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Question to Atheists: Living for here and now or living for a place with God in the next.

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
what is the sense you mentioned?
Science, like everyone else, uses metaphysical concepts ─ 'topic neutral terms', as Armstrong puts it ─ such as those in his list: "cause, class, property, relation, quality, kind, resemblance, quantity, number, substance, fact, truth, law of nature, power, and others". And as you saw, he adds, "It is these sorts of notions, I suggest, that metaphysics strives to give a systematic account of."
What do you mean "supernatural sense of metaphysics"? and what is your epistemology?
My nearest dictionary gives "metaphysical: [...] 4. incorporeal, supernatural" and "metaphysics: [...] 2. The philosophical study of the nature of reality, concerned with such questions as the existence of God, the external world, &c".

What epistemological aspect of this are you referring to?[/QUOTE]
 
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Nimos

Well-Known Member
What causes people to do immoral things? Well. Some things are mentioned in the Qur'an. Like some people worship their own desire/ego as God. Some worship their wealth as God.

No. Muslims are not considered more moral. If you read the Quran it is speaking to righteous people. This word is Thaqwaa. Thats not necessarily Muslims.

Try and understand something. If Islam is the right path, and you understand it as the right path, you embrace it. Its not about benefits alone. There are some who look purely for benefits. The Qur'an is not only teaching to live for benefits alone. That is a self worship.
So if I understand what you say correctly, it doesn't matter if you are Christian, atheist or Buddhist according to the Quran, that sounds a lot like what the Bahais are talking about as well?
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
So if I understand what you say correctly, it doesn't matter if you are Christian, atheist or Buddhist according to the Quran, that sounds a lot like what the Bahais are talking about as well?

Not really. The Bahai's are dictating that every religion is true and that Bahaullah is the God's manifestation that all religions are speaking about.

Islam does not make any claim like that.

Just read my post again. I never said "it doesnt matter".

Thanks.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
Not really. The Bahai's are dictating that every religion is true and that Bahaullah is the God's manifestation that all religions are speaking about.

Islam does not make any claim like that.

Just read my post again. I never said "it doesnt matter".

Thanks.
But if everyone can be moral and righteous without being a Muslim, then I don't see why it would matter, whether you are following the Quran or not?

I can't remember if it was you or someone else, I asked if there were any benefits to being a Muslims over not being? Meaning does God favor Muslims over others, and if he doesn't, then why would it matter what you believe anyway?
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
But if everyone can be moral and righteous without being a Muslim, then I don't see why it would matter, whether you are following the Quran or not?

I think I already answered that question. But I am sure you will have your own refutation so no problem.

I can't remember if it was you or someone else, I asked if there were any benefits to being a Muslims over not being? Meaning does God favor Muslims over others, and if he doesn't, then why would it matter what you believe anyway?

I think I gave you an answer for that as well. And you did ask me.

See, in the Islamic theology, there is no indication that you are salvaged purely because you are a Muslim. But, if Islam is the truth, there is always a better way, which is following the truth.

If I find the same post I will have to cut and paste it here because I already answered you.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
But if everyone can be moral and righteous without being a Muslim, then I don't see why it would matter, whether you are following the Quran or not?

I can't remember if it was you or someone else, I asked if there were any benefits to being a Muslims over not being? Meaning does God favor Muslims over others, and if he doesn't, then why would it matter what you believe anyway?

Salam

Quran says "O You who believe, fear God and seek unto him an intermediate approach"

God provides the means to guard our souls and ascend towards him, it's his guidance and God is the true intercessor in all that.

I think what firedragon is saying a Muslim might not necessarily follow the proper means and guidance.

However, he is not saying it's okay to not follow the guidance of God.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
Salam

Quran says "O You who believe, fear God and seek unto him an intermediate approach"

God provides the means to guard our souls and ascend towards him, it's his guidance and God is the true intercessor in all that.

I think what firedragon is saying a Muslim might not necessarily follow the proper means and guidance.

However, he is not saying it's okay to not follow the guidance of God.
I think I understand what you are saying, but I don't think it makes a lot of sense when added together.

If everyone can be moral and righteous whether they follow the Quran or not, then it should also be of no concern to God. As an atheist or Christian for that matter etc., We don't follow the Quran and If God thought that we did something wrong, then clearly we wouldn't be moral in his eyes.

So I don't see the argument of why anyone ought to follow the Quran then? I get the impression that there is no benefit for doing it in the eyes of God.

Hell from what I understand is something real in Islam, however a quick google seem to have some different views of who goes there, some say that it is mostly for unbelievers and some that this is not true and that it is for people that have killed innocents etc. I don't know what is right, I haven't read the Quran. But based on what you are writing I assume you lean to the latter believe that it is those that do immoral things, like killing innocents etc.

If that is the case, and this is even a view you share, where do Christians, atheists, Hindus go?
 
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