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Jehovah's Witness=Unbiblical Religion!

YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Spiderman said:
I have read the catechism of the Catholic church, and I have read the writings of many protestants, including founders of protestant denominations, and I know a bit about the man who founded the Jehovah's witness denomination as well.

But I can tell you from reading the catechism of the Catholic church, that it has every indication of being more inspired by the Holy Spirit , than any other text I have read, and the Catholic Church knows the scriptures better than any Protestant denomination.

The Bible says "listen to the church." The Bible does not say that everything must be tested by scripture, or that scripture is the final authority, or that God never changes his mind, or that God's word is limited to scripture.

God speaks through the church, and all kinds of people. Every word God speaks through a prophet , is the word of god, and most of the words of Jesus and the prophets, never even got written down.

The Catholic church does not approve of idolatry or pagan worship. Belief that holy souls connected to Jesus christ, ( and we are one body in christ, that we are connected to souls in heaven, and) that they pray for us, bless us, and are concerned about us, is actually biblical.

Even if it wasn't biblical, it is biblical to listen to the church. To believe that everything you believe has to come from the bible, is an unbiblical, man-made, incompatible, incompetent doctrine, that has no support from the scriptures.

People that listen to the Catholic church, are actually doing what Jesus Christ said to do.

Jesus said listen to the church, and "if they do not listen to the church, let them be to you as a pagan or a tax collector".

Jesus never said anything about reading the Bible. Jesus Christ left the early Christians with a church , not a bible.

The Catholic Church knows the Bible inside and out, far better than any Protestant denomination.

If you attend the Catholic mass every single day, (btw, the Catholic mass is celebrated every day), you will hear almost the entire scriptures read to you repeatedly.

Almost the entire catechism, the official teachings of the church, and the magisterium, are based off the scriptures.

When I converted to the Catholic church at age 21, I was encouraged to read the Bible all the time. The Catholic Church repeatedly encourages Catholics to read the scriptures. The Bible is a Catholic book!

Saint Jerome is one of the most important doctors of the Catholic church, one of the most important saints of the Catholic church, and fathers of the Catholic Church, and Saint Jerome says that "ignorance of scripture is ignorance of christ. "

The Catholic Church teaches that ignorance of scripture is ignorance of christ. Your accusation that the Catholic Church wants people to be ignorant of scriptures, is completely false!
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I was looking at the Catholic Church's explanation of sin. One reference is that Catholics are exhorted to go to confession at least once a month. Do you do that?
 
Spiderman

Spiderman

Veteran Member
YoursTrue said:
You need to speak clearly. You say you knew it was a parable. What was a parable? How you doing with drugs and medication these days? You're rambling, by the way, so I suggest you try to slow down and clear up which account you say you knew was a parable.
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Find, I edited that one sentence. You knew what I was talking about. The rest of the post was totally coherent.
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Spiderman said:
I was talking about the poor man and Lazarus and the rich man in hades. It was a parable. But if the dead didn't live on or suffer in hades, why would Christ give that parable?

The rest of what I shared with you is in Scripture. Plenty verses confirm the dead go on living after death.

Which part of what I said was incoherent? You just don't like and can't handle the truth? ;)
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You ramble on and say too many things in a fairly hysterical manner.
Since it was a parable, maybe -- just maybe -- Christ was giving an illustration, a parabolic illustration. Since it was a parable about a person named Lazarus, maybe -- just maybe -- there was no real person he was alluding to. Maybe, just maybe, poor Lazarus represented something. ? maybe? or do you think that Jesus was speaking of an actual person, not in a symbolic manner.
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Spiderman said:
Find, I edited that one sentence. You knew what I was talking about. The rest of the post was totally coherent.
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Spiderman, in order to have a decent, coherent and cohesive conversation I suggest you slow down and stick to one or two points at a time. So going back to the poor man Lazarus, not the brother of Mary and Martha, you agree, do you, that it was an illustration, or -- parable??
 
Spiderman

Spiderman

Veteran Member
YoursTrue said:
You ramble on and say too many things in a fairly hysterical manner.
Since it was a parable, maybe -- just maybe -- Christ was giving an illustration, a parabolic illustration. Since it was a parable about a person named Lazarus, maybe -- just maybe -- there was no real person he was alluding to. Maybe, just maybe, poor Lazarus represented something. ? maybe? or do you think that Jesus was speaking of an actual person, not in a symbolic manner.
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I have read some writers say the parable was based off a true story. I personally don't know.
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Spiderman said:
I have read some writers say the parable was based off a true story. I personally don't know.
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lolol...you got me laughing here -- based off a true story -- lolol, ok. Sorry, it's late and I'm closing up. Later..
 
Spiderman

Spiderman

Veteran Member
YoursTrue said:
Spiderman, in order to have a decent, coherent and cohesive conversation I suggest you slow down and stick to one or two points at a time. So going back to the poor man Lazarus, not the brother of Mary and Martha, you agree, do you, that it was an illustration, or -- parable??
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It's possible it was just a parable.

But why would Jesus talk of some one burning in hades if that never happens? He had a tongue and felt flames from heat too.

But he wouldn't die

And he wanted to warn family about that place of torment.

Why would Jesus lead people to believe in a place of torment, that doesn't exist? That is deceptive!
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Oh, @Spiderman, before I go tonight, Jesus is the truth. He said so, I believe him. The parable represented a real situation. But it represented it. Lazarus represented something. The rich man represented something. Hades represented something. Hopefully we can discuss this later.
 
Spiderman

Spiderman

Veteran Member
YoursTrue said:
lolol...you got me laughing here -- based off a true story -- lolol, ok. Sorry, it's late and I'm closing up. Later..
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Well, I'm glad I got you to laugh. :) Some one in real life today , told me I should be a comedian. You and he might be onto something about my calling and vocation in life!. :D

Have a good night! Don't let the bed bugs bite! :p
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Eyes to See said:
"Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified."-Matthew 6:9. The true religion would put God's name above all else, sanctifying it before the people. Scripture says:

"For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”-Romans 10:13-15.

Which group of people are united in praising God's name Jehovah, and are witnessing about it to the nations? Powerful authorities in the Church have tried to hide God's name, removing it from their translations, replacing it with the titles, LORD and GOD, and even forbidding the use of it.
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That passage in Romans 10 that you quote is actually about Jesus, those who call on the name of Jesus. If you go through the chapter you should be able to see that. In reality it is a passage that applies to Jesus what is said in the OT. "Anyone who calls on the name of YHWH will be saved".
In the NT we see that Jesus is YHWH and we call on His name, the one whom Jesus sent so that we could put our trust in Him.
1Cor 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,
2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:
3 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.


Romans 10:1 Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
5 Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.” 6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

Romans 9:33 as it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense; and the one who believes in Him will never be put to shame." (See !sa 28:16)
 
Spiderman

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Brian2 said:
That passage in Romans 10 that you quote is actually about Jesus, those who call on the name of Jesus. If you go through the chapter you should be able to see that. In reality it is a passage that applies to Jesus what is said in the OT. "Anyone who calls on the name of YHWH will be saved".
In the NT we see that Jesus is YHWH and we call on His name, the one whom Jesus sent so that we could put our trust in Him.
1Cor 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,
2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:
3 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.


Romans 10:1 Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
5 Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.” 6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

Romans 9:33 as it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense; and the one who believes in Him will never be put to shame." (See !sa 28:16)
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This ∆
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
YoursTrue said:
Oh, @Spiderman, before I go tonight, Jesus is the truth. He said so, I believe him. The parable represented a real situation. But it represented it. Lazarus represented something. The rich man represented something. Hades represented something. Hopefully we can discuss this later.
Click to expand...

The parable in Luke 16, if it is a parable, represents what was the common belief in Jesus time about Hades. This is not hell, a place of eternal torment, but is the place our souls go after death since they are still alive (Matt 10:28).
In Luke 16 Jesus does not deny it's existence or deny that humans have a soul that survives the death of the body.
The denial of the existence of spirit seems to be a belief of Sadducees which the JWs also believe and Jesus does not seem to agree with it.
 
muhammad_isa

muhammad_isa

Well-Known Member
Brian2 said:
The denial of the existence of spirit seems to be a belief of Sadducees which the JWs also believe and Jesus does not seem to agree with it.
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I agree with you, there..
However, in many other ways, the JW's have a good understanding of the Bible as a whole, imo.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Eyes to See said:
The Bible canon was confirmed a couple of hundred years before the Catholic Church came into existence.
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That is false. The Catholic Church was and is an extension of the Church going back to the Apostles and Jesus, but along the way it went through a couple of name changes, from what is believed to be "the Way", to "Christian" [2nd century] to "Catholic" [3rd century]. In the 2nd century, both "catholic" [meaning universal] and "orthodox" [meaning truth], were used as descriptors. When the Great Schism occurred many centuries later, the breakoff church called itself the "Orthodox Church", as it remains today.
 
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