Do you speak or pray in tongues?

beckysoup61 said:

So how do you determine if it's of the 'occult' kind or not? Trust your judgement?

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There are several indications of something being of the Occult. Generally things are quite mystic and associated with the New Age. If things seem to "New Agey" then watch out. Basically, trust your gut. You'll more than likely know if you encounter something that is of the Occult.

*Paul* said:

Well i guess it's in whose name you do it in if you are praying to the God of the bible then it would not be occultic. Also if the interpretation of it is not contradictory to Gods word, that would definatly not be from the Holy SPirit, therefore would be of the flesh or a decieving spirit. My point was that is not in itself a proof of Godly spirituality and has been a bridge (not that this concerns you) in ecumenism.

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How are tongues accurately interpreted, and who can do it.

Terrywoodenpic said:

How are tongues accurately interpreted, and who can do it.

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This I don't know. Perhaps someone else can answer your question.

Holly said:

The reason that some do not is because they do not believe in it. You can't very easily do something that you don't have faith in I don't think.

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Not necessarily. We believe in it, just not that what you describe as speaking or praying in tongues is actually what the Bible is talking about. We also have grave doubts about gifts of God that can be 'taught' as you yourself described, or that come about automatically after a specific event. The fact that Pentecostal style glossolalia is, as you rightly pointed out, a not uncommon ecstatic phenomenon in non-Christian religions is also a major issue. Why would, for instance, a pagan shaman be given a charism of the Holy Spirit? At the very least this suggests that there are other possible sources for the phenomenon than the one Pentecostals invariably seem to assume.

We don't then, refrain from speaking in tongues because we just don't believe in it but rather because we believe it to be a symptom of plani or prelest (Greek and Russian words respectively), or spiritual deception. Such occurs when one does not, or lacks the wisdom to, practice discernment and test if the spirits are of God and is considered very dangerous. Some of us are far more strongly opposed to the phenomenon than your post seems to suppose. This does not mean that we don't believe in the gift of tongues, though. As I've related before on this forum, it still occurs in our Church, it just isn't babble, it's people speaking languages never learnt or being understood in a language they are not speaking. It's also rare.

James

JamesThePersian said:

Not necessarily. We believe in it, just not that what you describe as speaking or praying in tongues is actually what the Bible is talking about. We also have grave doubts about gifts of God that can be 'taught' as you yourself described, or that come about automatically after a specific event. The fact that Pentecostal style glossolalia is, as you rightly pointed out, a not uncommon ecstatic phenomenon in non-Christian religions is also a major issue. Why would, for instance, a pagan shaman be given a charism of the Holy Spirit? At the very least this suggests that there are other possible sources for the phenomenon than the one Pentecostals invariably seem to assume.

We don't then, refrain from speaking in tongues because we just don't believe in it but rather because we believe it to be a symptom of plani or prelest (Greek and Russian words respectively), or spiritual deception. Such occurs when one does not, or lacks the wisdom to, practice discernment and test if the spirits are of God and is considered very dangerous. Some of us are far more strongly opposed to the phenomenon than your post seems to suppose.

James

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Well I would say that the non-Christian religions that practice glossolalia are not practicing the gift of the Holy Spirit but instead something else is happening.

Holly said:

Well I would say that the non-Christian religions that practice glossolalia are not practicing the gift of the Holy Spirit but instead something else is happening.

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That's the point (I edited my post above to clarify what we do believe is the gift of tongues by the way). If you acept that glossolalia can be caused by something else (presumably demons) other than the Holy Spirit, then you really need to be very careful. We do believe in the gifts, but we also believe that God gives them to people for His purposes, not ours and that if you go seeking signs and wonders you're likely to find them, just not necessarily from God.

James

JamesThePersian said:

That's the point (I edited my post above to clarify what we do believe is the gift of tongues by the way). If you acept that glossolalia can be caused by something else (presumably demons) other than the Holy Spirit, then you really need to be very careful. We do believe in the gifts, but we also believe that God gives them to people for His purposes, not ours and that if you go seeking signs and wonders you're likely to find them, just not necessarily from God.

James

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Ah okay. Thanks for your input.

tongues in the occult have a very distinct sound, or , well , not neccessarily the occult--most occultist dont use tongues (unless you mean enochian-but those are learned usually), what i am talking about is the tongues of evil spirits--which are very very distinguishable from other tongues. very serpentine i guess you could say, often times spoken in reverse english

beckysoup61 said:

So how do you determine if it's of the 'occult' kind or not? Trust your judgement?

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If it's done in the name of Jesus Christ, directed to God, it's probably not occult.

Speaking in tounges flows from the Holy Spirit. If it's done in private, and the heart is open to God (which is the purpose of prayer), then God can work on us no matter what crazy or stupid thing we are doing. When I speak like this in prayer, it is usually in times of great stress and opens me up more completely to the presence of God. It's not a tool, but an outpouring of the Spirit that affects different people in different ways.

Sorry for reviving this topic but I think it is necessary to clarify something, though admitadly I am no expert. The speaking of tongues is never taught. A pastor can direct and guide someone to receive the gift but generally it is received through prayer and asking for it (Matt 7:7-8).

When I get a chance I will post some more in depth info so that it may answer questions about what exactly the Pentecostal belief on this matter is.

Terrywoodenpic said:

How are tongues accurately interpreted, and who can do it.

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This is rarely seen in churches these days, but 'tongues' are interpreted by someone who has been given the gift of interpretation.

Who would I pray to that is not me?

Speaking in tongues has no spiritual value. More often than not, it's a product of a weak mind fascinated by something greater than itself. (Monkey see, monkey do)

The mind, i.e. "Satan" is a liar. It collects bits and pieces of information and sews them together into a coat of belief, which it wears with pride.

But in reality, the emperor has no clothes.



x

1 Corinthians 14-4
He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

1 Corinthians 14-12
So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church.

1 Corinthians 14-28
If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.

Me:
There are far greater gifts than speaking in tongues. This is about the lowest gift you can receive. If no one can translate what you are saying and you continue to speak in public, you are just showing off.

There are many Pentecostal and Holiness churches where I live. Sadly enough, most of the people who go there cannot even read the scriptures I just quoted.
They are good people, just ignorant in my opinion.

Acts 2:17
Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

Some of these back woods churches handle poisonous snakes to prove their faith. They release these snakes and they crawl among the congregation.

xexon said:

Who would I pray to that is not me?

Speaking in tongues has no spiritual value. More often than not, it's a product of a weak mind fascinated by something greater than itself. (Monkey see, monkey do)

The mind, i.e. "Satan" is a liar. It collects bits and pieces of information and sews them together into a coat of belief, which it wears with pride.

But in reality, the emperor has no clothes.



x

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I wish I could frubal you more often.

That was so well-said... as usual.

Never have. never will. See the following:

Speaking in Tongues:http://www.franklinchurchofchrist.com/sermons/date/2006/htm/20060424PM.htm
Miraculous Gifts of the Spirit:http://www.franklinchurchofchrist.com/sermons/date/2003/htm/20031130AM.htm

Yes English But seriously the bible clearly states that there are "types" of speaking in tongues one being for the church the other being for self edification etc. To answer the above question though I'll throw a question back. Why did the apostles need an interpreter in the congregation if everyone was supposed to understand the tongue in their own language?

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The apostles spoke in tongues that were already known to some in the world. It was a language. Like, I suppose it would be like someone who had never learned Russian beginnig to speak Russian quite fluently during a service. On the day of Penetecost, the disciples spoke in tongues, and each person heard it in their own language. I'm sure you read it on the site, but I will repeat that by "tongues" they were talking about a language, not gibberish that makes no sense and has no interpreter.

Everyone was the interepeter in a sense, if they all understood the "tongue" or language. Today when people claim to speak in tongues, it cannot be interpreted and no one knows what they are saying.

It does happen, albeit rarely now (unfortunately), but once again depends.

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Shouldn't there ALWAYS be an interpreter present?

BTW some of what the links you posted say, kind of makes me wonder whether the writer has actually experienced someone speaking in tongues.

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Yes. I'm sure both of the writers in the links have, as they are both very educated and have experienced several differant kinds of services, if I'm not mistaken.

smoky*mountain*starlight said:

The apostles spoke in tongues that were already known to some in the world. It was a language. Like, I suppose it would be like someone who had never learned Russian beginnig to speak Russian quite fluently during a service. On the day of Penetecost, the disciples spoke in tongues, and each person heard it in their own language.

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Mark states that those who believe will speak in new tongues not those that are already on earth.
On the day of Pentecost not everyone actually understood them as some as Acts 2:13 states mocked them about being drunk.

Today when people claim to speak in tongues, it cannot be interpreted and no one knows what they are saying.

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According to who? How do you know? Just because it is an unknown earthly tongue that can't be intepreted by linguist's does not mean it can't be interpreted. There are times where the interpretation is ment for the whole church in which a person will interpret it openly to the church, however I'm sure God can also allow a message in tongues to be intepreted by an indvidual for that individual. Does the bible not say that if God cares for the tiniest of sparrows how much more does he care for you?

Also as I've said before speaking in tongues does not always mean other people have to understand it. Paul states that "For anyone who speaks in tongues does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understand him; he utters mysteries with his spirit" This passage shows that one can speak in tongues as praise to God and that men don't need to understand it.

Shouldn't there ALWAYS be an interpreter present?

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No not necissarily. And besides how does the person speaking in tongues know that there is an intepreter present. They don't, they act in faith believing that the word they have for the people is from God and that he will provide an interpreter.

Yes. I'm sure both of the writers in the links have, as they are both very educated and have experienced several differant kinds of services, if I'm not mistaken.

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Ok, maybe the churches in America are different to Australia, however what people see in the modern church is far different than what it used to be in the church 10-15 years ago. I know a church here in Australia who used to see speaking in tongues and interpretaion regually, but the pastor thought it was pointless and wasted service time so every time the speaking in tongues would start he would get the musicians to drown it out with music, very sad.

One last thing. I do believe that speaking in tongues should not be focused on more than other gifts as they should be done just as often. This is the main issue Paul had with the Corinthians. They were focussing more on one gift and not much on the other gifts and fruits.

I do not speak or pray in "tongues". However, I am an ex-Pentecostal and I spoke in tongues as a Pentecostal. In fact, it continued to happen involuntarily after my de-conversion. A couple of months ago I felt like the words were about to surface again, but I stifled them. It can be hard to stop, and some people who have been out of Pentecostalism for years still speak in tongues when they're anxious or stressed. For a long time becoming emotional induced tongues-speaking for me, but that has now ceased as well.

James

From my perspective, the Lord gives people the gift of tongues to accomplish a particular purpose. I don't see any purpose whatsoever in a person suddenly starting to speak a language that was unfamiliar to him unless his doing so would serve to accomplish something. For this reason, the notion of praying in tongues just doesn't sit well with me. If I want to speak to God, I certainly want to be able to know what I'm saying, and since the conversation is just between the two of us, if I started speaking in an unfamiliar tongue, I'd probably think I'd had a stroke or something!

I sometimes speak in spanish, especially when I'm at work.