Son of God is God!
The Son of Mary is a Man! Jesus is the Man/God! 100% God and 100% Man as the Church Fathers teach!

Bree No father gains the title "Father" until a Mother gives birth!
Jesus is "God the Word" then when Mary gave birth Jesus became "God made Flesh"! God made flesh that LIVED AMONG US! God the WORD became God the Man!
When Mary gave birth God became "Father" but not before!

God is the Father of Jesus thus Jesus is his Son "The Son of God"! Jesus/WORD created all things! Jesus was with God ALWAYS!
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Bree I am an Adopted Son of God because I was Baptized into the body of Jesus! Jesus is the Son of God and so am I because I was IMMERSED into the Body of Jesus!

2ndpillar said:

I think you have implied that you look to the Roman Church doctrines over what you consider as "Scripture". As for the term "whore of Babylon", that was a term used by a Roman Catholic cleric named Luther, who was married into the church, as he married a nun. The term was also used by other church reformers, which places the Protestant churches as daughters of the daughter of Babylon. As for the term "antichrist" the religious sects consider the "another" "king" of Daniel 7:25 as the "antichrist". Looking at the historical references of Daniel 7, the another "king" would be Constantine, the establisher of the Roman "Christian" church whose reign is running out after time, times and half a time.

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2ndpillar Jesus established the ONLY TRUE CHURCH he built it on ROCK! Constantine accepted it as the Church of the state!

Dogknox20 said:

The Son of God MUST be God and in the case of Jesus MUST be MAN! The child of a Chicken is still a Chicken! A Cow gives birth, the baby is still a Cow! A cow would not give birth to a chicken!
The Son of God is God!
The Son of Mary is a Man! Jesus is the Man/God! 100% God and 100% Man as the Church Fathers teach!

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that is a convoluted and twisted tale

Use your own logic please and answer me this...

If a chicken gives birth to a chicken and a cow gives birth to a cow, what does a human give birth to?

Bree said:

If a chicken gives birth to a chicken and a cow gives birth to a cow, what does a human give birth to?

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The key to understanding where the Church's position on this comes from is to plug in the Greek concept of "essence":

essence
[ˈesəns]
NOUN

1. the intrinsic nature or indispensable quality of something, especially something abstract, that determines its character.

Remember that the NT was mainly written in Koine Greek whereas the use of this approach would have been largely understood then.

Dogknox20 said:

2ndpillar Thank you for your post... You are wrong on many counts!
First Jesus built his Church On ROCK! This means; Jesus' Church will never fail! To think otherwise (as you do) means you think Jesus is a Fool!

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I thought I made myself clear. Peter is not the "rock"/petros (small stone) on which the "church" is built on, as the Catholics believe. Yeshua being the "Christ" is not the rock the church is built on according to the Protestants. The "rock"/petra, is the foundational/tested stone (Isaiah 28:16), and is the "spirit of revelation", which revealed that Yeshua was the Christ to Peter. And what is the link pin of the spirit of revelation, that would be the testimony of Yeshua per Revelation 19:10, which is the Word of God, the Law and the prophets in which Yeshua was the manifestation of the Law and the prophets. Peter is just the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:16-17, who would not care, feed, or tend the sheep. Paul was simply one of the "shepherds" use to "pasture the flock (Gentile church) doomed for slaughter". The "church"/"saints", are those who keep the commandments and hold to the testimony of Yeshua (Revelation 14:12), are hidden from the "dragon"/devil (Revelation 12:17).

Dogknox20 said:

2ndpillar Jesus established the ONLY TRUE CHURCH he built it on ROCK! Constantine accepted it as the Church of the state!

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Constantine's Council of Nicaea simply established the Trinity Doctrine in 325 A.D. It was Theodosius in 380 A.D. who made the Nicene Trinity doctrine church the legitimate Roman state church. It was Paul, and his false gospel of grace, which is the underpinning of the Roman church, along with the "worthless shepherd" (Zechariah 11:17), Peter. Constantine didn't build a basilica to Yeshua, he built a pagan cross shaped basilica for both Peter and Paul, the foundation of his Roman/gentile church. Peter, the "stumbling block", and Paul, he "that commits lawlessness", will find their end of power along with Constantine's church, at the end of the age (Matthew 13:41 & Daniel 7:25-26 & Matthew 7:27)), which will be "in that day" (Isaiah 22:25), which is the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32), the day of judgment (Joel 3:1-2).

Bree said:

that is a convoluted and twisted tale

Use your own logic please and answer me this...

If a chicken gives birth to a chicken and a cow gives birth to a cow, what does a human give birth to?

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Bree Good question.. Simple answer...
Logic says.. The Son of God is God!
Logic says.. The Son of Mary is Man! Jesus is the Man God! Christians have ALWAYS taught; Jesus is God!

Arius was removed from among Christians when he taught; Jesus is not God!
Bree All who teach Jesus is NOT God are NOT Christian!
Bree Satan also rejects Jesus is God, Satan is Anti-Christian!

2ndpillar said:

I thought I made myself clear. Peter is not the "rock"/petros (small stone) on which the "church" is built on, as the Catholics believe. Yeshua being the "Christ" is not the rock the church is built on according to the Protestants. The "rock"/petra, is the foundational/tested stone (Isaiah 28:16), and is the "spirit of revelation", which revealed that Yeshua was the Christ to Peter. And what is the link pin of the spirit of revelation, that would be the testimony of Yeshua per Revelation 19:10, which is the Word of God, the Law and the prophets in which Yeshua was the manifestation of the Law and the prophets. Peter is just the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:16-17, who would not care, feed, or tend the sheep. Paul was simply one of the "shepherds" use to "pasture the flock (Gentile church) doomed for slaughter". The "church"/"saints", are those who keep the commandments and hold to the testimony of Yeshua (Revelation 14:12), are hidden from the "dragon"/devil (Revelation 12:17).

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2ndpillar FACT: Jesus built his CHURCH on ROCK... This is VERY CLEAR!
1 Corinthians 3:11
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

Hebrews 11:10
For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.

2ndpillar God is NOT a FOOL he built his Church on a foundation of "ROCK"! The Church Jesus established cannot fail it cannot fall! The ONLY CHURCH Jesus established is the Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.. None other!

Jesus made Peter his Shepherd the Man in CHARGE of God' flock!.. Peter strengthened the other Apostles! Peter spoke for Jesus in the Name of Jesus, with all the AUTHORITY of Jesus!
Peter is the Key Holder; Keys are a symbol of AUTHORUTY!
2ndpillar Jesus is ALWAYS WITH his Church, to the very end of the world: This means Jesus cannot be with your man made Church!