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A Single Human Family -- Will We Ever Get There?

Can we humans ever finally discover that, isolated as we are on a tiny world in a vast cosmos, are o

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 31.3%
  • No

    Votes: 11 68.8%

  • Total voters
    16

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
I just saw @Revoltingest's thread on China backing Russia (although slightly covertly). Rather than answering it, I thought I would take this opportunity to ask a question of my own -- one that, as a Humanist, has been at the forefront of my thought for decades.

And that question is this: "Can we humans ever finally discover that, isolated as we are on a tiny world in a vast cosmos, are one family, and that our continued survival is becoming more and more dependent on whether we can learn to live together, rather than continually try to win some special place over the rest of humanity?"

Or are we doomed to continue trying to outdo each other until, finally and ultimately, none of us is left, and the cockroaches get their turn at world domination?
There should at least be the Don't Know option, given that many of us will be undecided on this. That would be my position, and so because I don't know how all our conflicting beliefs can be resolved and as to how we are not so homogeneous as a species, even if our basic morality might be reasonably in line with others. We have the time drag - some peoples apparently being more progressive than others (but undoubtedly disputed) - and often where this is related to religious beliefs. That might dissolve over time of course. But we have the capability to destroy ourselves at the moment and it could even get worse, given the current conflict. Perhaps an external threat will see us united but even then I doubt it - for the first of such, at least - and it might take one or two catastrophes before we do decide to become one people on this planet if we are to survive. I don't have much optimism though.
 
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oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I just saw @Revoltingest's thread on China backing Russia (although slightly covertly). Rather than answering it, I thought I would take this opportunity to ask a question of my own -- one that, as a Humanist, has been at the forefront of my thought for decades.

And that question is this: "Can we humans ever finally discover that, isolated as we are on a tiny world in a vast cosmos, are one family, and that our continued survival is becoming more and more dependent on whether we can learn to live together, rather than continually try to win some special place over the rest of humanity?"

Or are we doomed to continue trying to outdo each other until, finally and ultimately, none of us is left, and the cockroaches get their turn at world domination?

I had to vote 'No'.
Where I live some neighbours have disputes, sometimes very aggressive ones.
Where I live some people slander others, steal, burgle, rob, assault and cheat.

That is what Mr Putin has been doing, only on a massively more huge scale.
When all my neighbours are freed from crime, hatred and bigotry there might be a chance for my town, my county, my country, the UK, Europe and the World.

I'm sad to answer so..........
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
How spiritual, ethical, and moral are those things you describe?
They raise large questions about ethics and morality, and I'd guess they're about as spiritual as the next religion. Which seems to underline my point: as far as the ethics of decency go, if you don't have them in you then you won't get them from religion ─ as witness the enormous number of churchmen involved in the matters I mentioned. And if you have the ethics of decency in you, you don't need religion ─ though of course you're free to be as religious as you want.
Religious people can be fanatical, unethical and such, and atheists can be moral and ethical. No one has a monopoly on ethical behavior, but religion can be put to good use.
Yes it can. There are a lot of ethical and decent people who are religious. My point is that you don't have to be religious to have the ethics of decency, and that if you don't have the ethics of decency, you'll be going to religion for reasons other than those.
7% of wars I found out recently are started for religious reasons. Did Hitler kill for religious reasons?
He was a politician, and a megalomaniac, and very effective at both. He offered a vision of a SuperGermany after WW1 and during the Depression. There's some evidence his obsessive hatred of Jews pre-existed his political life, and he lived in an age where Jews, especially the poorer classes, tended to be socially defined as well. It's not clear to me where where the line is between civil and religious in that situation.
Religion is like anything else. It can be used for good or evil. Science can be used for good or evil. God help us when science is used for perverted purposes.
I gave you a list of events where religion is and was used for perverted purposes.
We need the ethics that religion can bring to guide science from perverting itself.
The churches, as I said, have been on trial for the last thirty years having their dirty sexual linen washed in public. In Canada they're looking into first nations deaths in institutions for children, many of which were run by religions, and finding horrible things.

If you're a good person by nature, or you seek to be a good person, the right church people might help you, but they're only one of your options. As you said, religion, like anything else, can be used for good or ill.
 
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Geoff-Allen

Resident megalomaniac
I just saw @Revoltingest's thread on China backing Russia (although slightly covertly). Rather than answering it, I thought I would take this opportunity to ask a question of my own -- one that, as a Humanist, has been at the forefront of my thought for decades.

And that question is this: "Can we humans ever finally discover that, isolated as we are on a tiny world in a vast cosmos, are one family, and that our continued survival is becoming more and more dependent on whether we can learn to live together, rather than continually try to win some special place over the rest of humanity?"

Or are we doomed to continue trying to outdo each other until, finally and ultimately, none of us is left, and the cockroaches get their turn at world domination?

It's a nice idea in theory and I do try to be optimistic but ...

Dogmatic thinking is far too common on this planet and always has been. Dogma is driven by fear and I have NO idea how to open human minds that have been closed due to fear.

But keep on hoping - you may prove me wrong! I suppose anything IS possible in theory.

All the best!

:)
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
It does look that way. However, war is so destructive today that we must stop doing that, or no one will survive.
I expect survivors....miserable survivors.
So I agree on the wisdom of avoiding war.
Alas, Putin & 58% of Russians disagree.
And China is just getting started.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
While I understand people being pessimistic given the social sewage assailing our "nostrils", I'm a longer term optimist. From some reckoning in India, we are just the end of a 432,000 year dark age (Kali yuga) and just barely starting to enter a golden age (Satyuga).

All the major revealed religions have an expectation of this happening although each sees the structure in terms of their own religion.

Like all births, there is pain. But I see that where war used to be celebrated, now it's reviled. Where there used to be acceptance of discrimination, I'm better than you, now it's more and more opposed.

If I'm still in the body in 10 or 20 years, I expect things to be a lot better than today.
I have high hopes
& low expectations.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
We also need ethics, morality, and spirituality. We also need to respect our differences.
Spirituality is a problem in Russia.
Leaders & citizens have expressed their feeling
that Ukraine is Russian, & feel that it must be
returned at any cost. Such are their ethics &
morals.
Gotta those feelings under control, because
they easily & often trump ethics & morality.
What we need is to value non-aggression.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Recorded history does. And by necessity, pre-history paints only the vaguest of pictures at all. But I attended the Stonehenge exhibition at the British Museum this week, and was struck by one feature of the human story it appeared to tell; that war, in Europe anyway, appears to have become endemic to human society about 3,500 years ago.

Human beings have been around a lot longer than that, but competition for resources presumably became more intense around that time. So if we could, perhaps through collective use of technology in the service of the many and not just the privileged few, find a way to make best use of the resources necessary to our collective survival, perhaps we can relearn how to live without war.
I'll wager that war has been with humans from the
beginning. We can observe chimpanzees waging
war over territory.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
I'll wager that war has been with humans from the
beginning. We can observe chimpanzees waging
war over territory.


I imagine fighting has been with us forever. Organised, industrialised warfare on the epic scale may be more recent. I’m not sure we should assume it’s endemic to our nature, or always has been.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I imagine fighting has been with us forever. Organised, industrialised warfare on the epic scale may be more recent. I’m not sure we should assume it’s endemic to our nature, or always has been.
It appears to be endemic.
But that needn't prevent us from someday eschewing war.
As always, I have high hopes, but low expectations.
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Jesus never said He was coming to earth to reign. Jesus said that His work was finished here and He was no more in the world.
(John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11)

Jesus said that His kingdom was not of this world and Jesus disclaimed being a king when asked.
(John 18:36, John 18:37)

Jesus never said He was going bring peace to this world.

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
You need to read the rest of the book.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
That's the usual picture I get from many people. I believe after we devastate each other for a while, who knows how long, we come together of our own free will.

Well, if we don't, maybe the Earth's future will look more like Planet of the Apes. One of their highest laws was "Ape must not kill Ape."

I mean, if human societies had a law like that, then we'd probably be able to...umm...well...
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
I am not sure that I could speak for the human race as a whole, but I do feel that there are many people alive today that I will never find common ground with.

I used to try to find common ground with everyone, but after a few abusive relationships I realized that some people are just never going to value cooperation. They want domination, and I cannot persuade them out of it any more than they could persuade me to want to bully others.
But you know, you could at least identify the "common ground" as the distance you'd like to keep between you. If you do that, then you still have no need to abuse or kill them.
 
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