Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
A coherent argument or absence of one will not cut it, realization only. Have you realized Nirvana yet Martin?
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reincarnation/afterlife without God?
- Thread starter Eddi
- Start date
Martin
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No. Have you?
And what does Buddhist Nirvana have to do with the need for a God, which is the point at hand? Are you arguing that Buddhism is a theist religion?
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Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
If when your realize Nirvana, you will have realized God, and when a Christian has realized God, they will have realized Nirvana. There is only one oneness, call it Allah, Brahman, Nirvana, Tao, One Mind, whatever, it is not the name, but that on the other side that is not in words, not conceptual.
Martin
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That's your personal belief, but it appears off-topic to this discussion (see the OP) .
The question remains, how is a God necessary to the working of karma and reincarnation? You can look at reincarnation as a natural, cyclical process, so why does it need a God?
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Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Not belief, understanding, there is a difference. God is omnipresent, all that exists is God. The idea that anything whatsoever happens without God is silly. It is like asking if there could be stars, or dark energy, or space, or births without God.
Now if you do not understand what God is, or disbelieve God exists, then perhaps the question is not for you..
Martin
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You're just restating your personal beliefs, and ignoring the OP question.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
I don't believe in beliefs, reality is not belief. A belief is a mental state that is meant to represent something real, but that something, even if it is real, exists independently of the belief, and in no way depends on anyone believing or disbelieving in it. A theist may believe in God, an atheist believes there is no God, whether God exists or not does not depend on either of their beliefs, you must know.
I'm not ignoring the OP question, I am saying God is present always everywhere, reincarnations, weddings, supernovas, etc.. You need to know whether God exists and what the reality represented by the term God is, to answer the question. If you don't know if God exists, then you can't know the answer to the the question.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
In order to properly respond to your question, what is your understanding wrt the reality represented by the concept God?
Martin
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Please just provide a coherent response to the OP question.
Why do you think reincarnation requires the presence of a God, practically speaking?
To phrase the question differently, why can't reincarnation be a "stand-alone" phenomenon?
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
For the same reason wind requires the presence of the atmosphere. Just as the atmosphere is required for the wind to blow, the omnipresent reality called God is that in which reincarnation is taking place.
Muffled
Jesus in me
So you are saying that the dust continues to be dust. Is that an axiom ie self evident?
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe that is not axiomatic. I do believe the Bible supports the concept.
Martin
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The weather doesn't require God. It's a natural system. Same with the seasons.
There are non-theistic religions that believe in reincarnation.
You still haven't explained how reincarnation depends on a God. All you've done is repeated your personal beliefs.
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I am staying that the 1st law of thermodynamics applies
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
The metaphor I used for the reincarnation, wind, depending on the existence of God, atmosphere, works if you understood it, look up the word panetheism, God is all there is. And reincarnation is a part of the theist religion Hinduism.
Martin
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You still haven't explained how reincation would depend on some version of God.
You assume your version of God exists, then you fill in the blanks. It's a nonsensical approach.
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Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
The metaphor using the atmosphere as representing the omnipresent God, and wind events occurring within it as reincarnation events, works in that it shows there wind is an integral of the atmosphere. Like wise, God, look up the word panetheism, comprises all that is, the manifested and the unmanifested, and as such reincarnation events are an integral of it. Reincarnation happens in the theist religion Hinduism.
Martin
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Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Just that I am pleased to have been of assistance.