What do you think of Democracy as a form of Government?

Winston Churchill has said:

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

He also said:
“It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”


Plato has said in the Republic that the only form of government worse than Democracy is Tyranny.



What do you think?

I agree; like every other form of Government, Democracy is ideal as an ideal; add the human element, and it stinks. Maybe it stinks less than other political systems though.

The idea, like I have said, is a good one - but I would ask everyone who replies tp this thread - How many laws passed are in accordance with your wishes?

To me, Democracy is a thinly veiled Dictatorship.

Dunno. Pure democracy rarely, if ever, gets tried, being rather impractical. But there are things like republics, which are somewhat democratic. And as ideals go, it's a good one, and I do think self-government is a positive thing, over all. It will go wrong periodically, like any other human endeavor, but I think it's a good thing to try to achieve.

standing_on_one_foot said:

Dunno. Pure democracy rarely, if ever, gets tried, being rather impractical. But there are things like republics, which are somewhat democratic. And as ideals go, it's a good one, and I do think self-government is a positive thing, over all. It will go wrong periodically, like any other human endeavor, but I think it's a good thing to try to achieve.

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If you were able to pick a form of government to live under (whether it is practiced or not), which would you pick?

I think the thing that makes our democracy work better than others is the fact that we have a constitution. I think it's the best system in the world even though it has it's faults as times. It offers the individule person the most freedoms and any system that keeps the government as far removed from my life is the one for me.

Democracy fails on being capitalist, yet not being communist democracy as Christ was showing….You see if we had a state we all cared about, as well as being able to choose our self’s, our own destiny, then that would work.

Yet at present we have capitalist democracy, as has been since Roman times with elected committee, being by its own members?

Within that there is always greed and private motives to serve, that then make the people discontent.

So if we had democracy, where it was more like a kingdom, or communist state without tyranny and an elected committee by the peoples council, for final say of what the people actually are saying, then people would be allot happier I feel.

Also if this was done online where we had adequate voting, for all peoples whom wish to have a say, to have a vote. Then that would be democracy in action, which at present, I don’t think, anyone think it is.

comprehend said:

...Plato has said in the Republic that the only form of government worse than Democracy is Tyranny.



What do you think?

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:clap I think this is a key reason America's Founding Fathers sought to avoid the 'tyranny of the majority' in crafting the Constitution to make a America a republic and not a democracy.

Democracy works fine in small populations where people are fine with minority opinions being quashed. You have 4 people who are trying to decide where to eat lunch. Take a vote, majority rules. Tie...flip a coin.

While everyone wants to be heard, with the more serious business of governing democracy is unworkable. We've seen how little Congress gets accomplished with 435 Reps and 100 Senators bickering, now try to imagine larger numbers.:run: Of course...if Congress couldn't decide anything, maybe they wouldn't waste our money like they currently do.

I guess 2 old saying I would trudge out related to democracy and governing are Two heads are better than one. and Too many cooks spoil the broth. The law of diminishing returns also factors in as there's a balance between having enough opinions to find a good one versus having so many that chaos reigns.

I hope to eventually see the day where we progress beyond democracy and capitalism, but at the moment they're the best we've come up with. (Well, Western socialism is the next step).

I think one thing I agree with conservatives on is the size of the government. There is just way too many levels and sidekicks and two-party tyranny.

I think representative democracy is the way to go.

I live in California, which veers quite often into the realm of direct democracy. Every time there's an election, voters are asked to vote on a bunch of propositions. I consider myself pretty well informed and concerned about political issues, and it's hard for me to wade through all the legalese and statements of support/opposition to these things and reach a conclusion I can be confident in. And I fear the average voter is easily swayed by whoever creates the scariest television ad.

GeneCosta said:

I hope to eventually see the day where we progress beyond democracy and capitalism, but at the moment they're the best we've come up with. (Well, Western socialism is the next step).

I think one thing I agree with conservatives on is the size of the government. There is just way too many levels and sidekicks and two-party tyranny.

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so you think socialism is a better form of government? Would communism be the step after?

comprehend said:

Plato has said in the Republic that the only form of government worse than Democracy is Tyranny.

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comprehend said:

What do you think?

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Nope. Democracy and capitalism aren’t great, but when one considers the unreasonable alternatives currently available, there really is no other choice for a thinking person to make.

*desperately resists the urge to "let it rip" in regards to other forms of so-called "government" currently existing on the planet* :cover:

CaptainXeroid said:

I think this is a key reason America's Founding Fathers sought to avoid the 'tyranny of the majority' in crafting the Constitution to make a America a republic and not a democracy.

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Careful there. Politicians do not want people to know our country was supposed to be a Republic and not a Democracy. You might get yourself in trouble for spreading the truth...

Democracy works fine in small populations where people are fine with minority opinions being quashed. You have 4 people who are trying to decide where to eat lunch. Take a vote, majority rules. Tie...flip a coin.

Click to expand...

While everyone wants to be heard, with the more serious business of governing democracy is unworkable. We've seen how little Congress gets accomplished with 435 Reps and 100 Senators bickering, now try to imagine larger numbers. Of course...if Congress couldn't decide anything, maybe they wouldn't waste our money like they currently do.

I guess 2 old saying I would trudge out related to democracy and governing are Two heads are better than one. and Too many cooks spoil the broth. The law of diminishing returns also factors in as there's a balance between having enough opinions to find a good one versus having so many that chaos reigns.

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I think that with democracies, it quickly becomes indistinguishable from regular socialism. We have state schools, welfare, medicare, government subsidized housing, etc etc etc. As soon as you let the average citizen vote, they vote to have somebody else's stuff. Dumb.

I believe that democratic government is far from an ideal solution but it is far and above any other option available. What is required is a level of pride and participation from the general population. How many people in America have served the public? How many have served in the military? Held a public office? Volunteered to clean a park? Even attended a caucus? Hell, the last caucus I went to in the '04 presedential election I was the only person from my precinct who showed up. That level of participation is abhorrent. People will b***c about what's wrong with government and make no effort to affect any change.

Don't like the way it's going? Get out there and do something. Find a way to participate for the public. Our form of government is not here to serve your every need. You need to devote some of your time in service of our Government. For the people by the people. I'm sure everyone has heard "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." (or something along those lines). Truer words were never spoken.

This wasn't meant to be a rant and I apologize.:sorry1: But this is an ever increasing problem with our population and I would sure like to see engery expended exploring ways that will help the general public participate rather than b***h about the way it is now.

Off my soapbox.... again I apologize.:sorry1:

madcap said:

I think representative democracy is the way to go.

I live in California, which veers quite often into the realm of direct democracy. Every time there's an election, voters are asked to vote on a bunch of propositions. I consider myself pretty well informed and concerned about political issues, and it's hard for me to wade through all the legalese and statements of support/opposition to these things and reach a conclusion I can be confident in. And I fear the average voter is easily swayed by whoever creates the scariest television ad.

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yeah, that direct democracy works out great in California until the propositions get to one of your judges who just throws it out the window saying they don't give a rats behind what the voters voted for....

It isn't really a democracy when you have some schmuck who gets to play king at the end.

comprehend said:

so you think socialism is a better form of government? Would communism be the step after?

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I wouldn't call it socialism per say. More like a Jedi-style redistribution of wealth.

Democracy is a good idea, i just wonder when we'll try it out.

Green Gaia said:

It's not perfect, but it's the best humans have come up with so far.

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I agree; but that doesn't say a lot for us Humans.

There should be a distinction between the dogma of "democracy" which is an ideal and apart of our whole secular ideology, and simply constitutional government. Constitutional government has been a really progressive development in the last three centuries. It has been so successful that it became idealized and a part of our whole secular ideological belief system. But no system of government is forever and for everyone. When society weakens and social problems esculate---as they have done---governments reflects that decline as well. They become inefficient and wasteful.


It has surely been in decline. After the collapse of the Soviet System in the early 1990s, the dogma of democracy staged a rally and it entered even in social science theory that we were entering an epoch of world democracy that would actually “end history.” Our secular-political ideology has come a long way down since then!


It is understandable that people are stressed out by the mayhem in Iraq. At great expense in lives and treasure, we end up there with a nation slipping into civil war. In “bringing democracy to Afghanistan,” we end up with a narco-nation run mostly by war lords and with the Taliban coming back. How depressing it is to see our democratic ideals turn out to create only miserable failures.


Most in the group here think of Christians in terms of liberal Christians or those who do not take the Bible as the inerrant word of god and who refuse to believe all or most of its miracles. So, it is hard for them to realize that those who are radical believers of the old faith are not really secularists. To them, the secular is the profane. They speak of it because it is for them to use in their faith, their mission.


So, it should come as no surprise that President Bush and his cohorts deliberately undermanned the forces that invaded Iraq---and waited too long to spend the billions needed to rebuild it and Afghanistan---all with the full intention of both countries degenerating into a democratic dogma fiasco and hence, reduce secularism as a competitor to the faith of Christ.