• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

I just want to sin!!!

MyM

MyM

Well-Known Member
ElishaElijah said:
You do have a lot of questions, easily answered by the Scriptures. If you want to pick 1 go for it but too many to answer by this forum. Would be pages.
How about we go for this…
What does the Bible teach about how a person can receive Eternal Life? What are the marks that confirm that a person has in fact received Eternal Life?
What does Islam teach compared to the Bible on these 2 questions.
Click to expand...

1. I was taught that you must accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior. To believe in him and be saved. I was baptised as well.

2, In Islam, it is so eloquent. God created mankind and jinn to worship him. He tests because he can and does...all throughout history...like Noah and his people, Moses and his people, David and his, etc. etc. etc.
To attain eternal life Allah says to worship him and do good works and stay away from evil doings and obey him and his last messenger pbuh.

“A certain ruler asked him: ‘Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?’
‘Why do you call me good?’ Jesus answered. ‘No one is good – except God alone.’”
Luke 18:18-19 – NIV

Jesus says nothing about a god sacrifice.

“The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world.
And he said to him, ‘I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to.
So if you worship me, it will all be yours.’
Jesus answered, ‘It is written: “Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.”’”
Luke 4:5-8 – NIV

“One of the teachers of the law came and noticed them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, ‘Of all the commandments, which is the most important?’
The most important one,’ answered Jesus, ‘is this: “Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.” etc....Mark 12:28-

“All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Matthew 22:39 – NIV

It's right there in the Bible. No where does he say he is God or worship him. He says exactly the opposite of what the Christians preach.
 
muhammad_isa

muhammad_isa

Well-Known Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
..If God knows in advance how you will choose, you do not have free will..
Click to expand...
in advance? What do you mean by that?
G-d sees all simultaneously .. just like we perceive the other 3 dimensions.
We are the ones effectively trapped in a "time bubble" .. not G-d.
G-d is not subject to measured time .. He is its owner.
 
Windwalker

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Policy said:
I am ever-so-often told by Christians who find out that I do not believe that a god exists, that “You are denying God because you just want to sin.”
Click to expand...
Sounds to me as if they are projecting onto you what they want to do hidden behind their own doubts. Since you come out and follow through on those doubts, surely it must be because you are wanting to do those things they secretly want to do and feel guilt for feeling. That's how that works.

But the thing the really scares me is when they say, "If you don't believe in God, what keeps you from just killing other people?" Yikes! Are they saying that their belief in God is the only thing that holds them back from murder?? Shouldn't we all be afraid of them?
 
C

Clara Tea

Well-Known Member
muhammad_isa said:
He could .. but He didn't .. we are not perfect.

Now, you ask why G-d didn't make us perfect gods?
Impossible. We either are perfect gods or we are not.

How can one create an infinite, omniscient god?
..makes no sense. :)
Click to expand...
How can an omniscient God wonder how?
 
Sheldon

Sheldon

Veteran Member
Policy said:
I am ever-so-often told by Christians who find out that I do not believe that a god exists, that “You are denying God because you just want to sin.” This has always struck me as a bizarre thing to say, as I cannot think of anything that a Christian would consider a sin that I would have needed to leave Christianity to do.

I mean there are lots of good Christians out there doing great things, and most of you are perfectly decent people who I would probably enjoy having as coworkers and neighbors. But seriously folks, you all sin. Every last one of you. You sin inadvertently. You sin impulsively. You sin with premeditation. You covet coworkers, neighbors, friends and random strangers. You covet their stuff and their bodies. Unless you are asexual or (possibly) greysexual, you commit adultery in your hearts, and roughly 25% of you commit adultery in your pants as a married person.

Christian employees steal quarters from their coworker’s desks to buy cokes and they steal office supplies from their employers. Christian employers don’t pay a living wage, and then call the employee lazy when they refuse to work extra hours (bearing false witness). Sometimes the employer even fires them; and while there is no ‘Thou shalt not be a jerk’ commandment, the golden rule takes a beating several times a day/

You leave your parents in nursing homes when you could move them in with you. (C’mon folks! Honor your mother and father.)

You do illegal drugs. You take the lord’s name in vain. You get divorced.

And yet, You are saved by your acceptance of Jesus Christ into your heart as your own personal Lord and Saviour. Hallelujah and Amen. Sing it, Sister!

"I've been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb,
saved and sanctified I am.
All my sins are washed away,
I've been redeemed."​

“unchastity, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, licentiousness, envy, blasphemy, arrogance, folly”

So, exactly why would I need to leave Christianity to do anything? All the “sins” I might ever commit, I could commit as a Christian. And be saved.
Click to expand...

Even were this rather common ad hominem fallacy true of course, it would not remotely represent evidence for a deity, this seems to escape those who make the claim.
 
MyM

MyM

Well-Known Member
Wandering Monk said:
Blame the victim. GOD IS OMPOTENT according to monotheists. There is NOTHING he cannot do, except overlook breaches of his laws for some reason. Is he really omnipotent then?

Why couldn't he have created humans without the ability to sin, like Himself?
Click to expand...

In Islam, There's no reason to question Allah as to why he does things. He's your creator and you do as he wishes.

“And your Lord creates whatsoever He wills and chooses, no choice have they (in any matter). Glorified is Allah, and exalted above all that they associate (as partners with Him).
And your Lord knows what their breasts conceal, and what they reveal.
And He is Allah; Laa ilaaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). all praises and thanks be to Him (both) in the first (i.e. in this world) and in the last (i.e.in the Hereafter). And for Him is the Decision, and to Him shall you (all) be returned”
al-Qasas 28:68-70

He doesn't overlook anything. He claims he will give rewards, he swears by it and he claims he will punish and he swears by it. If you feel you want to go up against him, go ahead. But be warned, on the day of judgement, in Islam, you will be standing in front of your creator and regret will come all over you. :)
 
Sheldon

Sheldon

Veteran Member
Shadow Wolf said:
True, but in the general sense Christianity does repress much, and it is best to not repress most of it.
Click to expand...
Indeed, and the very fact it lumps perfectly harmless natural behaviour under the heading of sin, with egregiously pernicious behaviours like rape and murder is very telling. I also find it almost impossible to accept the idea Christianity considers those actions sinful, after even a cursory reading of the bible.
 
MyM

MyM

Well-Known Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
There is so much contradiction in those few sentences, it is amazing. I do not need to test those I know will fail, nor those I know will pass. That's foolishness. If God knows in advance how you will choose, you do not have free will, because then you could freely change your mind, and God would have been wrong.

I get that logic and reason don't play a big role in religion, but surely there's room for a little!
Click to expand...


Nope, in Islam, he already knows, he's giving you the choice. He's not making you choose the wrong he let you do that on your own. You didn't have to choose the wrong. He just knows the outcome.

You want to blame everythin on God because you think you need an explanation? In Islam, we believe in humbleness and understanding. Afterall, Allah did say that the Quran is for the understanding :)
 
ElishaElijah

ElishaElijah

Return
MyM said:
“A certain ruler asked him: ‘Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?’
‘Why do you call me good?’ Jesus answered. ‘No one is good – except God alone.’”
Luke 18:18-19 – NIV
Click to expand...
Is Jesus good? The answer is yes
Is Jesus worshipped? The answer is yes
Jesus says before Abraham was I AM, is He eternal? Answer is yes

Jesus didn’t use the exact words I am God, He let people come to their own conclusions, which they did. His questions reveal that like when He asked Peter:
“When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:13-17‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Jesus forgave sins, who can forgive sins but God alone?
Jesus demonstrated He is in fact God in the flesh.

If you say He was just a man, fine but you cannot say he was a good man or messenger or prophet or a good teacher, or from God because if He wasn’t God and received worship that only God deserves He would be a blasphemer and false prophet.

That’s the conclusion:
*Either Jesus Christ is God who became man.
Or
*He was a blasphemer and false prophet
 
MyM

MyM

Well-Known Member
Clara Tea said:
Jesus was Jewish. Jews are known for guilt trips. The bible made you think that everyone is sinful (many ways to sin).

Once people believe that they are sinful, they feel that they need a redeemer. This converts them to Christianity and it keeps them from leaving the religion.

Couple the guilt with physical violence of the Dark Ages (torture and execution), and the Christian religion had reasons to grow.

Christians say that Jesus died for our sins. That almost sounds as though it was Jesus's idea to die. Apparently it was not. After all, Jesus asked God "why hath thou foresaken me?" So, it must have been God's idea to crucify Jesus, since God was able to stop the crucifixion. Am I to believe that all-powerful God was not powerful enough to stop a few Roman soldiers? Wasn't that the same God that created the entire universe and all of its complexity (example: life)?

What about the miracles of Jesus...curing blindness....couldn't Jesus have blinded Roman soldiers if they tried to hurt him? Where were the powers of Jesus?

Some Christians say that "why hath thou foresaken me?" is from psalm 21 (old testament), which they say was a prediction of the death of Jesus. John 20:25 is said to be a description of Jesus being nailed to a cross (before he was nailed). Some argue that Romans either tied or nailed their victims, but the bible is rather specific about nailing. Archaeological evidence of at least one person being nailed is available (scratch marks on ankle bone of someone other than Jesus).

Why would an all-powerful God require a blood sacrifice (crucifixion)? Couldn't God merely forgive sins? Are the flaws of man the flaws of his creator? Did God make us wrong?

Was the crucifixion of Jesus punishment of mankind (depriving mankind of a savior)?

When Abraham was ordered by God to kill his son, Isaac, was that a test of his loyalty (as the bible says), or morality?

Isn't it immoral to kill someone else to further our own goals of eternal bliss in heaven?

What if we want to rob a bank, shoot bank guards, to get money illegally, and that would further our goals of retiring early and moving to Tahiti? Isn't that like murdering someone else to get what we want? Should we murder our sons or murder our savior in order to get eternal bliss in heaven?
Click to expand...

tbh, I don't know what exactly you want out of this text

btw, in Islam, we don't believe it was issac that abraham was to sacrifice. The bible itself lies about Abraham because Ismiel was already born before issac.

In Islam, God didn't make us wrong. God loves it for us to repent to him. He is the king of forgiveness. :) His mercy is but just 1% on this earth and the other 99% on the day of judgement.
 
Sheldon

Sheldon

Veteran Member
loverofhumanity said:
But consider this. Christ says to love one another so a good sincere and honest Christian obeys Him and treats people with kindness, compassion, generosity and love. Where is the truth in the argument that by obeying Jesus to love one another would cause destructive behaviour?
Click to expand...

I have seen Christians on this site make that claim, then espouse homophobic bigotry, as one example. The bible is a book of vague and even contradictory claims, open to subjective interpretation, which is probably why there over 45000 separate denominations globally. Yet every Christian claims to know what the deity they imagine exists wants, same with every Muslim and the Quran.

As an atheist my primary concern is to avoid and as far as possible prevent unnecessary suffering. I don't need to love my neighbour for that, in fact I can detest them, hate their guts, but still recognise they deserve the same rights as anyone else.
 
Windwalker

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Policy said:
I'm sorry. But that is not the totality of what Jesus said. As for instance, He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And since, in Christianity, Jesus is God, everything that God said in the old testament is what Jesus said.
Click to expand...
Except that passage is generally not accepted as authentic. Here's an interesting article explaining why: Should Mark 16:9-20 be in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org
 
MyM

MyM

Well-Known Member
ElishaElijah said:
Is Jesus good? The answer is yes
Is Jesus worshipped? The answer is yes
Jesus says before Abraham was I AM, is He eternal? Answer is yes

Jesus didn’t use the exact words I am God, He let people come to their own conclusions, which they did. His questions reveal that like when He asked Peter:
“When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:13-17‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Jesus forgave sins, who can forgive sins but God alone?
Jesus demonstrated He is in fact God in the flesh.

If you say He was just a man, fine but you cannot say he was a good man or messenger or prophet or a good teacher, or from God because if He wasn’t God and received worship that only God deserves He would be a blasphemer and false prophet.

That’s the conclusion:
*Either Jesus Christ is God who became man.
Or
*He was a blasphemer and false prophet
Click to expand...


again, men wrote those. I am quoting JESUS from the Bible. In Islam, we believe that Allah knows everythin that was going to happen before hand. He knows all.

and who said he is either jesus christ is god who became god or he was a blasphemer and false prophet....who to say that it has to be this or that...seriously, it means nothing because Jesus didn't say it. If he didn't say it, why attribute it to Jesus!!! In Islam, we are not allowed to put our words in and make something up. It would put us in hellfire. Especially about one of the mightiest messengers of God.

In Islam, we believe in Jesus, we believe that he is the Messieh, we believe that he performed miracles but they do not make him God.
 
ElishaElijah

ElishaElijah

Return
MyM said:
again, men wrote those. I am quoting JESUS from the Bible. In Islam, we believe that Allah knows everythin that was going to happen before hand. He knows all.

and who said he is either jesus christ is god who became god or he was a blasphemer and false prophet....who to say that it has to be this or that...seriously, it means nothing because Jesus didn't say it. If he didn't say it, why attribute it to Jesus!!! In Islam, we are not allowed to put our words in and make something up. It would put us in hellfire. Especially about one of the mightiest messengers of God.

In Islam, we believe in Jesus, we believe that he is the Messieh, we believe that he performed miracles but they do not make him God.
Click to expand...

So you believe it’s just fine to be God’s Prophet and receive worship from men?
Again, Using the Scripture you quoted: Is
Jesus good, yes or no?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top